Addiction Treatment

[+ MostlyLurking]

This is a thread to continue the discussion of constructive ways to respond to addiction in general, previously carried on in the thread called Thoughts on Sex Addiction. Please keep postings respectful. Please recognize the limits of your own knowledge and the existence of valid perspectives other than your own.

 

While I've been in therapy forever, I have never participated in twelve-step or any other form of addiction treatment. My familiarity is limited to what I've picked up by growing up with an alcoholic mother and by living 45 years in the Gay community. And of course from what I've learned in the prior thread.

 

Let me propose a consensus position as a possible framework for continued discussion. Addiction is powerful, constructive, and wily. There are no guaranteed cures. Treatments which work for some people may not work for others.

 

Twelve-step can be helpful for some people. Important elements for some people may include fellowship and an accepting environment. Some AA meetings may emphasize teachings and perspectives that can go beyond recovery to wisdom, as illustrated in the book "One Breath at a Time." On the other hand, many meetings are dogmatic and, however compassionate they may be about addiction, are mercilessly bigoted about other things, including notably sex and sexual orientation. Participation in these meetings can be deadly, particularly for LGBTQ people in general - and perhaps for escorts and clients in particular.

 

Other forms of treatment, including notably medication and various modalities of talk therapy, can also be helpful for some people. These forms may be more easily studied and quantified than 12-step, but analysis and research remain preliminary, there is no consensus on a best-practices, and good models for studying addiction and treatment are elusive.

[Rocky93]

AA and 12 Step Meetings are not that dreadful!!! They have Gay AA and AA for LGBTG addicts!!

[+ newguy]

AA and 12 Step Meetings are not that dreadful!!! They have Gay AA and AA for LGBTG addicts!!

Is there a special website for Gay AA and LGBT(G?) addicts?

[OneFinger]

Is there a special website for Gay AA and LGBT(G?) addicts?

 

A quick Goggle search brought this site:

 

http://gal-aa.org/meetings/meeting-listing/

 

I did a quick search for the 3 cities where I have homes (Salt Lake City, Portland, and San Diego). My whole day could be occupied in either of these cities with the number of gay / LGBT groups that are offered. There's even a group in San Diego for leather guys who want AA.

[+ Kman]

The SAA 12 step site has lists of all the meetings in your city and also if they are specific for the LGBT community

 

https://saa-recovery.org/Meetings/UnitedStates/

[MikeBiDude]

Is there a special website for Gay AA and LGBT(G?) addicts?

Not sure where you live, but around me there are lots and lots of LGBT 12 step programs/meetings including of course AA and many many others. Free, and if you feel you're in a bigoted meeting or uncomfortable, move on to Another group and meeting!!!

[+ WilliamM]

AA and 12 Step Meetings are not that dreadful!!!

 

That is personal judgment that only each individual can make on their own.

 

I volunteered on a child abuse hotline for 5 years. We occasionally had group volunteer meetings that were likely far less personal than AA meetings. But, they were still very intense.

 

That was the reason I decided to stop both drinking and also smoking on my own. I have not smoked since 1976. Now I can occasionally drink without ever drinking enough to get drunk.

[Arbimuscle]

Speaking from personal experience on addiction. The one thing that still hits home to this day, the anachronism for yet: you're eligible to. The one thing that is a given, the minute you say that you would never do something, you're setting yourself up to do it. So don't judge other people because you don't want people judging you

[+ Gar1eth]

Speaking from personal experience on addiction. The one thing that still hits home to this day, the anachronism for yet: you're eligible to. The one thing that is a given, the minute you say that you would never do something, you're setting yourself up to do it. So don't judge other people because you don't want people judging you

I apologize but I don't understand your second sentence. As for AA, I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I doubt I could do any 12 Step Programs due to their core belief of trusting to a higher power. I'm very ambivalent about my belief in G-d. I'd like there to be a kindly fellow upstairs, and hope it's not a vengeful one. But I have trouble believing in one. I've read about addiction treatment groups that dispense with the higher power tenet. And if, or when, I need such a group, that's the type I'd seek out 1st.

