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Don't sit next to me on a plane! Leg room fight anyone?


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https://gma.yahoo.com/delta-flight-routed-due-passenger-disruption-061107123--abc-news-topstories.html

 

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Liberal, born and raised in Maryland, proud member of pink pistols!

Ignore list: WilliamM

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I saw his letter a few months back. I understand his concern but the gratuitous cruelty was disappointing. I'm sure the passenger had been on many diets and had put himself down for not being able to stick to them. The last thing he needs is more insults. Here's the letter

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4538470

I've looked at life from both sides now

From win and lose and still somehow

It's life's illusions I recall

I really don't know life at all

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I saw his letter a few months back. I understand his concern but the gratuitous cruelty was disappointing. I'm sure the passenger had been on many diets and had put himself down for not being able to stick to them. The last thing he needs is more insults. Here's the letter

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4538470

 

What makes you think the alleged passenger has tried many diets?

 

I think the airline should provide a morbidly obese passenger 2 seats for a discounted price.

Liberal, born and raised in Maryland, proud member of pink pistols!

Ignore list: WilliamM

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What makes you think the alleged passenger has tried many diets?

 

I think the airline should provide a morbidly obese passenger 2 seats for a discounted price.

 

You know what? Whether the passenger has dieted or not or has any realistic ability to affect his weight or not short of surgery (surgery, that I might add, is risky and contraindicated for many who might want it and kills some of those who do try it), no one deserves being described in the terms this man used. (And I could only get through the first paragraph of his letter before quitting in disgust.) Someone once said, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." Well, let him (or her) who is PERFECT say nasty things about his or her fellow human beings. Guess what? None of us are perfect.

 

That doesn't mean the letter writer didn't have a beef with the airline; it means it doesn't give him the right to be profane and make assumptions and assertions about a fellow passenger, such as about his body odor, that read more like gratuitous stereotypes about fat/obese/overweight people than a legitimate description. There were ways to write that letter that made legitimate points about his physical discomfort and paying to obtain extra room without gratuitous insults. He also needs to adjust his expectations; as much as he looked forward to having extra room, in essence all the airline really owed him was the $25 extra he paid to supposedly ensure it and maybe some minor consideration on a future flight for having to sit in a physically restricted space on that one.

 

In a forum dedicated to a group that faces outside prejudice and discrimination, it is bothersome to me to see the perpetuation of negative stereotypes of fat people. (And I don't just mean in this post. It's just the occasion for me to throw a long-brewing hissy fit about it.) Sure, some of them are lazy and/or unfit, but so are some thin people -- something I learned when I took an intensive full-credit modern dance class in college (met 4x a week for an hour and a half each day) and discovered that the girl in that class who was probably the thinnest was also the least fit. Given my personal level of fitness, that's saying a lot.

 

Do I have a personal stake in this? Yes, on both sides. I spent most of my life more or less thin even though I weighed more than someone with a small frame supposedly should according to the life insurance company weight charts. But now not only am I fat/obese/overweight (in fact, I weigh more than I did when I was pregnant), I have muscoloskeletal issues and medical conditions that prevent me from being able to exercise enough to affect my weight much, none of which were directly caused by my weight and all of which predated the weight gain. Because there's not much I can do about my weight and because I was thin (or close enough) most of my life, I have as little of a complex about my weight as I possibly can, and I refuse to act or move like a person apologizing for my very existence, which is the attitude some around here seem to think fat people should adopt. That doesn't mean I don't look in the mirror and wish I were thinner and able to wear more varied clothing styles; I'm as vain as the next person, and I'll readily admit that fat and fat bodies are not as aesthetically pleasing to look at. But let's not confuse aesthetics with principles, worth, or value.

 

In addition, research shows that most people who lose significant amounts of weight are unable to keep the weight off and yo-yo dieting is worse for one's health than carrying a steady amount of excess weight is. Weight is a factor in fewer medical conditions that you might think. It's general health, and not excess weight, that's more of a factor. And finally, and most importantly (for me, anyway), for many the effort required to lose weight and keep it off effectively amounts to an obsession that is hard to distinguish from an eating disorder. How is that mentally healthy?

 

As for the 2 seat idea? That's a non-starter because (a) the airline is not going to want to be in the business of judging who's too obese to fit in a seat; (b) no passenger is going to do that either; and © if it's not possible to raise or otherwise remove the armrest between two seats, there is no real purpose to giving someone two seats. To the extent the airline can't work around crowding by moving people around, being stuck next to an overweight passenger is not, imo, a whole lot different from being stuck in front of a kid who kicks the back of your seat, near a wailing baby, or behind someone who pushes their seat back so far that you don't have any leg room.

 

Life isn't always fair. As long as life's unfairness falls on you randomly (in other words, you're not being singled out because you're gay or black or female or whatever), my advice to people like the letter writer (who comes across as entitled and stuck on himself) is to please get over yourself.

