Dealing with parents ...

[VaHawk]

How can we get you to zip it???

 

"I hope your telling it like it is will show people like Hawk that they shouldn't be so quick to give flip opinions when they know very little (if anything) of the background."

 

So just what is "people like Hawk"???? That's RIGHT!!!, you don't know a damn thing about Hawk or any other poster here, that they haven't revealed on this site, so, PLEASE follow your very own advice about being quick to give "flip opinions"!, when you know NOTHING about the posters' backgrounds! But such shortcomings would never stop you from posting your totally off-the-wall rantings, would it? :-(

 

Please forgive me, if my observations are out of line, but there was a big thunderstorm, and the lightening was so bad and so scary, that my thighs shook! I called for the Army to save me, but all they sent was one fuckin' Marine! :7 , which proved to be totally useless!

 

Just an aside, but: I HOPE that SOMEDAY, I get to meet a traveling crackerjack man that loves CAPS as much as he LOVES BIG!! non-white COCK! Sigh, just a dream, I guess! :o

[RockHard]

Life is NOT black and white and sometimes "honesty" is wrapped in the cloak of denial, ignorance, and insensitivity, which can easily turn and distort inflated, well-meaning altruisms into the falsehoods and lies they truly are.

 

Who among us is NEVER dishonest? With others or with ourselves?

 

All parents are ignorant of something. No parent steps up to the plate knowing how to deal and cope with everything.

 

It took 20 years for my dad to be reasonably comfortable with my being gay. With his own history as a young man teasing and beating up on effeminate boys, I suspect he's had a ton of baggage and guilt to overcome that had nothing to do with me.

 

People don't go from ignorant to smart overnight. Imagine if any of us had to survive that litmus test. It can take a VERY LONG time for parents to figure out how to love their gay child. What may seem like "complete rejection" at the moment, can easily turn into deep love and respect. Nurturing takes time...for both sides. And each side has to give it a chance on his/her own terms.

[twinkboylover28]

>>A more precise statement would be that you would rather have a

>dishonest relationship with your parents than a potentially

>hostile one.

 

No, my statement was very precise. I'd rather have a relationship with my parents than with PFLAG.

 

>>that disgusting pig, (R-CA) Rep. David Drier who was passed over as >a replacement for Tom DeLay, or the creepy Ken Mehlman RNC chair, >both cowards who have REFUSED to answer direct questions about their >sexuality.

 

God bless America.

 

If you truly respect an individual's decision to remain in the closet, then you can't cherry-pick which individual's can stay in the closet.

[Guest jeffOH]

>If you truly respect an individual's decision to remain in the

>closet, then you can't cherry-pick which individual's can

>stay in the closet.

 

If you can "cherry-pick" what parts of yourself you're going to share or not share with family/friends, I can most certainly "cherry-pick" to out the closeted, homosexual, hypocritical cowards who are promoting an agenda that's anti-gay. Perhaps one day if you ever decide to exit your closet, you'll have a different opinion on this issue.

[twinkboylover28]

>>both cowards who have REFUSED to answer direct questions about >their sexuality.

 

The only person an individual has to answer to regarding one's sexuality is oneself. The idea of a litmus test to force people out of the closet is communist.

 

There are many decent people who are pro-family or "anti-gay" as you put it. These people aren't the anti-Christ. Outing anyone without their permission is simply vicious and shows disrespect for the right of ALL individuals to remain in the closet, regardless of your personal political agenda or views.

[Guest jeffOH]

>I believe that if I had fundamentalist or ignorant

>parents, I would prefer to risk complete rejection rather than

>live a lie (and people are living to pretty ripe ages, these

>days--my parents could live until I'm 60!).

 

I agree Unicorn. As much as I'd like to have a relationship with my parents, I'm grateful that I came out when I did. A relationship that's based upon lies or lying by omission isn't much of relationship.

[twinkboylover28]

>>I agree Unicorn. As much as I'd like to have a relationship

>with my parents, I'm grateful that I came out when I did. A

>relationship that's based upon lies or lying by omission isn't

>much of relationship.

 

 

I disagree. Not having a relationship with one's parents for 20 years is pretty much not having a relationship.

