Kurtis Wolf & Draven Navarro Groped On Stage At Hustlaball Las Vegas 2018

[Stephan]

Several porn stars were groped on stage at Hustlaball Las Vegas 2018, while go-go dancing. Kurtis Wolf had his penis yanked on stage by several men, and two other men rimmed Draven Navarro on stage for a few seconds without his permission.

 

 

Adult movie stars Adam Ramzi and Hugh Hunter are calling the incident sexual assault on their twitter page. What do you guys think? Was it sexual assault?

 

 

I don’t think it was. I thin Adam Ramzi and Hugh Hunter are overreacting.

 

http://www.queermenow.net/blog/hustlaball-las-vegas-2018-opening-party-gay-porn/?utm_content=buffer1cc81&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[jjkrkwood]

Any kind of touching WITHOUT the consent of the subject could be considered assault depending on the degree and intent. True the targets are pornstars who put themselves in a sexual situation, but unless they invited

attendees to "touch" them, they had no right to do so..... We live in different times now.....

[+ nycman]

You're at a gay event....where alcohol is being served.....dancing on stage in a jock strap.....

bumping and grinding with another man in a jock strap....in a shower......with men sticking

$$$ into your jockstrap.....

 

And someone is calling this “sexual assault”???

 

Wow....just wow. Tasteless, tacky, and over the line?...ok.

 

Sexual assuault?....Mary please, don’t confuse the smelling salts with the poppers.

 

I feel a puritanical breeze blowing over the nation...and it stinks.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I can't tell you how many times clients touched me in particular places without my express permission.

 

Sometimes it actually felt kind of gross.

 

There was a simple solution. I asked them not to touch me, and in return I gave them their $1000 back.

 

Of course, it's different when you are a paid stripper on a stage at a place like Hustlaball. That is clearly completely non-consensual.

 

We have been doing so well for the last decade, guys. Paving the way for same sex marriage, transgender bathrooms, and in so many ways getting people to open their hearts and minds to centuries of deeply felt oppression.

 

Please let's not fuck it up with this nonsense.

Edited January 15, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[jjkrkwood]

You're at a gay event....where alcohol is being served.....dancing on stage in a jock strap.....

bumping and grinding with another man in a jock strap....in a shower......with men sticking

$$$ into your jockstrap.....

 

And someone is calling this “sexual assault”???

 

Wow....just wow. Tasteless, tacky, and over the line?...ok.

 

Sexual assuault?....Mary please, don’t confuse the smelling salts with the poppers.

 

I feel a puritanical breeze blowing over the nation...and it stinks.

 

 

You are right, but then your statement would be akin to saying the young girl was dressed in a low top and short skirt, looked like a hooker so she was asking for it.... UNLESS she actually Asked for it, there should be no touching. Being at a Gay event in a state of undress is still no license to inappropriately TOUCH ... It wouldnt be any different if it happened to 2 attendees who were simply on the dance floor, and one did it to another. He would have grounds to report the offender.

Edited January 15, 2018 by jjkrkwood

[jjkrkwood]

I can't tell you how many times client touched me in particular places without my express permission.

 

Sometimes it actually felt kind of gross.

 

There was a simple solution. I asked them not to touch me, and in return I gave them their $1000 back.

 

Of course, it's different when you are a paid stripper on an stage at a place like Hustlaball. That is clearly completely non-consensual.

 

We have been doing so well for the last decade, guys. Paving the way for same sex marriage, transgender bathrooms, and in so many ways getting people to open their hearts and minds to centuries of deeply felt oppression.

 

Please let's not fuck it up with this nonsense.

 

 

I would NEVER do that, But if you happened to back into me because I was down on my knees searching for my purse, I cant be held accountable. Me groping for your 3 inch cock would just be so Tacky ! What kind of

Lady do you think i am ?

[+ nycman]

You are right

Thank you.

 

but then your statement would be akin to saying the young girl....

When did we become young girls?

 

Sigh.....

[jjkrkwood]

Thank you.

 

 

When did we become young girls?

 

Sigh.....

 

Ok, woman, female whatever.... The point is NOT to blame the victim which I believe your comment was doing. Fuck that, unless i tell you to touch me, keep your hands off, regardless of where I am or what I am wearing. and blaming "alcohol"..... LAME !

[+ nycman]

A male go-go dancer at “HustlerBall”....with $$$ in his jock strap...that were placed there by horny drunk men....

 

...is a “victim” when someone touches his cock?

 

I’m sorry but in this scenario....consent...is implied...even if not expressly given.

 

We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.....and the breeze continues to blow.

 

Suddenly....I never want to see another strip show...I’m simply terrified I “might” touch a penis!