Nobody's free until everybody's free - Fannie Lou Hamer

 

Avatar courtesy of Chomiji; character drawn by Kazuya Minekura

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Well, I'm sorry, but it is not an issue of fat or thin, it is an issue of safety. The man in the first picture is clearly blocking the aisle, and that is a safety impediment. I faced that once on an even smaller plane, and simply refused to sit behind the man. His choice is to drive, take the bus, or a train. Not to impede fellow passengers.

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Well, I'm sorry, but it is not an issue of fat or thin, it is an issue of safety. The man in the first picture is clearly blocking the aisle...

 

Disabled passengers and passengers with limited mobility (a broken leg for instance) are usually placed in a window seat. I know that because a friend of mine broke his leg while on vacation and had to fly back home. Sometimes driving, taking the bus or train is simply not an option.

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As a physician, and one who works with weight issues, I agree strongly with QTR.

When attempting to lose weight becomes an obsession it is not healthy. especially if the heavy person happens to be healthy in most other respects. Believe it or not, though most obese people are risking diabetes, high blood pressure, and on and on, there are actually some obese people who are healthier than most other non-obese people.

And there are often medical conditions which cause the weight gain and will not allow the weight loss.

That's what makes the world go round.

 

I've been stuck (and that is the word,) next to and between obese people on flights, dressed appropriately and with good hygiene, and the only problem has been the cramped issue. Annoying yes, end-of-the-world no.

 

I also happen to agree with Frankly Rich about the man in the first picture: No airline I've ever been on would allow that man to be situated like that. If there were not two seats together that he could have, he would be removed as a safety issue. Yes, embarrassing, maddening, and whatever you may want to call it, but a clear-cut safety issue, not only to him but to other passengers. There have been many cases of obese people being asked to leave the aircraft and if it's a safety matter, I agree. If it's just for someone else's comfort, NO!

 

That guy should have known better!

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Guess what? None of us are perfect.

 

Honestly! And showing a little compassion for the imperfections of others is one of the least expensive and most rewarding actions any of us can take. Why turn down a deal like that? Not only turn it down but, in the case of the letter-writer, crow about it. It's like he's proud of being a jerk.

 

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/Assets/jerk.jpg

Edited by Lookin

'If anyone objects to any statement I make, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever made it.' - Tom Lehrer

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What makes you think the alleged passenger has tried many diets?

 

I think the airline should provide a morbidly obese passenger 2 seats for a discounted price.

 

 

discount? just because they couldn't control their weight? bah

 

statistically only 3% of people are 'genetically fat.' the rest just eat it on or don't excercise. why should an airline shoulder that cost? if weight is the true issue with rising commercial air costs, then I say charge them for two seats, full fare

 

diets or not, they're inconveniencing others on airplanes. screw being politically correct. slim down, opt to drive or buy two seats.

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discount? just because they couldn't control their weight? bah

 

statistically only 3% of people are 'genetically fat.' the rest just eat it on or don't excercise. why should an airline shoulder that cost? if weight is the true issue with rising commercial air costs, then I say charge them for two seats, full fare

 

diets or not, they're inconveniencing others on airplanes. screw being politically correct. slim down, opt to drive or buy two seats.

 

 

 

Yes, about 3% (or even less) are "genetically fat." There are a huge number who have medical conditions or who take medications which make them fat and dieting will not address. Do you really think they haven't tried?

And what about the very poor - their diet contributes greatly to obesity because they cannot afford "healthy" food (nor do they have the education to tackle the issue or the access.) And yes, they do travel but not usually for pleasure.

 

Have a bit of tolerance - like maybe someone had for you once upon a time.

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Having been in a position like this I can understand the letter writer's position (although maybe not the way he expressed it). On a short flight from Phoenix to Salt Lake a VERY obese gentleman was seated in an emergency exit row in the middle seat. He was so big that his sides literally could not fit in the seat, so his body was also in part of my aisle seat and in that of the lady sitting in the window seat. Besides making for an extremely uncomfortable flight it would have been a disaster if there had been an emergency, this person would have blocked the row and kept others from being able to get out. By the way, airlines can and are supposed to require obese persons to purchase two seats. I'm sorry for this person's inability to control his weight but I paid for my seat, not for half of it. It's funny that many of the posters here talk about how disgusting cigarette smoke is and other traits that show a lack of control or addiction, but somehow have lots of compassion for the morbidly obese.

