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Islam Is Different


Gar1eth
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I just read this. I'm not that big a fan of Bill Maher. I think he is really impressed with himself- of course that could also be said about David Letterman, Jon Stewart, and I'm sure many others. But you can't deny that Bill does seem to be a bright guy. And this is from Fox Nation. But I guess even they can get something right occasionally.

 

Gman

 

 

Bill Maher ABSOLUTELY CRUSHES Charlie Rose For Comparing Islam To Christianity

 

 

BILL MAHER: I saw Howard Dean on TV the other day and he said something along the order, he said the people in ISIS -- he said I'm about as Islamic as they are, you know, distancing the vast numbers of Islamic people around the world from them. That's just not true.

 

CHARLIE ROSE: It is true.

 

MAHER: It is not true, Charlie. There is a connecting tissue between --

 

ROSE: Behind every Muslim is a future member of some radical?

 

MAHER: Let me finish.

 

ROSE: I was doing that.

 

MAHER: There are illiberal beliefs that are held by vast numbers of Muslim people that --

 

ROSE: A vast number of Christians too.

 

MAHER: No, that's not true. Not true. Vast numbers of Christians do not believe that if you leave the Christian religion you should be killed for it. Vast numbers of Christians do not treat women as second class citizens. Vast numbers of Christians --

 

ROSE: I agree with that --

 

MAHER: -- do not believe if you draw a picture of Jesus Christ you should get killed for it. So yes, does ISIS do Khmer Rouge-like activities where they just kill people indiscriminately who aren't just like them? Yes. And would most Muslim people in the world do that or condone that? No.

 

ROSE: No.

 

MAHER: But most Muslim people in the world do condone violence just for what you think.

 

ROSE: How do you know that?

 

MAHER: They do. First of all they say it. They shout it.

 

ROSE: Vast majorities of Muslims say that?

 

MAHER: Absolutely. There was a Pew poll in Egypt done a few years ago -- 82% said, I think, stoning is the appropriate punishment for adultery. Over 80% thought death was the appropriate punishment for leaving the Muslim religion. I'm sure you know these things.

 

ROSE: Well I do. But I don't believe --

 

MAHER: So to claim that this religion is like other religions is just naive and plain wrong. It is not like other religious. The New York Times pointed out in an op-ed a couple weeks ago that in Saudi Arabia just since August 4th, they think it was, they have beheaded 19 people. Most for non-violent crimes including homosexuality.

 

ROSE: I know that they cut the hands off the thief.

 

MAHER: Right, okay, so we're upset that ISIS is beheading people which we should be upset about but Saudi Arabia does it and they're our good friends because they have oil. Okay. But they do it too. This is the center of the religion. I'm not saying -

 

ROSE: But they're now fighting against ISIS too. They're joining us in the fight. As is the Emirates. As is Jordan. They are all Muslim countries.

 

MAHER: Well, they are both fighting ISIS and they are for ISIS.

 

ROSE: Well, it's not the government. I mean, some of them --

 

MAHER: Certainly the governments.

 

ROSE: It's a bit like today about Qatar. The big story today in The New York Times about Qatar. And some guy there is supporting, who is a Muslim --

 

MAHER: But I mean in Mecca where infidels, non-Muslims, are not even allowed in the holy parts of the city. I mean, right there, we don't have that example in other religions. They do behead people. Now if they were beheading people in Vatican City, which is the equivalent of Mecca, don't you think there would be a bigger outcry about it? So this is the soft bigotry of low expectations with Muslim people. When they do crazy things and believe crazy things, somehow it's not talked about nearly as much.

 

ROSE: Would you come to the table and debate this with a moderate Muslim?

 

MAHER: Find one, yes. Find one.

 

ROSE: I promise you I'll find one.

 

MAHER: Find a Muslim --

 

ROSE: I do believe that what we see with ISIS is not representative of --

 

MAHER: As I said, connecting tissue.

 

ROSE: -- not representative of the Islamic religion. I don't think the Koran teaches them to do these kinds of things.

 

MAHER: Well you're wrong about that. The Koran absolutely has on every page stuff that's horrible about how the infidels should be treated. But for example again ISIS says that they should perform genital mutilation on all women 11-46. Would most Muslims agree with that? No. Or carry it out? No.