[Trick]

When I was at Nob Hill Theatre years ago, I heard an announcement before the show saying something like California law prohibiting physical contact with the dancers. Nobody seemed to pay attention to it. There was a lot of touching going on. More than just touching actually.

 

So in the case on the original post, can they prosecute those who allegedly “assaulted” the performers if such law existed in that state?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Me groping for your 3 inch cock would just be so Tacky !

 

How kind of you to exaggerate my size. I suppose the good news is you can't assault it if you can't find it.

[BSR]

I've never attended Hustlaball, but from pictures & videos I thought that touching the dancers was standard procedure. Has anyone who has attended confirm or deny?

 

If touching the dancers was the norm in past years, did the unwritten rules change because of the Me Too movement?

 

If touching the dancers was not the norm in the past, then I can understand the complaints. If it was the norm, then I have a harder time sympathizing. True, you should never touch another person, especially in an intimate area, without consent. But if touching was the norm in past years, then the dancers knew what they were signing up for.

[jjkrkwood]

I've never attended Hustlaball, but from pictures & videos I thought that touching the dancers was standard procedure. Has anyone who has attended confirm or deny?

 

If touching the dancers was the norm in past years, did the unwritten rules change because of the Me Too movement?

 

If touching the dancers was not the norm in the past, then I can understand the complaints. If it was the norm, then I have a harder time sympathizing. True, you should never touch another person, especially in an intimate area, without consent. But if touching was the norm in past years, then the dancers knew what they were signing up for.

 

 

Norm ? That's exactly the point of the NEW current climate. Noone cares what the NORM used to be, it's about what it is NOW, and that's a NO, so whether they are GAY and at a GAY event dancing nude, or in a turtleneck at Church, keep your hands and mouths to yourself !

[maninsoma]

You are right, but then your statement would be akin to saying the young girl was dressed in a low top and short skirt, looked like a hooker so she was asking for it.... UNLESS she actually Asked for it, there should be no touching. Being at a Gay event in a state of undress is still no license to inappropriately TOUCH ... It would be any different if it happened to 2 attendees who were simply on the dance floor, and one did it to another. He would have grounds to report the offender.

 

No, a fair analogy would be to suggest that it's okay to grope a porn star in the gym because he was changing in a locker room and had a jock strap on. After all, he's asking for it by wearing something provocative. No one here is suggesting that these men's bodies are fair game everywhere they go. But if someone feels violated when random men come up and touch while they hand over money, then that person shouldn't work as a stripper.

[+ José Soplanucas]

Did you watch the videos? I think there is a clear difference between touching sensually the exposed parts of the stripper body, the ones that are clearly offered by the performer on one hand, and on the other getting into his underwear, pulling his dick out without the performer consent, and jerking it carelessly. To make it worse, this did not happen during a performance that included interaction with the audience. @Kurtis Wolfe was in that moment interacting with another performer.

It is clearly abusive, in my opinion.

It would be nice to have Kurtis' opinion.

[jjkrkwood]

No, a fair analogy would be to suggest that it's okay to grope a porn star in the gym because he was changing in a locker room and had a jock strap on. After all, he's asking for it by wearing something provocative. No one here is suggesting that these men's bodies are fair game everywhere they go. But if someone feels violated when random men come up and touch while they hand over money, then that person shouldn't work as a stripper.

 

You see no difference between "touching" and pulling out someones cock ? SAD

[+ José Soplanucas]

Also, I do not think we should be making a big deal out of it. I am quite confident it is a regular experience for adult entertainment performers. @Kurtis Wolfe's reaction was perfect. He stopped, set the limit, and moved on with the performance.

It is clearly abusive and disrespectful, but it is not raping. No one was harmed, although it could have been.

[maninsoma]

No, I didn't watch the videos. If it's as some of you are describing, then I agree that it went beyond consensual. I just got the impression from some of what was posted here that some of you thought that strippers should no longer be touched when performing, at all, unless a customer had a verbal exchange first and received express consent. That seemed impractical to me.

[big-n-tall]

Stuff like this happens a lot of course. It's just rare it's caught on video. This scenario reminds of a situation some years back with the porn actor Ricky Sinz.

 

He was stripping/performing on stage and some guy grabbed/punched him in the nuts. I think the attacker was jealous or upset that Ricky selected someone else from the audience to interact with. Or maybe he thought Ricky would like it because of his tough guy persona. Clearly, what happened to Ricky was more extreme then what happened to Kurtis. That patron at Hustlaball got off lightly because Kurtis seems to be a respectful guy. Ricky didn't take kindly to being assaulted and punched or slapped the guy in retaliation. There is a video of it online.

 

Sadly, some people, whether through sheer gall or inebriation, think they can do whatever they want.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I just got the impression from some of what was posted here that some of you thought that strippers should no longer be touched when performing, at all, unless a customer had a verbal exchange first and received express consent. That seemed impractical to me.

