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Very Dangerous Territory


Boston Guy
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Hello, everyone.

 

I have been following the thread entitled " Anyone know an escort named Allan?" with great interest and have been expecting a post from "Allan" just like the one that just showed up.

 

The thread was begun by Hutchie, who posted a question asking if anyone knew Allan or had experience with him. Allan evidently responded heatedly to Hutchie who then posted a second message on the thread. Hooboy encouraged him to post the message from Allan, but wisely (in my opinion) rescinded that recommendation and said that he had been wrong to make it. We eventually have the post from Allan who expresses great concern about having his screen name/net identity posted on a public board.

 

I fear that we are on a very slippery slope and I have felt this for quite some time. And I think it would be very easy indeed for this online community to slide down that slippery slope and end up someplace not very attractive at all.

 

There are escorts and then there are escorts. There are masseurs and then there are masseurs.

 

Some escorts and some masseurs practice their trade on a full-time basis; they market themselves publicly and gladly accept free publicity. However, many others are guys who are out to make a few extra bucks for some reason -- school, boredom, to pay a few bills, whatever.

 

They are not what we might think of as "professional" escorts or masseurs. They are not seeking publicity, even if they might have an AOL profile that they use from time to time.

 

I know some guys who fall into this category and they would be mortified to have their friends or family find out what they do. I don't happen to think that there's anything wrong with it or shameful, but it's not my opinion that counts.

 

Rather, society clearly frowns on escorting in a big way and these young men do not want to be stigmatized in the they would be if their secret came out. One can argue, of course, that they simply should not escort, then. Or they should get over it. Or any one of a number of things.

 

But that really isn't much of our business. It's up to these guys to make up their minds about what they want to do. And I'm not sure that we collectively have the right to expose them to vast public scrutiny, which is exactly what we should assume happens as soon as information about them is posted on this board.

 

I understand that the goal of this board is to provide reviews of escorts and some might argue that I am arguing against its very raison d'etre. But I don't think so. Instead, I think I am arguing for a collective sensibility that recognizes certain privacy rights as being fundamental to all of us, including the escorts.

 

There are many escorts who gladly seek reviews here and who want the publicity and who even, in some instances, seem to have posted their own reviews. I know of escorts who have urged their clients to review them.

 

And perhaps some of my unease comes from my natural inclination not to "kiss and tell." I tend to think of sexual activities -- even those of the paid-for variety -- as being between two people who should respect each other's privacy. And I find myself uncomfortable at times with certain reviews that tell me way more than I ever want to know.

 

I do not come here for pornographic reasons, but many of the reviews could be excerpted and placed within the context of a pornographic novel. I am not a prude by an reasonable standard and I am not offended by what I read. But I am often uncomfortable as I read some of these reviews and put myself in the position of the escort who will also read them -- and I find myself sometimes especially uncomfortable when I read a review of an escort I know personally -- it sometime seems like I am eavesdropping or peeping in a window that I really should not be looking into. And, yes, that makes me uncomfortable.

 

I guess I think that there is a place for reviews and, sometimes, a need. For those escorts, especially, who rip people off, a place like this is a good forum to let everyone know what's going on. But when we starting getting more and more into the personal lives of the escorts and exact sexual escapades, I become a little less comfortable and have wondered how far down that slippery slope we should slide.

 

And now, with Allan's objection to having become unwillingly the subject of a thread on the board, I find myself wondering if we have just slipped down another couple of feet.

 

Sometimes, in a big city, where people are crowded together, they maintain a sense of privacy and dignity by studiously ignoring some of the things going on around them. In essence, they carve out some private space. In some ways, the Net is like a very crowded city and I do not think that we should be prepared to offer up any individual at any time to be stripped of their privacy for our personal needs or desires.

 

And that is what it comes down to here -- a desire to make sure that we going to have a good time before we plunk down our $150 or $200 by soliciting information from like-minded people. It sounds so good in theory, rather like being sure before you buy that refrigerator.

 

But we are on that slippery slope and I for one am very uncomfortable and more than a little concerned about where we go from here and what kind of standards we should try to set for ourselves in terms of respecting or violating other men's privacy.

 

And I will state for the record that I do not believe that we have the right -- or should try to seize the right -- to publicly expose, discuss and critique every young guy who simply creates an AOL escort screen profile or in some other way solicits a little business on the side. Even on the Internet, there must be some standards of privacy that we all respect or we will all pay a very high price indeed.

 

Allan's response wasn't written in the most elegant style and it contained a few typing and spelling errors, a couple of errors in syntax -- it would be easy to dismiss it. But that would be a mistake and I urge everyone to read it carefully and to think more than once or twice about the very serious issues he has raised for us to think about.

