Evolution

[+ Lucky]

RE: Proud of Taylor

 

Spoken like a proud papa...are you hitting on him, woodie?

[woodlawn]

RE: Proud of Taylor

 

Lucky, you are someone who clearly respects no one and nothing, including yourself. What are you doing in a thread that is about deploring disrespectful behavior? Isn't that like Bobby Knight speaking up on behalf of sportsmanlike behavior?

[+ Lucky]

RE: Proud of MEtaylor

 

Woodie, what are you doing reading my posts????

 

I am fucking flattered!

[Boston Guy]

RE: Proud of Taylor

 

>Each and every poster who has lectured and rebuked you here

>has committed enough crimes that he would spend the better

>part of his remaining years in jail if he was convicted and

>sentenced for each offense.

 

Yeah, right. In most jurisdictions in the US, soliciting a prostitute is a misdemeanor. In many jurisdictions, the penalty is a fine.

 

>These are people who have no

>respect for the values and beliefs of their neighbors and

>fellow citizens -- but they have the colossal nerve to condemn

>you for being disrespectful toward total strangers whom you

>meet on an anonymous message board.

 

One could make the same argument for those who speed on the highway. In fact, one could easily argue that those who violate the speed limit are placing far more people in danger than those who solicit a prostitute. Of course, in truth, there is no logical basis for your claim that people who hire an escort "have no respect for the values and beliefs of their neightbors and fellow citizens." It's just a non sequitur that you like to parade out from time to time. It sounds good and evidently you think that if you say it often enough people will begin to believe it.

 

>The proper reaction to

>their sanctimonious cant is derisive laughter, and I am proud

>to see you have reacted properly. Kudos.

 

I suppose you are willing to offer the same advice regarding any person who has committed a misdemeanor -- which means basically everyone in the US -- including yourself. Which, of course, makes the proper reaction to your own advice "derisive laughter."

 

BG

[+ Lucky]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

ProudMama, we are so happy to hear about your pride in your son. Here is one of his pasttimes on escortjab that must thrill you:

 

metaylor

little raife..awwwwwwww

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

one of the resident dipshits from "bills" site (RAIFE) in,a rambling boring way asks in "post #62 of the way i see things thread" why we continue to call the misfits populating that board....well.....misfits (among other things LOL).

he provides a list suggesting everything from we are homophobes to poverty struck and jealous of the grand social life he lives.

 

well RAIFE i can only speak for myself when i say my reason... is......i enjoy sticking sharp pointed sticks into the eyes of insignificant assholes like yourself ....over and over and over again....and like the sad little fucks that you are....you keep coming back for more and more and more.

[Boston Guy]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

Sounds like his parents did a terrific job raising him. They should be proud.

 

BG

[taylorky]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

>Sounds like his parents did a terrific job raising him. They

>should be proud.

>

>BG

 

 

well thank you,maybe you are capable of being civilized.

[Guest mbarz]

>The guys who are doing this show no regard for this site -- in

>fact, they're quite open in their disdain for it. They show

>no regard for their follow posters. They carry hurt feelings

>and grudges around with them and post in what appears to be an

>attempt to say "Well, I'll show you!" -- kind of like trying

>to ruin other people's party.

>

>They like to call other people hypocrites. I wonder if any of

>them have looked in a mirror recently? And then they wonder

>why other people here don't respect them. Pretty much like

>seventh grade.

>

>And, the odd thing is, if they came back and actually posted

>in a reasonable manner, everyone else would welcome them back.

> Oh, well.

>

>BG

 

Funny, Boston Guy, I am new poster here, followed the rules, did not have any grudges or hurt feelings, but because I was associated with "the mean girls" I was treated with a "We'll show you" attitude.

 

Could that be the reason I was edited and warned the other day? Was what I said really a personal attack or was it just close enough that I could be used as an example? I know you're not a moderator, you didn't read the post, blah, blah, blah.

 

One of the "gentlemen" here -who has attacked me viscously on the other site- has tried repeatedly to bait me, makes snide comments, and disregards the rules when it comes to me, but at the same time, wants others to uphold those same rules. This makes him a hypocrite, sorry if that hurts, but it is true.