 

Gman

[+ WilliamM]

I apologize but I don't understand your second sentence.

 

I do not understand his second sentence either. Perhaps it is a core belief of AA.

[Arbimuscle]

Yet: you're eligible too. Basically, anyone who says that they cannot become addicted, is a fool. Anytime anyone says well they've yet to do something like that. Do an 8-ball, drink a bottle of vodka, whatever! Anyone is capable of falling into the trap of addiction, especially when u deny that u are capable of it.

[Arbimuscle]

Hopefully, that makes more sense. It's just the one thing from rehab, that has stuck with me for 20 years. It keeps me grounded. I know, that in anything I do, good or bad, that I am eligible for the consequences. So, I try not to judge people, because I know that given the right circumstances, I could do the same thing.

[MikeBiDude]

As for AA, I think I mentioned this in another thread, but I doubt I could do any 12 Step Programs due to their core belief of trusting to a higher power.

Well, Gman...there's a lot more to "higher power", doesn't necessarily mean "God", although it does to many.

 

You know there is a very popular chapter in the AA Blue book named "We Agnostics". There are also atheist AA meetings just about everywhere.

[Arbimuscle]

And sorry folks, it's late, I was trying to say "acronym"

[Arbimuscle]

5th grade education fails me all the time

[+ Gar1eth]

Well, Gman...there's a lot more to "higher power", doesn't necessarily mean "God", although it does to many.

 

You know there is a very popular chapter in the AA Blue book named "We Agnostics". There are also atheist AA meetings just about everywhere.

 

Yes but my understanding (which might be faulty) is that you acknowledge some power outside and beyond yourself. But if it's an impersonal power, then why should you put your 'faith' in it, or even think about it, as since it's impersonal, it has no interest in you. And if it's some type of personal/interested power, wouldn't that be G-d no matter what you call it? I mean I'd love to believe my Father is out there somewhere, healthy, and watching over me rather than a total cessation of being. But I don't think I can believe that.

 

As an example-my cousin contributed a beautiful poem at the funeral that my brother read. I don't know the title, but here it is.

 

When I am gone, release me, let me go

I have so many things to see and do

You mustn't tie yourself to me with tears

Be happy that we had so many years.

I gave you my love, you can only guess

How much you gave to me in happiness

I thank you for the love you each have shown

But now it's time I traveled on alone.

So grieve a while for me if grieve you must

Then let your grief be comforted by trust

It's only for a while that we must part

So bless the memories within your heart.

I won't be far away, for life goes on

So if you need me, call me and I will come

Though you can't see me or touch me I'll be near

All of my love around you soft and clear.

And then, when you must come this way alone

I'll greet you with a smile and say

"Welcome Home"

 

 

It was beautiful. Both my brother and cousin said it had meaning for them. While I thought the poem was pretty, it didn't affect me the same way. The dead aren't traveling. They are gone to exist only in memory. The poem depressed me. If my Father were really out there traveling, then I'd want him to find a map to lead him back here.

 

I am not trying to belittle AA teachings-just saying from my limited understanding, I doubt they'd work for me.

 

Gman

Edited April 23, 2017 by Gar1eth

[+ sniper]

Yet: you're eligible too. Basically, anyone who says that they cannot become addicted, is a fool. Anytime anyone says well they've yet to do something like that. Do an 8-ball, drink a bottle of vodka, whatever! Anyone is capable of falling into the trap of addiction, especially when u deny that u are capable of it.

Yet isn't it true that only 10% of cocaine users become addicted? I think there are definitely people for whom it's far far easier to become addicted than others. But the fact is it's less a moral failing than an issue of the person's particular brain wiring/genetic makeup.

I do not like the taste of alcohol and therefore have never drunk enough to feel its effects. But there are enough alcoholics in my family tree that I've never really made any effort to work past the taste issue.

[LADoug1]

Yet: you're eligible too. Basically, anyone who says that they cannot become addicted, is a fool. Anytime anyone says well they've yet to do something like that. Do an 8-ball, drink a bottle of vodka, whatever! Anyone is capable of falling into the trap of addiction, especially when u deny that u are capable of it.