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Guest Hutchie

Thanks for your message. After I did the initial question, I did what the guy asked and came on and ask the webmaster to delete it. It has not been deleted, so what more can I do?

 

Al

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>>Some escorts and some masseurs practice their trade on a full-time basis; they market themselves publicly and gladly accept free publicity. However, many others are guys who are out to make a few extra bucks for some reason -- school, boredom, to pay a few bills, whatever.<<

 

I couldn't agree more with your entire post, Boston Guy. In particular though, your comments quoted above are pertinent. I've met many, many guys who are out to "make a few extra bucks", students, what ever (these guys are a LOT of fun). I've also met pornstars, and other escorts who advertise heavily via the web, magazines, etc. The only reviews (2) I have ever posted on this website have been for 1) a pornstar type and 2) a heavily advertised type.

 

Posting a review, comments, criticisms, etc. of a guy who isn't really "out there" with his services is simply outrageous. I won't even tell other friends, online acquaintances, or whoever of these guys, I feel like we have a private, personal arrangement. A guy who hangs out in the escortm4m chat room on AOL every single day...he's different than the hungry college student who chats you up in a regular chat room, or meets you in a bar, then agrees to a mutual arrangement. Escorts so often advertise discretion, shouldn't we offer them at least that, and some confidentiality back? Isn't that what WE want?

 

Finally, this "will he do this" or "will he do that" nonsense. I've often gotten a chuckle when an escort is reviewed here as "top only", Or "he doesn't kiss", when I know I've been doing different with him. I'm no great stud, believe me! But I believe very strongly in mutual respect, and honesty when dealing with these gentlemen. I find that if I offer that respect upfront, the sweeter my eventual rewards. These guys are human beings first, people! Treat them like human beings, and enjoy.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but let's think twice before posting some of these reviews! Giving out a person's real name, their phone number (unless it's advertised), etc. just isn't right, not without that person's permission.

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Guest Billyboy

A politician picks his job knowing with the job, he is making himself a public figure.

 

A movie star goes into the business knowing they will probably lose most of their privacy.

 

An escort publishes an ad or website on the internet or in a local rag, and then is worried that someone might see them on a bulletin board? NO!

 

How many guys are named Allan? No pictures are posted on this site unless the escort has put his picture on the web elsewhere or has given permission to have it put up.

 

Fact is, this site GIVES escorts so much more business than any other site I know. What is the gripe? If you want to be a Politician, be a politician. A movie star, be it. An escort, then be an escort. But you know that there are certain things that come with every choice.

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I respect your opinion and believe that you are a good example of someone who both benefits from this site as well as contributes to it.

 

But you are also an example of a very "out" escort and your goals and modus operandi are not shared by all other escorts, and most especially not by the younger part-timers who are often in school.

 

I do not believe that your or I or any or all of the others here have the right to assume or assign one set of rules to be applied to everyone based only upon our own wants or needs. In a truly civilized society, there is room -- indeed need -- for variety and diversity of opinion and action. And an even greater need for certain spheres of privacy that allow us to live relatively free and private lives in the midst of so many.

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Guest Billyboy

I'm glad you stated to me the way you did. I see your point, and admit that it is a very good one. I guess I am just tired of the "moral labels" put on escorts.

 

I am proud of what I do and enjoy it very much. But your point is very well made and I agree. Thanks Boston Guy

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For what it's worth, I believe that you can only edit your messages for a limited amount of time; and, as for reviews, whenever I've left something out, or hit a wrong pre-selected answer, Hooboy has made the appropriate change after I've emailed him.

 

As for the young, rarely advertised escorts (I mean grad students) discussed in this thread, I've found that they're generally very eager to autograph the polaroids I take of them after a sesh. Now class, "What was the better part of valor again?"

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Guest Hutchie

For the record

 

For the record, I did not do a review of this person. I haven't even met him. I corresponded with him by email.

 

All I did was ask the question if anyone had ever used his services. He had posted ads on the CFS bulletin boards for both Georgia and Tennessee. That's where I found his initial advertisement.

 

I have asked Hooboy to remove the posts, but it seems that he has not yet chosen to do so.

 

Hutch

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Guest bunglepok

Thank you, Boston Guy, for being so eloquent and conscientious.

 

The problem is that this website regards clients as sacrosanct but escorts as suspects. That's a double standard that results in all kinds of unfairness to escorts. That's the slippery slope.

 

For example, the policy seems to be that clients deserve privacy but escorts don't. That's illogical. Sure, escorts are engaged in commerce. But so are clients when they hire escorts. Since that commercial transaction is a two-way street, clients should not monopolize privacy.