[Guest]

>

>If you truly respect an individual's decision to remain in the

>closet, then you can't cherry-pick which individual's can

>stay in the closet.

 

I'm sorry, but that's just a load of crap. A person's right to be in the closet ends when he infringes on MY rights as a gay individual. If celebrities like Liberace, Rock Hudson, or Tom Cruise want to stay in the closet, that's their business. But when a gay person makes a career out of persecuting gay people, he gives up his right to stay in the closet.

If a person wants to lie to his parents, other family members, movie fans, friends, etc., I really don't give a rat's ass. That person has to live with himself, not me (of course, I wouldn't be friends with such a person). However, when a person in a position of power's lies and hypocracy (legislator, judge, etc.) start stepping on MY toes, that becomes MY business (and the entire public's business, of course). I cannot accept a person persecuting or denouncing "Group X" while denying being a member of "Group X."

This is not, of course, to deny anyone the right to his opinions. If a legislator wants to say "I don't believe in equal rights for gay people, even though I'm gay," that's fine with me. I don't agree with him, but at least he's being honest and not a hypocrite. Likewise, if a priest wants to say "Anyone who has sex outside of marriage is a sinner and will go to Hell, and, by the way, I like to fuck children," well, at least he's being honest.

However, the public absolutely has the right to know when a person uses his public position to either dictate the behaviors of others, or persecute others, yet sees himself above the rules he makes for other people.

[twinkboylover28]

>I'm sorry, but that's just a load of crap. A person's right

>to be in the closet ends when he infringes on MY rights

>as a gay individual.

 

 

Sorry, but your personal political beliefs don't dictate the right to out anyone.

 

You sound like an assassin. If any closeted person disagrees with you politicaly, you will use their sexuality against them for your self-righteous reasons.

 

What you're really saying is it's only okay to be pro-family if you're straight.

 

This is America last time I checked.

 

 

 

>If celebrities like Liberace, Rock

>Hudson, or Tom Cruise want to stay in the closet, that's their

>business.

 

 

 

Feel better now, "outing" people you feel are homosexual? Last time I checked Tom Cruise said he is straight.

 

Did you fuck him lately?

 

Do you decide who's gay in Hollywood?

 

I may feel David Letterman is gay, but you don't hear me proclaiming it as fact.

 

 

 

>But when a gay person makes a career out of

>persecuting gay people, he gives up his right to stay in the

>closet.

 

 

 

Being pro-family isn't "persecuting gays." There are many decent people who dont agree with the gay agenda. That doesn't make them the scum of the Earth.

 

If he's acting on behalf of the people who voted him in to office, and elected him, then he's doing his job just like the Mayor of Washington last Spring.

 

 

 

 

>If a person wants to lie to his parents, other family members,

>movie fans, friends, etc., I really don't give a rat's ass.

 

 

 

 

Sexual identity is personal.

 

It's interesting how you label all closeted people as lying, dishonest, self-loathing people.

 

Gays don't like being stereotpyed as a promiscious homosexuals. Stop the sterotype.

 

 

 

>However, when a person in a position of power's lies and hypocracy

>(legislator, judge, etc.) start stepping on MY toes,

>that becomes MY business (and the entire public's

>business, of course). I cannot accept a person persecuting or

>denouncing "Group X" while denying being a member of "Group

>X."

 

Hypocrisy happens everyday. The doctor who says "watch your weight and quit smoking", yet goes to Mcdonalds and is overweight.

 

It doesn't give you, or anyone, the right to make personal decisons (outing them) on their behalf. Are you also going to pay his personal phone bills, and read his mail? Maybe pick out his clothing?

 

 

 

>This is not, of course, to deny anyone the right to his

>opinions.

 

 

Bullshit. You dont respect the right of ALL individuals to be closeted. You feel you have the right to cherry-pick who, and who shouldnt, be in the closet.

 

 

 

>If a legislator wants to say "I don't believe in

>equal rights for gay people, even though I'm gay," that's fine

>with me. I don't agree with him, but at least he's being

>honest and not a hypocrite.

 

 

 

LMAO!! Are you living in the land of Oz?

