Evolution

[jackhammer91406]

Interesting article in today’s Los Angeles Daily News.

 

The front page headline shouts:

 

BULLIES ACTING OUT ON THE WEB,

Taunting trend takes hold online.

 

The article goes on to say:

 

You’re ugly. You’re fat. You’re a liar.

Such childhood insults, once relegated to the schoolyard, have begun to emerge in what experts say is a new, even more insidious venue: the Internet.

 

The story, which goes on to coin the term Cyberbullying, is of course referring to problem behavior in many middle , Jr, and high schools.

 

It continues:

 

It’s a huge problem and growing by the minute. Cyberbullying is a direct product of boredom, time, and bandwidth times imagination. Kids have nothing else to do and have technology to do something about it.

 

Anyway, it was an interesting read and made me think of some of the mud parties we have had here. Thinking about the possibilities of our little schoolyard, surely no one can have missed the fact that some of our classmates here were so unhappy that they took their equipment and went off to start their own games elsewhere. Some were even invited to withdraw (ahem, tossed from the field).

 

Recently, many familiar names have begun to show up again, and the HE SAID, NO HE SAID, NO HE SAID IT FIRST has started anew.

 

As I worked through the article and then my own thoughts regarding it, I wondered at the actual ages of some of the posters. I mean, it couldn’t be that obvious, could it? That some of these posters are just kids who are growing up here on the playground and getting out their aggressions of some awful antisocial behavior that they experience at school? Naah, too easy.

 

Oh sure, some will say they are only acting righteously to point out the hypocrites among us, thus being justified to throw mud. Often times, the shout of HE DID IT FIRST also acts as justification.

 

Now, I don’t play much in chat rooms and such. In fact, this place is my only outlet. And it’s attraction for me has always been a blend of interaction with other posters and a vast storehouse of information that is shared here about places and people all over the world. The concept that it’s a site devoted to escorts is no longer even relevant, because it is so much more than that.

 

I have already graduated from school. I have learned that some posters here don’t hold any interest for me and so I can avoid them. But more and more in the last week or so, almost every interesting thread has been turned into an argument usually having little or nothing to do with the original thread and featuring a cast of the usual suspects, (along with promos for some freedom of speech site called escortspeak.com).

 

So if I have a point in all of this, I guess it’s this:

Haven’t we as a species evolved past being barnyard animals that have to piss everywhere to mark our territory? Slurs about age and size don’t bother me because they are the weapons of child. It’s not the words that bother me, it’s the behavior and the fact that I feel like I am being held back a few grades and forced to play with my baby sister.

[Boston Guy]

Jack:

 

You hit it exactly on the mark. It's extremely juvenile behavior. In some ways, it's like dealing with children who are acting out. After a while, you find yourself about to respond in the same manner. If you're lucky, you catch yourself before you do. But it's easy to get exasperated and respond in kind.

 

The guys who are doing this show no regard for this site -- in fact, they're quite open in their disdain for it. They show no regard for their follow posters. They carry hurt feelings and grudges around with them and post in what appears to be an attempt to say "Well, I'll show you!" -- kind of like trying to ruin other people's party.

 

They like to call other people hypocrites. I wonder if any of them have looked in a mirror recently? And then they wonder why other people here don't respect them. Pretty much like seventh grade.

 

And, the odd thing is, if they came back and actually posted in a reasonable manner, everyone else would welcome them back. Oh, well.

 

BG

[Guest Fisher]

Jack,

 

So true.

 

I think bullying on the internet is

unfortunately a sign of the times.

We see rude, dismissive, mean spirited,

behavior on T.V. especially, with the

24-hour news cable, from politicians

and so called pundits. No one with a

different opinion is ever mistaken they

are “corrupt”, “delusional”, “idiotic”,

“racist” “a Nazi” and/or “anti-American”.

 

I think many of these cyber bullies get

their cues from T.V. The internet is the

perfect realm for these bullies to operate.

You do have to pity them because they were

probably physically bullied when younger

and are probably still intimidated by many

things/people in their life. While I’m sure

some may be well adjusted and only post the

things they post because they like lobbing a

grenade and then watch the dust settle, most

however, are probably timid lads whose only

venue to vent their frustrations is to bully

on the internet because of the anonymity/safety

it provides. What is funny is that some of these

bullies actual seem intelligent, some write

articulately, some make good and logical points.