 

Until the rules apply to everyone don't expect people to follow them without resistance.

[Guest mbarz]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

>Sounds like his parents did a terrific job raising him. They

>should be proud.

>

>BG

 

Very gentlemanly Boston Guy, you and Lucky are fine examples of what this site stands for, HooBoy would be proud.

[Boston Guy]

I think the rules should apply to everyone, equally, without exception and without favoritism.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, as a newcomer, you weren't welcomed warmly. You should have been. But suppose you were at a party. In one room, you heard someone really insulting you or putting you down. Suppose you then left that room and went to another. In a few minutes, the person who had just been insulting you came in and was oh-so-very polite. I think you'd admit that most people in that situation would be at least suspicious of the person's motives and probably pretty cool to them. People don't like to be insulted.

 

You're right: I'm not a moderator and I don't know what post(s) you are referring to and I have no idea what you've posted at the other site. If you are being attacked here, use the alert button to alert the moderators.

 

BG

[Guest mbarz]

>I think the rules should apply to everyone, equally, without

>exception and without favoritism.

>

>I'm sorry to hear that, as a newcomer, you weren't welcomed

>warmly. You should have been. But suppose you were at a

>party. In one room, you heard someone really insulting you or

>putting you down. Suppose you then left that room and went to

>another. In a few minutes, the person who had just been

>insulting you came in and was oh-so-very polite. I think

>you'd admit that most people in that situation would be at

>least suspicious of the person's motives and probably pretty

>cool to them. People don't like to be insulted.

>

>You're right: I'm not a moderator and I don't know what

>post(s) you are referring to and I have no idea what you've

>posted at the other site. If you are being attacked here, use

>the alert button to alert the moderators.

>

>BG

 

Why is it that you bitch about people acting like seventh graders, but talk to everyone like they are seventh graders?

 

I wasn't expecting a fucking party, but I wasn't expecting the rules to be bent just to enforce them either, that's what hypocrites do, good thing there aren't any here.

 

Thanks for the advice on the alert button, but I think I'll pass, that's more for nellie old men.

[Boston Guy]

Well, I'd say that if this response is typical of what you normally post, it's not surprising if people don't respond well to what you have to say. Pretty simple, really.

 

BG

[Guest mbarz]

>Well, I'd say that if this response is typical of what you

>normally post, it's not surprising if people don't respond

>well to what you have to say. Pretty simple, really.

>

>BG

 

LOL...that hurt.

[BewareofNick]

>Well, I'd say that if this response is typical of what you

>normally post, it's not surprising if people don't respond

>well to what you have to say. Pretty simple, really.

>

>BG

 

First you say he should have been welcomed, then you lecture him like a little kid, then you turn around and lash out at him. Do you see ANYTHING wrong with that behavior? What was that word you used with the h??

[BewareofNick]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

>Very gentlemanly Boston Guy, you and Lucky are fine examples

>of what this site stands for, HooBoy would be proud.

 

mbarz,

 

Internet bullying comes in many forms. Some of it is loud and obnoxious and in your face, but you definitely know what it is. Some of it is veiled in innuendo and sarcasm, and as you can see from this thread, we have several members here who are very skilled in this form of bullying. Interestingly enough, these are the same people who decry the first form of bullying, which in itself is a subtle form of that which they decry.

[woodlawn]

RE: Proud of Taylor

 

>>Each and every poster who has lectured and rebuked you here

>>has committed enough crimes that he would spend the better

>>part of his remaining years in jail if he was convicted and

>>sentenced for each offense.

 

>Yeah, right. In most jurisdictions in the US, soliciting a

>prostitute is a misdemeanor. In many jurisdictions, the

>penalty is a fine.

 

You don't know what you are talking about. In almost every state, the penalty for prostitution is up to a year in jail. That is true in your own state of Massachusetts (see M.G.L. Ch. 272, Sec. 53A), for example. You really should apologize for using this message board to spread misinformation. It is extremely irresponsible of you.

