Ave atque vale

[Guest Merlin]

If you enjoy the series, you will enjoy reading the original. Suetonius's History of the Twelve Caesars is one of the most popular and readable histories of all time. Not dry old statistics, but a scandal after a poisoning after a illicit affair after a murder, on and on. Available in paperback in any large book store, Borders or Barnes and Noble for sure. Tacitus's Annals of Imperial Rome is also very good but you may want to skip parts about foreign wars which are not that interesting. You will, I think, be fascinated at seeing ancient Rome from the point of view of the ancient Romans themselves.

[woodlawn]

>>I see no particular reason to cut out large portions of

>>history when one is making a show about history.

 

>Woodlawn: It's not a documentary; it's reasonably accurate

>entertainment. You’re not being reasonable.

 

I find my comments to be quite reasonable. If you ever saw the film "Cleopatra" starring Elizabeth Taylor in the title role, then you saw one way in which a screenwriter can be faithful to history without depicting every minute of it. As we all know, Caesar didn't go straight back to Rome after leaving Egypt, but spent many months dealing with problems in Africa and other places first. The film didn't show those events, but did have a narrator describe them so that the audience would have an accurate impression of what happened when. I see no reason why these people can't do as much.

 

>“Rome” is sufficiently raunchy as is; it needn't be "Caligula"

>or "Chi Chi Larue presents: CAESAR!" to be entertaining or on

>target.

 

The point I was making is that it seems to me surpassingly stupid to tell people, as some of the posters in this thread do, that they should watch this series because there are shots of naked men in it now and then. Although the cast of characters posting here has changed, the percentage of idiots seems as high as ever.

 

I do compliment the producers of "Rome" for making a real effort to show the Romans as they were. Too often I have seen so-called "historical" dramas in which people of other eras are portrayed as being exactly like us, only wearing different clothes. When Vorenus goes to the forum to sell his slaves and finds most of them dead of what sounds like dysentery, for example, his only reaction is disappointment that he's been deprived of the profit he had hoped to make. And the scene in which Atia and Octavia argue over who gets to kill Octavia in the event the mob breaks into their home is priceless. I look forward to more of the same.

[+ Charlie]

Suetonius is indeed entertaining, but his is not exactly a full or objective historical account. For that one might be better off with something like Colin Wells's "The Roman Empire" (2nd ed.), which is a very readable as well as concise and thorough history of the period, putting the sex and politics in a fuller context.

[pierrot]

My original post in which I mentioned that I wish they would include some gay sex was not meant to imply that the series should turn into Queer as Folk. I was merely pointing out that since there is a hetero sex scene every 15-20 minutes, it wouldn't be out of place to occasionally throw in a homo scene. I know the vast majority of the audience is straight. So what? They won't forego this excellent series just because there's an occasional gay sex scene. Look at Six Feet Under, it had the mix.

But most importantly I want to make it clear that I love this series anyway. They've made real attempts at accuracy (although of course they have to make some compromises too), and the dialogue is extremely well written. It reminds me of I Claudius in that way.

And, in the end, I expect we will see some homo-sex at some point. I'm happy watching James Purefoy's lovely bod humping women too (Has anyone counted how many times he's boffed Atia already?). And no, that's not the only reason I'm watching it. But it adds some nice spice, and the drama is none the worse for it.

[RockHard]

<"I know the vast majority of the audience is straight. So what? They won't forego this excellent series just because there's an occasional gay sex scene. Look at Six Feet Under, it had the mix.">

 

I'd love to see some men-on-men action, too. But I won't hold my breath (or stop watching). I'm happy with the occasional full-frontal. (Just think, it could be completely sanitized by the networks.)

 

The unfortunate truth is, straight men, single or with families, aren't really fond of viewing two naked men being sexually playful. They can tolerate it once or twice but, beyond that, it's a crap shoot. As a producer, if you go that route, you risk turning off a substantial segment of your paying audience. HBO is not in business to lose money. Fully satisfying a gay male audience today with a mass-market show is not going to happen. I won't even mention the current wave of political conservatism. Very few risk takers exist in this climate.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare "Rome" to "Six Feet Under." Does "Rome" have a gay creator? A gay writer? Furthermore, "SFU" was hemorrhaging viewers. I don't believe the gay aspect of the show had anything to do with killing its audience but who knows what the powers-that-be thought. I got the impression Alan Ball was ready to move on.

 

The first rule in advertising is know your audience. Seems to me HBO is playing this one right.

[Guest Merlin]

You're right, of course, except that much of the appeal for me, of Suetonius and Tacitus, is in seeing ancient Rome through the eyes of the Romans themselves; people who believe in their ancient gods and rituals, who believe in the signifcance of "signs" from the gods; and who see nothing wrong with slavery or the "games". Suetonius seems to have written almost entirely on the basis of rumor and hearsay, as, to a lesser extent did Tacitus.

[RockHard]

RE: Lesbian action.

 

If you can call two women kissing with passion "lesbian action," then HBO's "Rome" featured a little gay sex last night (that's if you can define kissing as gay sex).

 

Seems to me HBO may just deliver some trinkets to its gay audience. There's plenty more to be told in Rome's story. Patience is a virtue. Just don't expect Chi Chi LaRue as a guest director.