Unfortunately they have to end their post

(be it a logical, thoughtout point, or a

pontificating diatribe)with insults.

 

Eventhough it is hard, it is probably best

to ignore them.

 

Cheers,

Fisher

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

When is the News not exactly news?

 

The only newsworthy aspect of this article is that it made it above the fold on page one of a big city newspaper. The phenomneon is hardly news around here and the rest of the interent. That doesn't take anything away from the thrust of the article, and I guess for those that don't surf the net it is news.

 

The neighborhood has gone down hill. The responsibility is shared among all sectors.

 

So what is there to do about it? Not much. There is no agreement on how to clean it up -- not that agreement is necessary -- and apparently no stomach for obvious actions. Each poster will have to deal with it individually. Fisher is correct: each one should ignore the offensive posts. These types of exchanges feed off responses. No response and the posts and that attitude will die out soon enough. In contrast to Fisher, I don't think this is particularly 'hard'. All it takes is a little mature restraint. However, this is not the first time that tact has been suggested and yet here we are. So while not 'hard' it doesn't seem to be easy either. Maybe the neighborhood isn't really that mature?

[Boston Guy]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

What, us? Surely you jest! :+

 

BG

[bigguyinpasadena]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

Tampa-this is why I WILL NEVER subsribe to the LA times-it is a wretched mess,one step above USA today.

We used to have good daily news papers in this town-no more.

[+ Lucky]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

BigGuy

The article cited by jackhammer is from the LA Daily News, not the Times. Although I agree that the Times is a big mess.

 

But while we are bashing newspapers, how about adding Time and Newsweek in as well? They suck more and more all of the time.

[raife]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

Besides, why kill more trees when you can read for free on the web?

 

I'm with Fisher... I take full ownership and apologize for my share of the mudslinging. Gentlemanly behavior comes from within. It can't be imposed by a set of rules. That kind of thing turns into fascism real quick. Attract gentlemen and you'll have a gentlemanly board, problem solved. I've apologized over there as well and I'll endeavor to be on my best behavior. src=http://radioparadise.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_sorry.gif

 

I like the fact the other board is there. Gives each type of guy his own sandbox so to speak. I'm sure confrontationalists will find this board boring. Excellent, they can go there and confront to their heart's content.

src=http://justusboys.com/forum/images/smilies/good_vs_evil.gif

[taylorky]

so so true...now if some of the people on m4m would stop acting like syphilitic dicks with impacted bowels everything would be fine.

 

and ALL they have too do is follow the rules of THIS site,the rules they claim they want.

[bigguyinpasadena]

ahhhh taylor,the high road as normal

C'mere I gots somethin' fer you!

:9

[JT Brooklyn]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

Raife.."Confront to their Hearts Content" Very Cool I like that Line. Those "Workin Guys" who choose to Pass along their Experiences, while Hanging with a "Named" Client also can continue this Practice. Of course, "Clients" who donot want to be "Discussed" for No Apparent reason, will definitely stay away from Hiring this TYPE of ESCORT. :+

[bigguyinpasadena]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

Now JT,,,,,just stop it.

[jackhammer91406]

Ah Taylor,

you never fail to disappoint. How proud your parents must be....

[raife]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

[blockquote]Raife.."Confront to their Hearts Content" Very Cool I like that Line. Those "Workin Guys" who choose to Pass along their Experiences, while Hanging with a "Named" Client also can continue this Practice. Of course, "Clients" who donot want to be "Discussed" for No Apparent reason, will definitely stay away from Hiring this TYPE of ESCORT.[/blockquote]Yep... because of my past experiences, I have a soft spot for the "wild boys" who may not have the most refined social skills, but you can smell the male pheromones in the air when they approach. I often like 'em edgy and cocky (not that I don't love the angels as well). But married dudes and other [a href=http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1679356]DL[/a] types will obviously want to take this into account when trying to protect their "secret". I always found it interesting that the boys gossiping with each other drove the other guys my way more often than not. I imagine I'm an anomaly because of my fetish.

