Condoms and Prep

[+ GregM]

Wow. I wish I could retract the defence of you I mounted in this thread.

 

Did you read any of the articles that @KennF linked to? In terms of HIV transmission it’s safer to have sex with a poz person who is on meds and undetectable than with somebody who thinks they are negative (but could well be wrong). The guys who think they are negative “could potentially infect you with a fatal disease.” Moreover you seem to assume that all clients are HIV negative and/or care about the eacort’s HIV status, if you think poz escorts should not be in the business. On both counts you are incorrect.

 

Please go and educate yourself instead of spreading such stigmatising nonsense.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ GregM]

There are both poz clients and poz hookers. I've seen many poz clients because of the stigma that @youngboldone is spreading. It's unfortunate and unfair. Just because one is poz does not mean they are any less deserving of intimacy and at the end of the day hopefully love.

 

Hugs,

Greg

[youngboldone]

Moreover you seem to assume that all clients are HIV negative and/or care about the eacort’s HIV status, if you think poz escorts should not be in the business. On both counts you are incorrect.

 

I didn't say that I assumed all clients are HIV negative, but again, the inverse holds true: if a client knows that they are poz, I believe they have a moral imperative to inform anyone they're considering having sex with so the other person can make an informed decision. As to the second part of your sentence, why WOULDN'T a client be concerned about an escort's HIV status? If you aren't interested in knowing that, then I would say you need to educate yourself. If everyone were more careful and cautious, the disease wouldn't still be spreading.

 

And yes, I read several of the links. And yes, I feel more informed. And yes, the fear is still there. There will always be some fear surrounding this issue. After all, it's your life at stake. If you aren't at least a little fearful, I would say that's just willful ignorance.

[escortrod]

I didn't say that I assumed all clients are HIV negative

Which is why I used the term "seem to assume".

 

As to the second part of your sentence, why WOULDN'T a client be concerned about an escort's HIV status? If you aren't interested in knowing that, then I would say you need to educate yourself. If everyone were more careful and cautious, the disease wouldn't still be spreading.

I am generally unconcerned about a sexual partner's HIV status because I use condoms, and because I know that I'm more likely to contract HIV from somebody who thinks they are negative than somebody who knows they are positive and who is medicated. That said I would find it reassuring to know that somebody is poz and undetectable. That is because I have educated myself on this topic.

 

I would say that's just willful ignorance.

I think we all know who has shown wilful ignorance on this topic.

[youngboldone]

There are both poz clients and poz hookers. I've seen many poz clients because of the stigma that @youngboldone is spreading. It's unfortunate and unfair. Just because one is poz does not mean they are any less deserving of intimacy and at the end of the day hopefully love.

 

Oh, boy. I knew the misinterpreters were going to come out of the woodwork. I am not spreading any stigma. And I never said that poz people weren't deserving of intimacy and love. That's ridiculous. Of course they are. But if I were poz, I would be looking to have sex with others who were poz, and if another person I wanted to sleep with wasn't poz, I wouldn't hold it against them if they decided not to risk it with me. And if I decided to enter sex work, I would certainly feel a moral responsibility to inform others of my status before engaging in sex with them. That's the point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to demean or defame anyone.

[escortrod]

I am not spreading any stigma.

You may not realise it, but you are.

And if I decided to enter sex work, I would certainly feel a moral responsibility to inform others of my status before engaging in sex with them. That's the point I was trying to make.

You started out by saying that poz escorts should not be in the business. That goes rather a lot further than disclosure.