 

If you were convicted and sentenced for every count of prostitution you have in fact committed -- and let's assume you got only half the maximum sentence rather than the maximum in each case -- how many years would that add up to?

 

> Of course, in truth,

>there is no logical basis for your claim that people who hire

>an escort "have no respect for the values and beliefs of their

>neightbors and fellow citizens."

 

The fact is that the law you have defied again and again was enacted by a democratic political process and reflects the values of the people in your community. There is no way to reconcile your knowing and deliberate decision to defy that law over and over and over again with the statement that you respect the values of those who support it or the process by which it was enacted; logically, both of those things cannot be true.

 

> It's just a non sequitur

>that you like to parade out from time to time. It sounds good

>and evidently you think that if you say it often enough people

>will begin to believe it.

 

I wish you were as honest as raife, who freely admits that he has no respect for the law he is defying or the process by which it was enacted. But you're not.

 

>>The proper reaction to

>>their sanctimonious cant is derisive laughter,

 

>I suppose you are willing to offer the same advice regarding

>any person who has committed a misdemeanor

 

I am willing to say, and will continue to say, that it is ridiculous when someone like you, who knowingly and deliberately and repeatedly violates criminal laws for no more elevated purpose than his own amusement, presumes to rebuke others for being unruly or disrespectful. If you ever decide to be honest, you will have to admit that the habitues of this message board are a bunch of scofflaws and sex offenders, and that it could hardly be more absurd for any of them to lecture young people or any people on dignity or propriety. You want to have it both ways -- you want to ignore any laws or rules you find inconvenient while damning others for doing the same thing. I won't let you have it both ways. Get used to it.

[woodlawn]

RE: Devolution

 

Jackhammer, you have been reading and posting here for years. I recall a thread you started long ago in which you announced that you were leaving the board out of frustration that your efforts to create what you consider a 'positive' tone here had failed. Needless to say, you were back within a few days.

 

I don't know if you recall the responses your thread drew. Your post here sounds as though you don't. I recall one from Will that I thought very sound. I apologize to him if I'm in any way mischaracterizing his remarks, but as I recall he said that you should realize that you are mixing with a diverse group of people here, and that while all of them may share your interest in escorts to some degree, some of them do not share your values and thus do not agree with your definition of what constitutes a 'positive' contribution to this board; you are not likely to change what they believe by telling them they are wrong any more than evangelical Christians are likely to change you by telling you that you are wrong. I'd like to associate myself with his remarks, assuming I have portrayed them accurately.

 

You've taken it upon yourself in this thread to tell other posters what you think their problem is, so I am sure you won't object if I do the same for you. You, BG and the other apostles of 'civility' here just can't seem to accept the fact that there are people in the world who do not agree with your values and who have a point of view that seems just as valid to them as yours does to you. Like the evangelicals, you take the position that there is only one 'right' way to behave and that if someone does not behave that way this means there is something wrong with him as a person. In taking that position you are crossing the line that Hooboy drew between disagreement and debate on the one hand and personal attack on the other hand. Not content with saying you don't agree with another's opinion, you go on to say that because you don't agree this means there is something wrong with him as a person. If you, BG and the rest are not going to respect this dividing line, then why on earth would you think it fitting to complain that others do not respect it?

 

You really cannot continue to lecture people on the importance of obeying rules that you yourselves do not obey. And while you may break these rules less often than some others, is there some magic number of transgressions that makes you 'better' than they for that reason? If you are not going to be honest with others here then at least try being honest with yourselves.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Woodlution

 

I think all that anyody is asking is to cut the personal insults and lower the tone around here. It is hard to do when guys draped in the Confederate flag prance around whining about how they are being mistreated. When one goes to escortjab, just about every thread brims with insults. So maybe the rebels should just stay there.

 

But they can't. Even joel is back, along with taylor, mbarez, and BofN. No one reads them over there, so they come back here to get attention. I haven't posted over there since Doug shot his load watching that head shatter.

 

Ultimately though, we are all here for reasons of our own. One thing woddie and I have in common is that we post for our own entertainment. And I have learned to ignore certain people.