 

 

 

 

> Likewise, if a priest wants to

>say "Anyone who has sex outside of marriage is a sinner and

>will go to Hell, and, by the way, I like to fuck children,"

>well, at least he's being honest.

 

 

 

Catholic bashing?

 

 

 

>However, the public absolutely has the right to know when a

>person uses his public position to either dictate the

>behaviors of others, or persecute others, yet sees himself

>above the rules he makes for other people.

 

 

 

Outing anyone for any reason, especially for your personal political views/agenda, is vicious and wrong.

[twinkboylover28]

This was previously discussed on this thread.

 

http://babydb.male4malescorts.com/m4mdc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=17&topic_id=13971&mesg_id=13971&page=&topic_page=1

[twinkboylover28]

I don't put "conditions" on your "coming out" process.

 

I don't say "You must be conservative, anti-abortion, and agree with MY political views" in order for YOU to come out."

 

Therefor, you have no right to cherry-pick and put "conditions" on anyone's decision to "stay in the closet."

 

Which political organization created "National Coming Out" day, designed to pressure people to come out of the closet? Gee, I wonder...

 

The bottom line is I respect your right to COME OUT. I don't call you names like dishonest, coward, self-loathing, lying, flaming, extravagant, non-comformist, etc. I respect the coming out process.

 

Therefor, you should respect peoples right to STAY IN regardless of YOUR personal political views..

 

It's my life, my choice. Not yours.

[Guest]

>What you're really saying is it's only okay to be pro-family

>if you're straight.

>

I don't know what you consider pro-family, but hating and rejecting your own child because of his sexual preference isn't pro-family. Promoting stable loving relationships through gay marriage and adoption is pro-family. I suspect that your idea of "pro-family" is merely a code-word for anti-gay hate-mongering. That's about as honest a term as Nazi or Serbian or Rwandan "ethnic cleansing."

 

>Feel better now, "outing" people you feel are homosexual? Last

>time I checked Tom Cruise said he is straight.

>

Yes, and so did Liberace, Rock Hudson, Anthony Perkins, and many others. Tom Cruise's sexual preference is fairly common knowledge, and his antics are well-publicized in the press (all of his intimidation lawsuits notwithstanding). And would it shock you to learn that Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are gay and used to be buddies?

[Guest]

>The bottom line is I respect your right to COME OUT. I don't

>call you names like dishonest, coward, self-loathing, lying,

>flaming, extravagant, non-comformist, etc. I respect the

>coming out process.

>

Well, thanks, although I'm definitely none of those things. I can be rather blunt with my opinions sometimes, but no one's every accused me of being any of those other things.

 

>

>It's my life, my choice. Not yours.

 

As I said before, I have no interest in judging your choices--along as it doesn't infringe on my own human rights. So if you are Ralph Reed or Jerry Falwell or some other public figure who spouts off anti-gay rhetoric, you're fair game.

[twinkboylover28]

>>I don't know what you consider pro-family, but hating and rejecting >>your own child because of his sexual preference isn't pro-family.

 

 

 

I thought we were talking about coming out of the closet, not the definiton of pro-family.

 

 

 

>>Promoting stable loving relationships through gay marriage and >>adoption is pro-family.

 

 

 

Sounds like pro-gay more than pro-family.

 

 

>>I suspect that your idea of "pro-family" is merely a code-word for >>anti-gay hate-mongering. That's about as honest a term as Nazi or >>Serbian or Rwandan "ethnic cleansing."

 

 

 

I see how it is. When you can't respond to the facts, you name call. Anyone who is pro-family is a Nazi.

 

 

 

>>Yes, and so did Liberace, Rock Hudson, Anthony Perkins, and many >>others. Tom Cruise's sexual preference is fairly common knowledge, >>and his antics are well-publicized in the press (all of his >>intimidation lawsuits notwithstanding). And would it shock you to >>learn that Ben Affleck and Matt Damon are gay and used to be buddies?

 

 

 

Do you feel a sense of power by outing people you feel are gay? Pathetic.

 

 

 

>>Well, thanks, although I'm definitely none of those things. I

>>can be rather blunt with my opinions sometimes, but no one's

>>every accused me of being any of those other things.