[youngboldone]

GregM, I will also add that I recently kept an appointment with an escort who did reveal to me his poz status after I made an appointment with him. I went back and forth on that decision, but in the end, I knew it wasn't fair to the escort to back out on a standing appointment. I intended to pay him the full fee even if all we did was sit and talk for the two hours. He told me he was undetectable. Was he telling the truth? I don't know, but I figured if he was genuine and honest enough to tell me about his poz status in the first place, chances were pretty good he wasn't going to lie about that. I had loads of fear, but I went, and we had a wonderful time. We did everything but anal. I didn't feel comfortable doing that even with a condom. I didn't want to take the risk. To this day, I'm afraid I got infected from giving oral. Even though I know, statistically and factually speaking, the odds of contracting from precum are very low, there's still a nagging "What if?" in the back of my brain. When you are raised in a super strict religious household with a mother whose first response to your coming out was to cry and exclaim, "But you're going to die of AIDS!"....that tends to stick with you.

[youngboldone]

You may not realise it, but you are.

 

You started out by saying that poz escorts should not be in the business. That goes rather a lot further than disclosure.

 

I am wondering whether they should be. I welcome discussion. Personally, I think it's a moral gray area.

[escortrod]

I am wondering whether they should be. I welcome discussion. Personally, I think it's a moral gray area.

I really don't understand why. Those that are undetectable are fantastically unlikely to pass on HIV. To the best of my knowledge I am HIV-. That is not guaranteed. I could be one of the people who is undiagnosed. I represent a greater statistical risk than somebody who is undetectable (at least in London, where I live).

 

Disclosure is one thing, but the assertion that HIV+ escorts should retire seems patently absurd.

[Rudynate]

One escort I was talking to about PrEP said he had to get off of it. He said his doctor told him there was evidence PrEP was damaging his liver. I don't know how common that symptom is.

 

 

 

Common enough so that people on PrEP get liver enzymes done every three months.

[cooldemo03]

I dont see what it could hurt to get on Prep. Just an added layer of protection.

 

On a side note, any hints as to who this porn star idol is? Im so curious.

[+ Billsboy4]

I think the jury is still out on the long term toxicity of Prep. I also think that people are not always honest about their HIV +/- status or whether or not they are on Prep. I base this on 17 years experience as an HIV Test Counselor. Personally, I still practice safer sex.

[+ OliverSaks]

I think the jury is still out on the long term toxicity of Prep. I also think that people are not always honest about their HIV +/- status or whether or not they are on Prep. I base this on 17 years experience as an HIV Test Counselor. Personally, I still practice safer sex.

PreP IS safer sex!

[marylander1940]

One escort I was talking to about PrEP said he had to get off of it. He said his doctor told him there was evidence PrEP was damaging his liver. I don't know how common that symptom is.

 

That's why is important to get tested even though side effects from PrEP are very unlikely to happen.

[TruthBTold]

I believe that an escort has the ethical obligation to reveal their HIV status as a client has to reveal any relevant medical condition they might have (including HIV). It prepares everyone for the experience. Actually, and I am not sure if this could happen in the real world, would an escort look up a particular medical condition so they know the basics and feel more comfortable with the client. As a client I always make sure I make sure I tell what the relevant facts are and what a working guy should do in particular situations regarding the medical condition. It also makes me more comfortable. The only problem I always have is when exactly to present the facts.

[cooldemo03]

I believe that an escort has the ethical obligation to reveal their HIV status as a client has to reveal any relevant medical condition they might have (including HIV). It prepares everyone for the experience. Actually, and I am not sure if this could happen in the real world, would an escort look up a particular medical condition so they know the basics and feel more comfortable with the client. As a client I always make sure I make sure I tell what the relevant facts are and what a working guy should do in particular situations regarding the medical condition. It also makes me more comfortable. The only problem I always have is when exactly to present the facts.

 

Not only an ethical obligation, but in many jurisdictions, a legal one as well.

[LADoug1]

Actually, don't ever do that. Constant body heat and pressure of sitting on a wallet is as bad for a condom as using a petroleum-based lube.

 

Other advice here has been solid: Find a doc you can speak openly with, get on PrEP, find your comfort level from there on out. While there's no 100% risk-free way to have sex in this particular day and age, you can make sensible choices to limit problems. It sounds as if you're on the right track.

 

Rather than keep a condom in your wallet just bring one to any meet up that could result in sex.