 

Well, you must have a very low concept of the participants in this forums if you think we would be advocating for such stupidity.

Please, watch the videos or at least read carefully the descriptions of what happened. Even if you do not watch the videos, the narrative descriptions leave no doubts about the abusive nature of the incident.

Edited January 15, 2018 by latbear4blk

[+ stevenkesslar]

Okay, just to be an asshole, I'll argue this. The real guilty parties in stripper bars are the strippers who seem to have absolutely no clue what they are doing there.

 

The stripper bar I've spent the most time in is Wet in Puerto Vallarta, with clients. My basic inclination is actually to simply go to a bathhouse instead. I always figured, What's the point of having a nice cock in your hand if you can't actually suck it or put it inside you? But whether it's a stripper club where it's mostly Straight guys making a living, or a bathhouse where it's Gay guys actually looking for sex, the rules are the same, and they are remarkably simple.

 

1. No means no.

 

2. If you make eye contact and the other guy turns his eyes away, or you put your hand somewhere to probe and it is moved away, you are getting a message. Listen to it. Most strippers or guys in bath houses are pretty good at letting you know, quickly and non-verbally, whether or not they are interested.

 

Then there is a category of strippers where I just can't figure it out.

 

The ones that are the funnest are of course the ones who tease you with their cock, take their dick out, get it hard, and then goad you to go to a private where they can actually make real money.

 

Then there is the category of guys that seem to be thinking, "I'm straight, so you can grope any part of my body, and it's cool, as long as my cock doesn't get hard and I look as completely disinterested in the process as humanly possible." Some of these guys have particular wishes which they make clear. So if your hand happens to move from their thigh or chest to their penis, they immediately move your hand to where it is actually allowed to be.

 

If you watch the video, Kurtis seemed to do a pretty good job of this by inserting his cock back in the jock strap and wagging his finger at the guy, to indicate, "No. Don't do that." This action occurred in between the moment when Kurtis' semi-hard cock was erotically nested against Armond Rizzo's butt hole, and the moment when Kurtis was erotically embracing and kissing Armond. It is not clear to me from the video that this was a transformative moment for Kurtis, and that he will require years of therapy to recover from this horrific assault.

 

Then there is the category of strippers who genuinely seem to feel the best way to make money is to not make eye contact and by all means make sure that you stay far enough away from the customers so that they can't actually touch your penis, or body, or insert tips in whatever clothing they happen to be wearing.

 

The bottom line is if you can't figure this out, you probably shouldn't be working in a stripper bar. And if you can figure it out, you probably are good at getting guys to take you into a private room where they can really grope you.

 

My one real regret about how quickly Al Franken fell is that the Leeann Tweeden story was very particular and unique. I think it offered a particularly good example to debate the nuances of what is and is not appropriate, and what the consequences of inappropriate behavior should be. That debate never really occurred because it all happened so quickly. And what really put the nails in Franken's coffin were all the other women who were just regular old folks who had every right to not want to be groped by Franken.

 

What was interesting about Tweeden is that she was a paid lingerie model for sites like Fredericks of Hollywood, and she appeared almost nude on the cover of semi-porn magazines wearing exactly the kinds of things that a stripper in a stripper bar would wear if she wanted you to be excited by her big breasts or her carefully shaved pussy, and tip her generously. Clearly, Franken's "humor," good or bad, played off her image as a sex kitten.

 

I was 100 % on Tweeden's side, and I think what Tweeden described made the rules incredibly clear. While Franken may have gotten the idea that it would be fun to stick his tongue down her throat, and I can completely understand his desire to do that, it really did boil down to, "No means no." Tweeden made that incredibly clear - assuming she told the truth - and yet Franken came back at her again and pushed the limit with that stupid photo.

 

An equivalent action would be if the guy who "assaulted" Kurtis Wolfe's cock in that video then came back for more, for example if he had a friend take a cell phone photo of him and Kurtis and he again groped Kurtis' poor, abused cock while the photo was being taken. Clearly, there should be some kind of industry service award for Kurtis' horse hung specimen of male beauty, given all the difficulties it has been put through.

 

Of course, my understanding is that Kurtis Wolfe is no Leeann Tweeden. He is not a cry baby. He comes from Texas.

 

So he probably would have done what real men do, and just beat the shit out of the dumb mother fucker.

Edited January 15, 2018 by stevenkesslar

[jjkrkwood]

Okay, just to be an asshole, I'll argue this. The real guilty party in stripper bars are the strippers who seem to have absolutely no clue what they are doing there.