 

 

 

Yeah right!

 

 

 

>As I said before, I have no interest in judging your

>choices--along as it doesn't infringe on my own human rights.

 

 

 

I could careless about your judgement; however, your personal political beliefs have nothing to do with my choice to stay in the closet. How dare you "out someone" that you may feel doesn't agree with YOUR personal politics? How self-righteous.

 

One can be closeted, and still feel that gay marriage is wrong. This gives you absolutely NO right to "out" that person.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I don't put conditions on your coming out process, so don't put conditions on anyones decision to stay in the closet. That's what it means to respect ones choice to stay i nthe closet.

 

 

 

>So if you are Ralph Reed or Jerry Falwell or some other public

>figure who spouts off anti-gay rhetoric, you're fair game.

 

 

 

Right. They're the anti-Christ. Just because they disagree with YOUR politics.

 

Even if both of them were closeted, they have the right to their beliefs.

 

It's funny how you think only straight people can be pro-family, and anything less of full acceptance of the gay agenda is some sort of "infringement" on your so-called "human rights."

[Bilbo]

Dear tblover, Are you pro-gay family, too? What is your position on gay marriage? - Bilbo

[twinkboylover28]

My personal political view, which has absolutely nothing to do on whether someone should "out" me or not, is that gays should have the same benefits allowed to married people... and certainly be alowed to adopt. However, even if I believed otherwise, that certainly doesn't give someone the right to "out" me against my will.

[Guest]

>Even if both of them were closeted, they have the right to

>their beliefs.

>

You haven't been reading what I've been writing. Anyone has the right to believe anything he wants to believe. However, the public has the right to know when a public figure behaves hypocritically, espousing intollerance for a group, yet secretly belonging to that group. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. Almost all of the press by in large agrees with me, and they, in fact, relish exposing hypocrites. The mayor in Oregon or Washington who ran on an anti-gay platform, yet had sex with young men in exchange for favors, represents a recent example. The press had a field day.

 

>It's funny how you think only straight people can be

>pro-family, and anything less of full acceptance of the gay

>agenda is some sort of "infringement" on your so-called "human

>rights."

Anybody can have any kind of opinion he wants. I'm pro-family. I love my family and they love me just the way I am. You're pro-dysfunctional-family, and that's your right, too. The reality, of course, is that because of the web of lies you have created with your family (and probably your friends), you can't enjoy a stable loving relationship with a man, and you especially couldn't get married to one. Since you're doomed to a life without true love and acceptance, it just kills you to see other gay men in happy, loving, accepting relationships (with functional families, no less). I'm fairly certain that the reason you espouse anti-gay beliefs is that you want other gay men to feel unhappy like you are, and not that you're some super-pious person who devotes himself to spreading God's word (as you see it).

[twinkboylover28]

>You haven't been reading what I've been writing. Anyone has

>the right to believe anything he wants to believe.

 

 

 

 

Bullshit! ONLY if they believe in your personal politcal beliefs, or else look out...you will out them! You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

You haven't been responding to any of the facts and arguments I've clearly presented to you throughout this entire thread; rather, you attempt to spin the topic in favor of your personal political agenda... hence dodging the facts presented.

 

 

 

 

>the public has the right to know when a public figure behaves

>hypocritically, espousing intollerance for a group, yet

>secretly belonging to that group

 

 

 

 

Who died and made you the CNN Headline News closet police? Is the "public right to know about someones sexual identity" in the constitution? The public has absolutely NO right to know who I'm fucking at night.

 

It's funny how when you can't win an argument, you through out terms like "Nazi, intolerant, and dishonest" in your failed, pathetic attempt to character-assassinate anyone who holds an opposing view point.

 

Even our newest member, RockHard, has criticized your miserable attempts to label certain celebrities as homosexual.

 

 

 

 

 

>Whether you agree or not is irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong! Whether YOU agree or not is irrelevant!!

 

I can dismis you just as easily as you attempt to dismis my point of view. This says a lot about YOUR character by the way.