[jackhammer91406]

Mirror

 

Well,

This drew the responses I expected.

 

I think it is fair to say that nowhere in my original post is it stated or inferred that I expect everyone or even anyone to agree with me. The thoughts in my post were clearly expressed as my opinion and should not be taken as anything other than that.

 

In fact, one of the things I did say was that I enjoyed the exchange of ideas and information with other posters from around the world. Part of that enjoyment is directly related to the diversity of those posters.

 

I do recall the very post you referred to and yes all that you say about it is true. What isn’t said is that many responses had suggestions that would enable a new poster like me to adapt and grow in my usage. There were also some who encouraged me to rethink my position (which obviously I did). But I understand that from your point of view, it makes a much better character slam to call attention to a flaw than to acknowledge any change that results from putting a magnifying glass to the flaw. You seem to go out of your way to make a point that changing one’s mind is somehow forbidden. Is it possible that you aren’t interested in my taking your advice at all? Is your point of view so bereft of validity that you aren’t trying to help me improve myself by providing me with your knowledge, opinion and years of experience? It’s ok.

 

Now, where you lose me is that you presume that I presume some superiority. Not true. Plain and Simple.

 

If you look at the main thrust of my post, it expressed an opinion about how many threads turn into mud fests .

 

I appreciate your thoughtful response. However, there are differences between our two approaches to interaction. I tried to focus on the behavior, you tried to focus on the posters and their behavior. I guess it’s a distinction without a difference to some. Not to me.

 

I am not against disagreement, but you can surely learn a thing or two about how to win people over to your opinion. Beating the one note drum of hypocrisy isn’t likely to be near enough.

 

I often appreciate your intellect and , yes, even your humor on occasion. I think you make good points at times, and I don’t even have a problem with you deciding to appoint yourself as the conscience of this board. It’s sure to be a tough job and I know I don’t want it.

 

If you think about it, freedom (even freedom of speech) comes at a price. It’s not enough to simply say crude and rude remarks like someone with Turrets. To have real freedom, an idea, truth or reality has to have merit and be attractive enough to persuade. Otherwise, it’s just noise designed to either offend, hurt or disgrace another human being. I don’t think that is what you are advocating is it?

 

After all, you are about much more than just being someone who cries Hypocrite at the drop of a hat. You have opinions on other subjects besides who is a hypocrite. If you are going to be honest, really honest, you will have to address your penchant for tearing down others , otherwise you give the appearance of being just as self righteous and superior as those you would criticize.

 

Anyway, thanks for the remarks and appreciate you tempering yourself in addressing me and my failures. I have seen you be much crueler, so I am grateful.

 

Have a nice day

[raife]

Revolution

 

Damn I'm agreeing with WL to some degree. Maybe I am a Pod Person.

 

I count at least 5 [a href=http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id641/pg2/]vMEMEs[/a] (values-attracting meta memes - I just call them memes) roaming around these parts: [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#hedonists]hedonists[/a], [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#traditionalists]traditionalists[/a], [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#rationalists]rationalists[/a], [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#pluralists]pluralists[/a] ,and [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#integralists]integralists[/a]. (haven't seen any [a href=http://www.joe-perez.com/2005/05/6-major-stages-of-rising-up.html#tribalists]tribalists[/a] but I know they're out there somewhere). Each with their own worldview, each with their own interpretation of the escort experience and each thinking their view is the One True View (except integralists, who damn well know better). There is going to be friction, that much is inevitable, it's how we handle it and lube up the social gearworks that distinguishes us as a community.

 

It behooves the further evolved among us to set the tone for the up-and-coming guys, encourage a sense of community, reassure the meek and timid, and push the "Alert" button if need be.

 

The tone of the board is definitely improving... I'm seeing "Charter Members" with less than 50 posts or so to their name come around, and there seem to be quite a few new guys... The recipe is close... there just needs to be some tweaking here and there.