 

Damn I sometimes miss the heyday of hustler bars. The Internet just tends to sanitize the whole thing too much. src=http://radioparadise.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Guest 2004]

RE: When is the News not exactly news?

 

>Fisher is

>correct: each one should ignore the offensive posts. These

>types of exchanges feed off responses. No response and the

>posts and that attitude will die out soon enough. In contrast

>to Fisher, I don't think this is particularly 'hard'. All it

>takes is a little mature restraint. However, this is not the

>first time that tact has been suggested and yet here we are.

 

That sure is a correct statement. During the years (oh all those years once shinning) that I have visited this mmessage center ignoring posts/postershave not been the answer. Pbviously, if it had been then the problem would not be here.

 

Can anyone imagine what this message center would be like if only the six self appointed civil posters remained? That is why people on this board do not ignore those who might post on the fringe. I have to believe even daddy is up for a little bit of edge now and then. Otherwise, many you the infamous six would write each other to sleep.

 

The answer my friend is blowingin the wind.....

 

---/

So many years shine on, then my number was called, and I was ready for my moment: 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 I could hear the world chant in hundreds of different languages. My heart beat fast, my mind was numb at all the people who stood proud to celebrate me, yes me. Then in a blink of an eye they took it all away from me. I refuse to be just another year. BTW: 1995 was addicted to crack regardless of what he claims.

[taylorky]

>Ah Taylor,

>you never fail to disappoint. How proud your parents must

>be....

 

 

 

YES they certainly are,and i am of them.can the same be said of you and yours.

 

my family has a strong and proud history of honesty and integerity and most importantly moral strength...from the camps during ww2 to the civil rights struggles and war protesting of the 50s and 60s,to serving in both combat and the peace corps during that same period.

 

no matter what differances we have had as a family,we always respected and nutured each other.unlike some of y'all i NEVER had to live in shame as a result of my sexual orientation...my family...all of them...have accepted me and jeff for who and what we are with no questions no qualifactions no restrictions.

 

yep they are proud of me......have no reason not to be.

[Funseeker 22]

For Taylor !!

Whole Board should join in with chorus of - "Glory-Glory - Hallelujah !!!

 

Strange how original posts can change instantly.

[taylorky]

and we have a perfect example of a gentleman....

 

but i can understand how pitiful and lonley it must be for this "gentleman"

[duke37]

>>Ah Taylor,

>>you never fail to disappoint. How proud your parents must

>>be....

>

>

>

>YES they certainly are,and i am of them.can the same be said

>of you and yours.

 

So do you want your parents to read what you write online? Would they be proud of that as well?

 

>

>my family has a strong and proud history of honesty and

>integerity and most importantly moral strength...from the

>camps during ww2 to the civil rights struggles and war

>protesting of the 50s and 60s,to serving in both combat and

>the peace corps during that same period.

>

>no matter what differances we have had as a family,we always

>respected and nutured each other.unlike some of y'all i NEVER

>had to live in shame as a result of my sexual orientation...my

>family...all of them...have accepted me and jeff for who and

>what we are with no questions no qualifactions no

>restrictions.

 

Now I hope you accept the following with all the sincerity that I intend. I hope you pray with gratitude to whatever deity you acknowledge every day, that you have such wonderful supportive parents. However you ought to know even today that such a thing is not the standard. Treasure what you have.

 

>

>yep they are proud of me......have no reason not to be.

 

Really? And with any luck you will never give reason to disappoint them in the conduct of your life. As a parent I might not be terribly thrilled about someone who writes disrespectful things about people undoubtedly older than themselves. I'm sure there are many other things that you do in your life we dont know about that they are proud of. But on the other hand you dont REALLY know anything about the people you read online. Perhaps they deserve the benefit of the doubt? There might be a great deal in the real world that they might have some reason for pride.

 

Jeff

[Funseeker 22]

>and we have a perfect example of a gentleman....

 

Truth Hurts! Someday you will hopefully learn.

I had heard you were a TFB so realize that sometimes reality is unusual for those who are favored. Wish I was in the same posiion.

Best O`Luck.