 

See, in America, your "it's my way or the highway" approach doesn't fly. This is America, not communist soviet union. Both sides get to be heard.

 

 

 

 

>Almost all of the press by in large agrees with me, and they, in fact, relish exposing hypocrites.

 

 

 

 

OMG you make this too easy!!

 

Did you conduct a survey of "all the press", or are you just confirming their left-leaning bias? Did you consult with Maury Povich to see if he can find out "Who's the real father" of the alleged closeted homosexuals are? How did Wolf Blitzer and Bill O'Reilly way in on the subject?

 

If you're looking for the press to crystalize your personal political agenda, I might as well ask the devil if it's ok to steal.

 

 

 

 

 

>The mayor in Oregon or Washington who ran on an anti-gay platform, yet

>had sex with young men in exchange for favors, represents a

>recent example. The press had a field day.

 

 

 

 

And that was WRONG of the press.

 

 

 

 

>I'm

>pro-family. I love my family and they love me just the way I

>am.

 

 

 

 

You're PRO-GAY. You don't beleive in freedom of belief or personal privacy.

 

If you had your way you would forceably "out" everyone who disagreed with your personal political beliefs.

 

 

 

 

>You're pro-dysfunctional-family, and that's your right,

>too.

 

 

 

 

Again, another failed attempt to spin the topic while name calling and throwing out labels.

 

According to you, anyone who holds the sincere belief that "homosexuality is wrong" is labeled dysfunctional. I submit there are many decent people who hold this belief and support a pro-family agenda. What you're saying is only straight people can be pro-family, and God forbid if your a homosexual and disagree with gay marriage, Unicorn will out your ass!!

 

You are blackmaleing/extorting closeted homoesexuals in order to gain support for your personal political agenda. That's criminal, shameful, and wrong.

 

According to Unicorn, you can only be in the closet if you agree to Unicorns personal political beliefs, and don't contradict HIS agenda..which, by the way, is the "correct" and "only" agenda permitted to follow if you are a closeted homosexual/politician. You must live up to Unicorn's standards of hypocrisy or face his wrath. If you do not support a pro gay agenda, you will be forceably outed by Unicorn. Do as Unicorn says or else!

 

Sounds like you're the one who is UNLOVABLE!

 

 

God forbid you should believe a child is better off with a mother and a father, or else you will be labeled dysfunctional.

 

 

 

 

?The reality, of course, is that because of the web of

>lies you have created with your family (and probably your

>friends), you can't enjoy a stable loving relationship with a

>man, and you especially couldn't get married to one.

 

 

 

HAHAHA..another failed attempt to change the subject while you're miserably failing to defend your "right to out" people.

 

By the way, I'm curious to know when it was that you have met my family? Please explain the "web of lies" that you claim I have spun. Because al closeted people are "dishonest, sdelf-loathing lairs" according to you.

 

YOUR approval has absolutely NOTHING to do with MY PERSONAL life. I don't have to beleive or follow anything on YOUR litmus test in order for me to make my PERSONAL decision to stay in the closet.. be it if I'm a regular citizen or even a hypocritical politician.

 

You just stated that you "know' as fact that I've never enjoyed a stable relationship with a man? You know this how?

 

Again, you're desperately trying to make this a gay/straight issue in another failed attempt to polarize both sides. You're saying all gays must stand behind and support the gay agenda or face your wrath and risk being outed.

 

You're not outing them because their hypocrits, thats bullshit, you out people to be punitive.. strickly for glee and revenge.

 

I don't need to "have a traditional marriage" in order to enjoy a healhty relationship. How do you explain the 3 year relationship I ve had with my boifriend in the year 2000?

 

 

 

 

>Since

>you're doomed to a life without true love and acceptance, it

>just kills you to see other gay men in happy, loving,

>accepting relationships (with functional families, no less).

 

 

 

Right. Like your friend who hasnt spoken to his family in 20 years? That relationsahip?

 

 

Riiiiiiiight... it just "kills" me to see two gay people in love. Nothing could cause me more pain. Did you forget to take your meds today?

 

I'm "doomed to a life without true love?" Are you Miss Cleo or something? Sounds like you have your tongue stuck so far up your ass you're still tasting Sunday dinner.