 

Most escorts try to work anonymously, using aliases and hiding their faces in photos. Only a small minority of escorts are completely open about their identity. The fact that most escorts advertise doesn't mean they surrender anonymity. There is no basis for treating most escorts as public figures.

 

I know this website tries to offer consumer reviews about escorts, especially to prevent rip-offs. But that concern is deteriorating into a self-righteous vigilantism targeting escorts. Vigilantes tend to neglect the rights of those they presume to watch.

 

The premise of this site that clients are sacrosanct while escorts are suspects promotes contempt for escorts. That poisons the atmosphere between escorts and clients.

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Guest brianrj

I'm obviously very thick, bunglepok, I still don't get it. Please explain how, in this specific instance, the escort's identity is known? Allan from Knoxville, TN with email [email protected].

 

Allan - a very common name from a fairly large metropolitan area. I would have assumed it was an alias had the escort himself not said it was his real name.

 

His email address is [email protected]. If that is his public email address - the one his family sees - then I'd say the secret might be out. If not, then it appears it is the one he intended to be seen in his part time profession.

 

We don't know his last name, address or phone number. We don't have a description or a picture.

 

It doesn't seem like anyone disagrees that an escorts privacy should be protected, but it just doesn't appear that any such thing happened here.

 

(Not to even get into the discussion of what the chances are that his family and friends are even going to be looking at this web site.)

 

Well, the steel plate in my skull is coming out tomorrow - I'll re-read all this again and maybe then I'll understand.

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Bungle,

 

I'm sorry, but you are for once wrong.

 

The escort has the advantage here. I have stated that from the beginning.

 

An escort who advertises is subject to review. A client is not up for review or public discussion and I will go out of my way to protect their identity. Their email addresses are erased from my computer - with the exception of a few problem people.

 

If I get a review of an escort who I cannot find advertised, I contact him to make sure he is an escort and not a victim of some disgruntled miscreant. Whenever I get a negative review of an escort, I spend my own money and a lot of time to call him and get his side of the story.

 

And if you're familiar with "shooting the messenger," I cannot count the number of times I've been screamed at by an escort who hears his review read back to him and he recognizes that it is indeed him and he did indeed rip off the customer.

 

Just check out the review for Darren in New York who had the audacity to tell me that anyone who was on the internet was a geek - or something to that effect.

 

The top notch escorts have a private forum here where they can discuss problems they have.

 

HooBoy

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I find that an interesting take on a thread that has 14 entries -- far fewer than many here. And especially so where the issue under discussion is as fundamental as the privacy rights of everyone here, both clients and escorts alike, and how we can achieve what we are trying to achieve while respecting those rights.

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Guest bunglepok

Hooboy:

 

Many, if not, most comments about escorts in this site appear in the forums. The forums are an ideal place for any "disgruntled miscreant," to use your phrase, to engage in character assassination. There is no effort to contact the escorts discussed in forums to get a rebuttal.

 

Comments about escorts posted in forums are often extremely personal and disparaging. One discussion in a forum was about whether a particular escort had crabs. Another thread was about whether a certain escort barebacks. The forums allow anyone to say anything about any escort with impunity.

 

That's unfair since few escorts read this site and, therefore, most cannot respond. Those one-sided negative comments about escorts are also promoting a contempt for escorts.

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Bungle,

 

I thought you were talking about the main site, not this forum.

 

I wrestled with making this moderated or leaving it open and decided to leave it open. And I rarely take down threads or messages. Some days I don't even come in here because I just don't have time for the pain.

 

It's up to you guys to police this. This is the Wild Wild West here as are any open forums. It's the nature of the beast.

 

If enough people don't like it,I can always shut it down or make it moderated - but then I'd get blasted for being a twink-loving bleached-blonde Buick Roadmaster careening down the Al Gore Information Superhighway pushing Margaret Hamilton and her flying monkey's onto people much smarter than I.

 

Excuse me while I kiss the sky and make another call to find out if it's true that Justin Timberlake won't give head.

 

HooBoy

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Hooboy -

 

I don't believe that the appropriate solution is any action at all by you.

 

Rather, what I've tried to suggest is that it might be good to try to find some kind of community consensus about what kinds of things seem good to post on the forums and what kinds of things might be infringing too much on someone else's privacy.

 

There are a fair number of people participating here and most seem bright and conscientious. Privacy issues affect all of us equally and are cropping up everywhere on the Internet. This is just one more place where it might be good to look at the issue instead of turning a blind eye.

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HooBoy,

 

I do see your dilemma and personally think you do about as good as anyone could. It ain't easy being the boss!

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