 

But as Ayaan Hirsi Ali points out, she says --

 

ROSE: I wouldn't expect for her to --

 

MAHER: And she would know better than --

 

ROSE: Exactly.

 

MAHER: But can we really say --

 

ROSE: She's been a victim.

 

MAHER: -- women are treated equally in the Muslim world? I mean, their testimony in court is very often counted as half. They need permission to leave the house in some places.

 

ROSE: But a lot of moderate Muslims would say in fact one of the things that we need to modernize is the idea of the way we treat women.

 

MAHER: But in this country, if you just use the wrong word about women, they go nuts. And all these other countries --

 

ROSE: As they should.

 

MAHER: -- they're doing things like making them wear burqas and I hear liberals say things like, 'they want to.' They want to. They've been brainwashed. It's like saying a street walker wants to do that.

Gman

 

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, The Great Gazoo is always right!!!!

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Thanks for posting Gman. It was a very interesting conversation to say the least.

the greatest beauty is

Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things,

the divine beauty of the universe.

Love that, not man apart from that,

or else you will share man’s pitiful confusions,

or drown in despair when his days darken."

 

- Robinson Jeffers

 

B e l i e v e

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Don't forget the Muslims will kill the homosexuals!

 

Some Southern Baptists want to as well.

 

I think more of them (SBCers) want to convert you to heterosexuality rather than kill you. I also think they are big on 'Love the sinner- hate the sin'.

 

Gman

Gman

 

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, The Great Gazoo is always right!!!!

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I don't know where to begin. First of all, while Bill Maher and I are both left-of-center, he's a lot more accomplished as a comic than he is as a political thinker to the point where I can't stand to watch his TV show. Three-quarters of the so-called "facts" coming out of his mouth (in general, not just here) are either horribly oversimplified or just plain wrong. Second, Maher is, not to make too fine a point of it, being an ignorant bigot here.

 

1. Christendom has been guilty of most or all of these things itself. (Spanish Inquisition, anyone? Salem witch trials?) The fact most of this is now historical rather than current is not a convincing reason for contrasting Christianity with Islam. And where do you think some of the basis for Uganda's anti-gay legislation came from?

 

2. At a time when Christendom was mired in bad hygiene and life truly was nasty, brutish, and short, Muslim Arabs (a) developed algebra and the system of mathematical thinking we use to this day and (b) preserved the works of such thinkers as Aristotle (and possibly Plato -- I'm less sure about him) which would have been lost if it had been left to us in the West (partly because the library at Alexandria burned to the ground). At the time, Muslim countries were far more tolerant than Christian ones. For one thing, they did not engage in the anti-Semitism and pogroms that the West did. In fact, they considered Jews and Christians People of the Book. Maybe lesser, but still on the same playing field as them, as opposed to those who were purely pagan.

 

3. Which leads me to my 20th century example: The largest, most successful genocide in human history was perpetrated by so-called Christians of a major Western European power for quasi-religious reasons. Islamic extremists have a long way to go to equal Nazi Germany's record of killing six million Jews, Romani, homosexuals, and other outcasts.

 

4. There are terrorists from every religious and ethnic group. Christian terrorists? Just look at Atlanta Olympics bomber Eric Rudolph and the murderer of the Buffalo, NY doctor who provided abortions. Jewish terrorists? The man or men involved in the assassination of Yithzak Rabin. (Also, for the record, former Prime Minister and Nobel Peace Prize winner Menachem Began, part of the conspiracy to assassinate Lord Mountbatten.) Hindu terrorists? Just look at the violence that's taken place against Muslims and Christians, including horrific attacks on houses of worship. Terrorism is a HUMAN failing not confined to one religion or group.

 

5. To the extent there may in fact be more extreme, non-democratic views among adherents of Islam vs. Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism (to the extent it can even be classified a religion as apposed to a philosophy), or what have you, this is a function of CULTURE and not RELIGION. How can I say that? 1. History -- as noted above, there was a time when Islam was the tolerant religion and Christianity the warlike, militant one, and 2. Look at the country with the largest Muslim population in the world: Indonesia. It's not as though it has no religious radicals, but they're mostly homegrown. Heard of any Indonesian operatives in al Qaeda, ISIL, or the like? No, because Indonesian culture is not the same as Middle Eastern culture. And even within the Middle East, the culture in, say, Saudi Arabia isn't the same as in Jordan or Lebanon or Iraq.