 

 

 

 

>I'm fairly certain that the reason you espouse anti-gay

>beliefs is that you want other gay men to feel unhappy like

>you are, and not that you're some super-pious person who

>devotes himself to spreading God's word (as you see it).

 

 

 

 

Do you always talk out of your ass? I support pro-family beliefs. Didn't you just read the previous post, or are you always this self-righteous and ignorant?

 

I clearly stated that I beleive gays show be allowed to adopt and have domestic partner benefits; however, if someone doesnt hold MY personal beliefs, I certainly have no right to harm them and "out" them against their personal will.

 

 

Two can play this "label game"... now it's my turn to label YOU a flaming, ignorant, left-wing lunatic, gay-militant fanatic, HRC and ACLU card carrying wacko. But again, I won't go there. I refuse to stoop to your level.

 

You have proven that you disprect anyone who disagrees with you. You label people as "intolerant" and dismiss their opposing viewpoints. You attack them personaly while avoiding, and ignoring, the overwhelming facts and arguments presented... all the while spinning the topic.

 

The bottom line is that YOU should respect anyones right to "come out of the closet" uncondiitonaly; likewise, YOU should respect anyones right to "stay "n the closet" UNCONDIITONALLY... regardless if they disagree with YOUR self-righteous, personal, politcal agenda.

[Guest]

Now, that's one of the craziest rants I've read. I guess the truth really hurts, huh.

[twinkboylover28]

>Now, that's one of the craziest rants I've read. I guess the

>truth really hurts, huh.

 

 

 

 

Didn't answer one single question.

 

Two words: CHECK MATE

[VaHawk]

GOD! HOW more pathetic can you get? Want to bring out your own brand of coathangers ala M. Stewart, then please do so! But PLEASE don't try to stick you wire hangers up openly gay men's asses! :7

 

You live a lie, and advocate others living a lie! Yeah, lies are the pathway to happiness! :7 :7 :7

 

Yippeee! I want to live my life as a LIE! I want to be a BOZO, playing to the circus that is my family, who LOVE laughing at the little sissy boy faggots on TV shows, while I laugh right along with them as I high five them with my limp wrist!

 

And, since you live in the darkness of your closet, no light shines on anything remotely logical, huh? That means, gay people in positions of power and who advocate the denial of rights of gay people, should be OUTED for the hypocritical, closet cases that they are! Too damn bad, that that agenda hits too close to home for your closeted butt, but it is still, imo, the RIGHT agenda!

 

Must be REALLY sad to be you! :-( as, it is obvious by your many, many, many postings here and there that to you gay means only sexual encounters. How FUCKING sad! x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x( x(

[twinkboylover28]

>You live a lie, and advocate others living a lie!

 

 

Stereotyping all closeted people as "living a lie". You should be proud.

 

 

>

>Yippeee! I want to live my life as a LIE! I want to be a

>BOZO, playing to the circus that is my family, who LOVE

>laughing at the little sissy boy faggots on TV shows!

 

 

Labeling all closeted people as BOZO'S shows that you have no respect for closeted people.

 

 

>

>And, since you live in the darkness of your closet, no light

>shines on anything remotely logical, huh? That means, gay

>people in positions of power and who advocate the denial of

>rights of gay people, should be OUTED for the hypocrite,

>closet cases that they are! Too damn bad, that that agenda

>hits too close to home for your closeted butt, but it is

>still, imo, the RIGHT agenda!

 

 

Your "opinion" of what the "RIGHT" agenda is doesn't trump my right to stay in the closet.

 

 

>Must be REALLY sad to be you! :-(

 

 

Actually my life is great. Thanks for your concern. You should take that rainbow pride flag out of your ass.

[VaHawk]

Deleted, as no amount of my angry words, could speak as many volumes as the op! :7

[ncbearguy]

I came out at 40 to my then 70 year old parents. They told me they always had "a feeling". They said that I was thier son and always will be and that they wouldn't change me for the world. Not the expected reaction!!:-)

[Guest]

You didn't ask any questions, other than rhetorical ones.

 

Two words: DUMB ASS