 

;-)

[taylorky]

a double edged sword my wise friend.

i have always owned every word i have ever uttered,compliments,insults,advice.

i have always accepted the consequences of what i say and how i say it...that is a lesson many of the m4m denizens have never learned,no matter what age they have reached.

[Boston Guy]

>But on the other hand you dont REALLY know anything about the people

>you read online. Perhaps they deserve the benefit of the

>doubt? There might be a great deal in the real world that they

>might have some reason for pride.

>

>Jeff

>

 

Jeff:

 

Nicely said!

 

It's so easy to forget that there are real, living, breathing, thinking people at the ends of these wires. People who come from varied pasts to spend some time together at one Internet site or another and then go on to whatever the future holds for them.

 

It's easy to poke fun or ridicule people. Easy to forget that the guy you're ridiculing might be someone who's old or lonely or sick or living someplace where there's no gay community at all. Easy to forget that not everyone has easy access to good gay friends who can come over for drinks or dinner. Easy to forget that many older people grew up in an extremely homophobic era, an era that inflicted dark marks on the souls of gay people, marks that in many cases linger to today.

 

It's a cheap shot and a cheap thrill to make fun of someone here. But what if that someone has few other outlets for communication with gay men? We've had any number of men post here that this site was a lifeline for them, a way forward in their lives.

 

But hate and ridicule cause people not to post. It discourages the lurkers and occasional posters who, for whatever reason, are reluctant to post. And that diminishes us all.

 

I'll say it again: the gay community is supposed to mean something. And it's not supposed to mean hating each other and tearing each other down and trying to destroy a resource that has been an important source of information and contact for many men over the past six years.

 

The guys who come here and put people down do it for reasons of their own. I don't begin to understand what those are. But I find it hard to understand how they can feel good about themselves when they look themselves in the mirror each morning. Do they congratulate themselves for hurting other guys? Do they think that they were especially clever the day before for shutting down yet one more conversation or hijacking yet one more thread that was important to someone? Do they care at all about the people who are on the receiving ends of their barbs and arrows? Or are they so self-centered that the feelings of other people simply do not matter to them?

 

As you wrote, they know NOTHING about the people who come here. They know nothing, especially, about the casual posters and those who do not post at all because they don't want to become part of the flames.

 

It easy to dismiss these people, I guess, and say that they need to have more backbone. I't suggest, instead, that those who constantly ridicule and flame others might strive for more compassion. It's an oddly uncommon thing to find here these days.

 

BG

[BewareofNick]

>They like to call other people hypocrites. I wonder if any of

>them have looked in a mirror recently? And then they wonder

>why other people here don't respect them. Pretty much like

>seventh grade.

>

>And, the odd thing is, if they came back and actually posted

>in a reasonable manner, everyone else would welcome them back.

> Oh, well.

 

Unfortunately, BG, that is simply not true. In my case, I have come back and posted in a reasonable manner, and I have been subjected to a lot of unwarranted abuse and snide remarks. You yourself have even commented to the effect that there is some sort of conspiracy amongst the posters designated "The Mean Girls Club". If this is your definition of reasonable, then I must confess to not recognizing that particular definition of the word.

 

Indeed to define these fora as a gentleman's club, and then to subject me to such treatment, would seem to be the very definition of hypocrisy.

 

Perhaps it is time for EVERYONE to look in the mirror.

[BewareofNick]

http://www.foxnews.com/images/headers/fnc_logo.gif

[woodlawn]

RE: Proud of Taylor

 

>yep they are proud of me......have no reason not to be.

 

Taylor, your parents have every reason to be proud of you. Unlike some, you are not foolish enough to listen to men who reject the rules and conventions of the society in which they were raised when they lecture you on the importance of obeying rules and conventions.

 

Each and every poster who has lectured and rebuked you here has committed enough crimes that he would spend the better part of his remaining years in jail if he was convicted and sentenced for each offense. These are people who have no respect for the values and beliefs of their neighbors and fellow citizens -- but they have the colossal nerve to condemn you for being disrespectful toward total strangers whom you meet on an anonymous message board. The proper reaction to their sanctimonious cant is derisive laughter, and I am proud to see you have reacted properly. Kudos.