 

One of the problems was this site was concieved a team effort... HooBoy was the charismatic front guy and Daddy and company were the expert admins who were content to stay out of the limelight. We've still got the web experts, m4m just needs another limelight guy and front for the site to go out and shake the bushes... There will obviously never be another HooBoy, but that's not to say that HooBoy Jr can't come around!

 

There's definitely a demographic very interested in our topic of record... it will continue to happen here and/or it will happen elsewhere. (I personally am rooting for both) src=http://justusboys.com/forum/images/smilie/icon_biggrin.gif

[Guest 2004]

>>But on the other hand you dont REALLY know anything about

>the people

>>you read online. Perhaps they deserve the benefit of the

>>doubt? There might be a great deal in the real world that

>they

>>might have some reason for pride.

>>

>>Jeff

>>

>

>Jeff:

>

>Nicely said!

>

>It's so easy to forget that there are real, living, breathing,

>thinking people at the ends of these wires. People who come

>from varied pasts to spend some time together at one Internet

>site or another and then go on to whatever the future holds

>for them.

>

>It's easy to poke fun or ridicule people. Easy to forget that

>the guy you're ridiculing might be someone who's old or lonely

>or sick or living someplace where there's no gay community at

>all. Easy to forget that not everyone has easy access to good

>gay friends who can come over for drinks or dinner. Easy to

>forget that many older people grew up in an extremely

>homophobic era, an era that inflicted dark marks on the souls

>of gay people, marks that in many cases linger to today.

>

>It's a cheap shot and a cheap thrill to make fun of someone

>here. But what if that someone has few other outlets for

>communication with gay men? We've had any number of men post

>here that this site was a lifeline for them, a way forward in

>their lives.

>

>But hate and ridicule cause people not to post. It

>discourages the lurkers and occasional posters who, for

>whatever reason, are reluctant to post. And that diminishes

>us all.

>

>I'll say it again: the gay community is supposed to mean

>something. And it's not supposed to mean hating each other

>and tearing each other down and trying to destroy a resource

>that has been an important source of information and contact

>for many men over the past six years.

>

>The guys who come here and put people down do it for reasons

>of their own. I don't begin to understand what those are.

>But I find it hard to understand how they can feel good about

>themselves when they look themselves in the mirror each

>morning. Do they congratulate themselves for hurting other

>guys? Do they think that they were especially clever the day

>before for shutting down yet one more conversation or

>hijacking yet one more thread that was important to someone?

>Do they care at all about the people who are on the receiving

>ends of their barbs and arrows? Or are they so self-centered

>that the feelings of other people simply do not matter to

>them?

>

>As you wrote, they know NOTHING about the people who come

>here. They know nothing, especially, about the casual posters

>and those who do not post at all because they don't want to

>become part of the flames.

>

>It easy to dismiss these people, I guess, and say that they

>need to have more backbone. I't suggest, instead, that those

>who constantly ridicule and flame others might strive for more

>compassion. It's an oddly uncommon thing to find here these

>days.

>

>BG

 

Stretch, Yawn, BG are you trying for another award :7

 

---/

Go on and say it you think of me as a has been, your past, well I have a future too, just you wait and see.

[Guest 2004]

I vote to change the thread's topic from evolution to devolution, now whip it whip it good

 

---/

What? you're telling me people to plaster my name about anymore.

[woodlawn]

RE: Mirror

 

>But I understand that from your point of view, it makes a

>much better character slam to call attention to a flaw than to

>acknowledge any change that results from putting a magnifying

>glass to the flaw. You seem to go out of your way to make a

>point that changing one’s mind is somehow forbidden. Is it

>possible that you aren’t interested in my taking your advice

>at all?

 

Although I haven't said so thus far in this thread, I do find it rather amusing when people here make some big, dramatic announcement to the effect that they're "never" going to do such-and-such again, only to reverse themselves and do that exact thing a few days or hours later. Changing one's mind is not forbidden. But there are ways of expressing oneself that make one look silly, and people who behave in the way I have described certainly look silly to me. As to my advice, I have given you none to take. I have merely pointed out how inappropriate it is for you to complain about line-crossing by others when you clearly do not respect the line yourself.