 

I would change anyone to almost anyone.

[LADoug1]

Well, Gman...there's a lot more to "higher power", doesn't necessarily mean "God", although it does to many.

 

You know there is a very popular chapter in the AA Blue book named "We Agnostics". There are also atheist AA meetings just about everywhere.

 

Good to know about Atheist meetings. Didn't know they existed.

[LADoug1]

My higher power is myself. I take responsibility for my actions. When I attend an Alanon or Codependents Anonymous meeting this is how I interpret the higher power concept.

[+ WilliamM]

Yet: you're eligible too. Basically, anyone who says that they cannot become addicted, is a fool. Anytime anyone says well they've yet to do something like that. Do an 8-ball, drink a bottle of vodka, whatever! Anyone is capable of falling into the trap of addiction, especially when u deny that u are capable of it.

 

My mother's large family grew up with a history of alcoholism, especially from my grandfather and my oldest uncle. I do not remember my mother or her three sisters ever drinking. My two youngest uncles were very careful. So am I now even after 40 years of being sober.

[Arbimuscle]

Ladoug, I will stick with anyone. Because, if you u deny that u are capable of doing something, u are setting yourself up. Anyone, under the right circumstances, is capable of making the wrong decision. Be it drugs, alcohol, sex, murder, lie cheat or steal. It is human weakness. I will not debate the issue of a higher power. That is truly a personal decision. But man, is inherently flawed, it's in us all to make mistakes. We just have to realize, that we all are capable. And God only knows that I have continued to make mistakes. I am a flawed human being, who is inherently weak. I just have to realize, that I am eligible to make mistakes. I cannot deny that fact. I just have to try not to. But, sometimes my 5th grade education fails me. I still to this day, pay for my addiction. I just hope it has made me a better person. I just firmly believe that if u stop denying that u are yet to do something. That it will help you make better decisions. Because we are ALL capable of making the wrong decision. I just hope that this helps someone else. Damn, I am getting deep.

[Kenny]

My higher power is myself. I take responsibility for my actions. When I attend an Alanon or Codependents Anonymous meeting this is how I interpret the higher power concept.

I don't quite understand. The higher power concept is the acknowledgment that there is "a power greater than me." So how can the higher power also be me?

 

Grandiosity is a primary hurdle in recovery. I mean, I do think I can be a part of that power, but not be the power (if I'm making myself clear). What do you think?

[LADoug1]

I don't quite understand. The higher power concept is the acknowledgment that there is "a power greater than me." So how can the higher power also be me?

 

Grandiosity is a primary hurdle in recovery. I mean, I do think I can be a part of that power, but not be the power (if I'm making myself clear). What do you think?

 

I don't think that I am being grandiose. I'm just saying that because I'm an atheist I have trouble with the concept of a higher power when it is interpreted as that being God. The Serenity Prayer begins with God. That's a turnoff for me. I prefer to think that my God is personal and the power to change is within myself. And I'm not saying I AM God or that I realm over over others. Now THAT is grandiosity!

[AdamSmith]

I don't think that I am being grandiose. I'm just saying that because I'm an atheist I have trouble with the concept of a higher power when it is interpreted as that being God. The Serenity Prayer begins with God. That's a turnoff for me. I prefer to think that my God is personal and the power to change is within myself. And I'm not saying I AM God or that I realm over over others. Now THAT is grandiosity!

The Higher Power bullshit is an entire ridiculous product of AA having been cooked up in the 1930s, by two lay not even doctors, based on what tattered remains of the very real, very spiritually valid Cain Ridge Revival in the 1830s yet still lived so very many decades longer still in the American spirit. And yet today!

 

That very great Americanization of Christianity was welcome, needed, and indeed required!

 

But AA is not. It is only and horribly a "Church" that wants to preserve and extend its power, against the face of all clinical evidence that its "principles" are a vastly, deadly, connivance against the interests of its sincere, needing, desperate supplicants.

 

A more horrible power play -- for no benefit whatever to its "winners" -- has seldom ever been seen.

Edited April 25, 2017 by AdamSmith