 

The stripper bar I've spent the most time in is Wet in Puerto Vallarta, with clients. My basic inclination is actually to simply go to a bathhouse instead. I always figured, What's the point of having a nice cock in your hand if you can't actually suck it or put it inside you? But whether it's a stripper club where it's mostly Straight guys making a living, or a bathhouse where it's Gay guys actually looking for sex, the rules are the same, and they are remarkably simple.

 

1. No means no.

 

2. If you make eye contact and the other guy turns his eyes away, or you put your hand somewhere to probe and it is moved away, you are getting a message. Listen to it. Most strippers or guys in bath houses are pretty good at letting you know, quickly and non-verbally, whether or not they are interested.

 

Then there is a category of strippers where I just can't figure it out.

 

The ones that are the funnest are of course the ones who tease you with their cock, take their dick out, get it hard, and then goad you to go to a private where they can actually make real money.

 

Then there is the category of guys that seem to be thinking, "I'm straight, so you can grope any part of my body, and it's cool, as long as my cock doesn't get hard and I look as completely disinterested in the process as humanly possible." Some of these guys have particular wishes which they make clear. So if your hand happens to move from their thigh or chest to their penis, they immediately move your hand to where it is actually allowed to be.

 

If you watch the video, Kurtis seemed to do a pretty good job of this by inserting his cock back in the jock strap and wagging his finger at the guy, to indicate, "No. Don't do that." This action occurred in between the moment when Kurtis' semi-hard cock was erotically nested against the other stripper's butt hole, and the moment when Kurtis was erotically embracing and kissing the other stripper. It is not clear to me from the video that this was a transformative moment for Kurtis, and that he will require years of therapy to recover from this horrific assault.

 

Then there is the category of strippers who genuinely seem to feel the best way to make money is to not make eye contact and by all means make sure that you stay far enough away from the customers so that they can't actually touch your penis, or body, or insert tips in whatever clothing they happen to be wearing.

 

The bottom line is if you can't figure this out, you probably shouldn't be working in a stripper bar. And if you can figure it out, you probably are good at getting guys to take you into a private room where they can really grope you.

 

My one real regret about how quickly Al Franken fell is that the Leeann Tweeden story was very particular and unique. I think it offered a particularly good example to debate the nuances of what is and is not appropriate, and what the consequences of inappropriate behavior should be. That debate never really occurred because it all happened so quickly. And what really put the nails in Franken's coffin were all the other women who were just regular old folks who had every right to not want to be groped by Franken.

 

What was interesting about Tweeden is that she was a paid lingerie model for sites like Fredericks of Hollywood, and she appeared almost nude on the cover of semi-porn magazines wearing exactly the kinds of things that a stripper in a stripper bar would wear if she wanted you to be excited by her big breasts or her carefully shaved pussy, and tip her generously. Clearly, Franken's "humor," good or bad, played off her image as a sex kitten.

 

I was 100 % on Tweeden's side, and I think what Tweeden described made the rules incredibly clear. While Franken may have gotten the idea that it would be fun to stick his tongue down her throat, and I can completely understand his desire to do that, it really did boil down to, "No means no." Tweeden made that incredibly clear - assuming she told the truth - and yet Franken came back at her again and pushed the limit with that stupid photo.

 

An equivalent action would be if the guy who "assaulted" Kurtis Wolfe's cock in that video then came back for more, for example if he had a friend take a cell phone photo of him and Kurtis and he again groped Kurtis' poor, abused cock while the photo was being taken. Clearly, there should be some kind of industry service award for Kurtis' horse hung specimen of male beauty, given all the difficulties it has been put through.

 

Of course, my understanding is that Kurtis Wolfe is no Leeann Tweeden. He is not a cry baby. He comes from Texas.

 

So he probably would have done what real men do, and just beat the shit out of the dumb mother fucker.

 

 

Kessie, you overthink and over analyze Everything. Bottom line: DONT BE GRABBIN MY COCK !

[+ José Soplanucas]

Kessie, you overthink and over analyze Everything. Bottom line: DONT BE GRABBIN MY COCK !

 

We should confine @stevenkesslar to the Politics forums. We do not want people in The Lounge coming from that shithole place. We should bring more people from the Arts forum instead.

[jjkrkwood]

We should confine @stevenkesslar to the Politics forums. We do not want people in The Lounge coming from that shithole place. We should bring more people from the Arts forum instead.

 

 

Agreed, the Arts forum is Very close to Norway !

[+ Lance_Navarro]

Are you fucking kidding me?!? This is what happens when you're up on stage, doing a sex show and you're close enough to the audience. Some drunk, horny homo is gonna touch, grab or even try and suck your dick. I've been there, seen it and had it happen to me. It's not assault, and it just seems like someone wants to play the victim card. You didn't get Weinsteine'd or Cosby'd so stop equating it to assault and deligitimizing actual assault.