 

>Now, where you lose me is that you presume that I presume some

>superiority. Not true. Plain and Simple.

 

I simply cannot let such a dishonest statement pass. When referring to the posters you disagree with you compare them to "bullies," you wonder what age they are, which is clearly a snide reference to what you perceive as their immaturity, and you also compare them to "barnyard animals." I believe you deliberately employed these locutions to denigrate the people with whom you disagree and I don't believe there is anyone who read your post who did not get that from it. I'm sorry you are not honest enough to admit it.

 

>I appreciate your thoughtful response. However, there are

>differences between our two approaches to interaction. I tried

>to focus on the behavior, you tried to focus on the posters

>and their behavior. I guess it’s a distinction without a

>difference to some. Not to me.

 

I find it very difficult to understand how you can accuse people of "bullying" or of behavior similar to that of "barnyard animals" and at the same time insist you intended no reflection on their character. That simply will not wash and you know it.

 

>I am not against disagreement, but you can surely learn a

>thing or two about how to win people over to your opinion.

>Beating the one note drum of hypocrisy isn’t likely to be near

>enough.

 

I have no desire or intention to win anyone on this board over to my opinions. If anyone takes the trouble to read my opinions, that is enough for me.

 

>I often appreciate your intellect and , yes, even your humor

>on occasion. I think you make good points at times, and I

>don’t even have a problem with you deciding to appoint

>yourself as the conscience of this board. It’s sure to be a

>tough job and I know I don’t want it.

 

You are confusing the fact that I enjoy irony with a desire to act as the conscience of my readers. I plead guilty to the former, but not to the latter.

 

 

> To have real freedom, an

>idea, truth or reality has to have merit and be attractive

>enough to persuade. Otherwise, it’s just noise designed to

>either offend, hurt or disgrace another human being. I don’t

>think that is what you are advocating is it?

 

I must reject your definition of freedom. If someone expresses the belief that God wants him to blow up a skyscraper in order to punish the people in it for being unbelievers, does that "have merit and be attractive enough to persuade?" I think not, and yet expressing this belief is clearly protected by our concept of freedom of speech.

 

 

> If you

>are going to be honest, really honest, you will have to

>address your penchant for tearing down others , otherwise you

>give the appearance of being just as self righteous and

>superior as those you would criticize.

 

As I said, you need to come to terms with the fact that there are people in this world who have values different from yours. The above statement, for example, seems based on your belief that tearing down others is always a bad thing. In my system of values, it is not.

 

>Anyway, thanks for the remarks and appreciate you tempering

>yourself in addressing me and my failures. I have seen you be

>much crueler, so I am grateful.

 

Don't mention it.

[Traveller]

RE: Confidential to taylor's mom

 

> one of the resident dipshits from "bills" site (RAIFE) in,a

>rambling boring way asks in "post #62 of the way i see things

>thread" why we continue to call the misfits populating that

>board....well.....misfits (among other things LOL).

>he provides a list suggesting everything from we are

>homophobes to poverty struck and jealous of the grand social

>life he lives.

 

Lucky,

 

Thanks for posting this. I was in the middle of one of Woodman's posts, read "barnyard animals," got a hard on and my eyes glazed over again until this paste job of taylor's post from the other site. He really is much more amusing over there. Tad too serious here.

 

Later.

 

PS. And the rest of you FOAD. Just joshin'. Really.

[taylorky]

RE: Mirror

 

but you can surely learn a

>thing or two about how to win people over to your opinion.

 

 

and why in the hell would you think we care about"winning people over to our opinion",hell i don't even care if you or anyone else reads what i post.

 

what we do care about is the lack of consistency and fairness of the so called gentlemen on m4m, ie: the most glaring example is the fact that they not only cannot follow the rules of "their"site ,but they refuse to police the violators....bostonguy,lucky,onefinger and others continue to spew venom with no attempt by the head gentleman to control them.

 

what these HYPOCRITES seem to gloss over is the fact that THEY wanted to IMPOSE THEIR standards on the rest of us.

seems like they should be honest enough to admit the have no integrity.