 

Also, BTW (and somewhat off topic), not all Middle Eastern countries are Arab. Iran isn't; it's Persian.

 

/end rant

Nobody's free until everybody's free - Fannie Lou Hamer

 

Avatar courtesy of Chomiji; character drawn by Kazuya Minekura

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Don't forget the Muslims will kill the homosexuals!

 

Putting things into perspective:

 

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/attachments/comparative-religion/1426d1238447711-religious-opposition-homosexuality-united-states-views-homosexuality.jpg

 

The Buddhists (82%) and the Jews (79%) are the two that are the most accepting of homosexuality.

 

On the other hand: Jehovah's Witnesses (76%), Mormons (68%), Evangelical Churches (64%) and Muslims (61%) are condemning it.

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Have you ever wondered why it's OK to make jokes

about Catholics, the Pope, Jews, Christians, the

Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese, the French

(including French Canadians), the elderly, bad golfers, etc, but its insensitive to make jokes about Muslims?

We need to level the playing field for the sake of political correctness.....

 

Jeff Foxworthy on Muslims:

 

1. If you refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor -

You may be a Muslim.

 

2. If you own a $3,000 machine gun and a $5,000 rocket launcher, but you can't afford shoes -

You may be a Muslim.

 

3. If you have more wives than teeth -

You may be a Muslim.

 

4. If you wipe your butt with your bare hand but consider bacon to be unclean -

You may be a Muslim.

 

5. If you think vests come in two styles: Bullet-proof and suicide -

You may be a Muslim

 

6. If you can't think of anyone you haven't declared jihad against -

You may be a Muslim.

 

7. If you consider television dangerous but routinely carry explosives in your clothing -

You may be a Muslim.

 

8. If you were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs -

You may be a Muslim.

 

9. If you have nothing against women

and think every man should own at least four,

You may be a Muslim.

 

10. If you find this offensive and don't forward it -

You may be a Muslim.

"I ain't here for a long time, I am here for a good time" George Strait

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Have you ever wondered why it's OK to make jokes

about Catholics, the Pope, Jews, Christians, the

Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese, the French

(including French Canadians), the elderly, bad golfers, etc, but its insensitive to make jokes about Muslims?

We need to level the playing field for the sake of political correctness.....

 

Jeff Foxworthy on Muslims:

 

1. If you refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor -

You may be a Muslim.

 

2. If you own a $3,000 machine gun and a $5,000 rocket launcher, but you can't afford shoes -

You may be a Muslim.

 

3. If you have more wives than teeth -

You may be a Muslim.

 

4. If you wipe your butt with your bare hand but consider bacon to be unclean -

You may be a Muslim.

 

5. If you think vests come in two styles: Bullet-proof and suicide -

You may be a Muslim

 

6. If you can't think of anyone you haven't declared jihad against -

You may be a Muslim.

 

7. If you consider television dangerous but routinely carry explosives in your clothing -

You may be a Muslim.

 

8. If you were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs -

You may be a Muslim.

 

9. If you have nothing against women

and think every man should own at least four,

You may be a Muslim.

 

10. If you find this offensive and don't forward it -

You may be a Muslim.

 

Almost laughing too hard to post. Consider the playing field leveled...lol...and for the record, #'s 2, 3 and 4 are about as politically incorrect as it gets.

the greatest beauty is

Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things,

the divine beauty of the universe.

Love that, not man apart from that,

or else you will share man’s pitiful confusions,

or drown in despair when his days darken."

 

- Robinson Jeffers

 

B e l i e v e

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The implication that the philosophy of Nazi Germany had a Christian basis is bogus. Its underpinning was more based on Teutonic Mythology than Christian Mythology. The fact is that many Lutheran ministers and Roman Catholic priests died in Nazi concentration camps because of their outspoken opposition to the Nazi regime.

 

Probably the main political difference between the evolution of the Muslim World and the Christian World is that the Muslim World has never experienced an extended period of the civil politicization as did the Christian World in the nineteenth century. Beginning with the French Revolution in 1789 and extending through-out the nineteenth century the civil religious bonds that had existed for centuries in the Western World were broken.

 

This was not the case in the Muslim Ottoman Empire where the Caliph was both religious and civil head of state. It was not until the end of World War I that at the insistence of Mustafa Kemal (Ataturk) the Caliphate was finally terminated on March 3, 1924.

 

Since the end of World War I the Middle East has been divided between governments that have been either civil/military dictatorships or religious clerical dictatorships. Egypt has traditionally been an outstanding example of a civil/military dictatorship with the military in the end calling the shots. Iran, after the expulsion of the Shah on January 16, 1979 has become the poster child for a religious clerical dictatorship. The Ayatollahs in Iran call the shots not the civil government leaders in Tehran. Saudi Arabia has been something of an odd mixture. The Saudi family has allied itself with the ultraconservative Wahhabi sect and has ruled the country in concert with it.

 

With the claim of ISIS that it has re-established a universal Muslim Caliphate we see a movement attempting to create a universal Muslim religious clerical dictatorship. The nineteenth century in the Western World makes the very thought of the recreation on a universal Apostolic Roman Catholic Church Western World, ruled by the Vicar of Christ, the Pope, not only impossibly but downright silly. It is impossible and silly because of the division of church and state that developed in the nineteenth century in the Western World. The recreation of a universal Muslim Caliphate is likely impossible considering the volatile history of the Middle East: it is not, however, silly. The concept of the division of church and state is NOT a universally accepted concept in the Muslim World.

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The recreation of a universal Muslim Caliphate is likely impossible considering the volatile history of the Middle East: it is not, however, silly. The concept of the division of church and state is NOT a universally accepted concept in the Muslim World.

 

Interesting post and perspective. Thanks. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.png

'If anyone objects to any statement I make, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever made it.' - Tom Lehrer

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Have you ever wondered why it's OK to make jokes

about Catholics, the Pope, Jews, Christians, the

Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Chinese, the French

(including French Canadians), the elderly, bad golfers, etc, but its insensitive to make jokes about Muslims?

We need to level the playing field for the sake of political correctness.....

 

Jeff Foxworthy on Muslims:

 

1. If you refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor -

You may be a Muslim.

 

2. If you own a $3,000 machine gun and a $5,000 rocket launcher, but you can't afford shoes -

You may be a Muslim.

 

3. If you have more wives than teeth -

You may be a Muslim.

 

4. If you wipe your butt with your bare hand but consider bacon to be unclean -

You may be a Muslim.

 

5. If you think vests come in two styles: Bullet-proof and suicide -

You may be a Muslim

 

6. If you can't think of anyone you haven't declared jihad against -

You may be a Muslim.

 

7. If you consider television dangerous but routinely carry explosives in your clothing -

You may be a Muslim.

 

8. If you were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs -

You may be a Muslim.

 

9. If you have nothing against women

and think every man should own at least four,

You may be a Muslim.

 

10. If you find this offensive and don't forward it -

You may be a Muslim.

 

What do you have next - jokes about Jews, Catholics, gays and/or blacks? Which are you so I can find some jokes about your kind? I'm not in the mood to find jokes about gays so share something else about you and I'll see what I can do for you. And Jeff Foxworthy is an idiot. Read a history book or do math to exercise your mind. Two wrongs don't make a right. My 88 year old racist father spam emails stuff like your list, you can be better I hope.

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The concept of the division of church and state is NOT a universally accepted concept in the Muslim World.

 

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/2010-muslim-01-03.png

 

From the 2010 PEW article I cited earlier.

 

Gman

Gman

 

In brightest day, in blackest night, No evil shall escape my sight. Let those who worship evil's might, Beware my power, The Great Gazoo is always right!!!!

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What do you have next - jokes about Jews, Catholics, gays and/or blacks? Which are you so I can find some jokes about your kind? I'm not in the mood to find jokes about gays so share something else about you and I'll see what I can do for you. And Jeff Foxworthy is an idiot. Read a history book or do math to exercise your mind. Two wrongs don't make a right. My 88 year old racist father spam emails stuff like your list, you can be better I hope.

 

When we have a a thread started on 'Different' Jews, Catholics, gays and/or Blacks, I might post a joke section.

"I ain't here for a long time, I am here for a good time" George Strait

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