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I think people should be able to fit on the seat cushion without spilling over and their arms on their one half of the arm rest. Can't do that, buy a first class ticket or two coach/economy seats. Yes, U.S. airlines in general suck and not in a good way. They should post what size of people fit comfortably in each type of seat and maybe offer a discount if someone wants to buy two seats. I'm once again a "small guy" (after what seemed like a huge effort to lose weight) and I fly some routes that have planes so packed tight that "normal" size people sitting next to each other (two seats on either side of an aisle) isn't comfortable. I'm actually better able to handle this if its a woman (because I've found them more polite/sensitive as to whether their neighbor is ok). I usually get some beefy (yet not necessarily overweight) guy whose torso can't remotely fit in the boundaries of his seat area even if his ass can fit on the cushion. If that neighbor was hot, I could probably accept it. That never happens. Its always some ugly guy and I've go three hours trying to squeeze into the window opening. I now never fly on a flight that doesn't have first class for which I haven't checked the size of the plane and reserved an aisle seat - so at least I can lean that way. I'm one who thinks an airline should charge more and provide decent service, a comfortable cabin and reasonable sized seats including leg room. I'm way older than I used to be and I can't take my money (or my employers) with me so I'm ready to pay more to not feel like cattle being led to be slaughters - and yes - I've given up red meat.

 

Really....on balance, isn't most of the fault for a bad airline travel experience on the part of airlines? I think so.

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Some airlines do offer to have a morbidly obese person buy two seats, and a few will not board a person like that unless they are in two seats. The person who was upset should have talked to the flight attendant and complained to the Captain, and if no satisfactory solution found, it should have been reported to the FAA and to airline management. This is not just a courtesy issue, it is a safety issue. I am fortunate that I fly so much, I am almost always able to upgrade to first class or at least the "economy plus" seating on UA and I pay for the extra cost involved on other airlines. While I agree that the letter writer did not deal with the situation very well, the person that obese should have and could have handled it in another way. If there is a crash, who is going to be able to assist a person who is that large and obese? Certainly not a petite female flight attendant. I hope I never have to be confronted by a situation this gross, but I can tell you that I would speak to the flight attendant first, and then the Captain and asked to be seated somewhere else.

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discount? just because they couldn't control their weight? bah

 

statistically only 3% of people are 'genetically fat.' the rest just eat it on or don't excercise. why should an airline shoulder that cost? if weight is the true issue with rising commercial air costs, then I say charge them for two seats, full fare

 

diets or not, they're inconveniencing others on airplanes. screw being politically correct. slim down, opt to drive or buy two seats.

 

Think about your friends who may not be in peak form, then decide if this is really the message you really wanted to type.

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discount? just because they couldn't control their weight? bah

 

statistically only 3% of people are 'genetically fat.' the rest just eat it on or don't excercise. why should an airline shoulder that cost? if weight is the true issue with rising commercial air costs, then I say charge them for two seats, full fare

 

diets or not, they're inconveniencing others on airplanes. screw being politically correct. slim down, opt to drive or buy two seats.

 

I wouldn't get away with a comment like this but we all can't get enough of your style in this forum.

 

Thanks for posting, you have a point!

Liberal, born and raised in Maryland, proud member of pink pistols!

Ignore list: WilliamM

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On a recent flight, I was sitting in first class, and a couple arrived to sit across the aisle from me. They were too large for their first class seats. The woman sat in the window seat, and her husband/partner/bf had to wedge her in there. He had trouble sitting down in his aisle seat. Any movement and they hit the seats in front of them. They got up once to use the lavatory (somehow wedged in there too). I thought they were going to tear up the seats in front of them. I felt sorry for those passengers, who were gracious throughout the flight, perhaps more than I would be. They had trouble using the tray tables, and had to balance their snack plate against their bodies. Fortunately, it was a relatively short flight to Dallas.

 

I'm a very sympathetic person, but they were a danger to themselves and others on that flight. Do we really have the right to do everything we want? whenever we want? wherever we want? without any regard to those we impact?

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Think about your friends who may not be in peak form, then decide if this is really the message you really wanted to type.

 

hell, I'm not in peak form but I still wouldn't inconvenience other passengers if I didn't fit into one seat

 

I don't play the politically correct bullshit game. I wrote exactly what I felt

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On a recent flight, I was sitting in first class, and a couple arrived to sit across the aisle from me. They were too large for their first class seats. The woman sat in the window seat, and her husband/partner/bf had to wedge her in there. He had trouble sitting down in his aisle seat. Any movement and they hit the seats in front of them. They got up once to use the lavatory (somehow wedged in there too). I thought they were going to tear up the seats in front of them. I felt sorry for those passengers, who were gracious throughout the flight, perhaps more than I would be. They had trouble using the tray tables, and had to balance their snack plate against their bodies. Fortunately, it was a relatively short flight to Dallas.

 

I'm a very sympathetic person, but they were a danger to themselves and others on that flight. Do we really have the right to do everything we want? whenever we want? wherever we want? without any regard to those we impact?

 

In Canada obese people get 2 seats for the price of one.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1088230/Fat-people-seats-price-flights-Canada.html

 

Isn't that rewarding a bad habit/condition?

 

Imagine that couple having issues doing everything we normally do: walking, getting in and out of a car, having sex, breathing, etc. Someone needs to tell them they need to change their lifestyle.

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a9zhBDr56xQ/UoKmnVLciJI/AAAAAAAAPKU/mqrbHntkH_E/s1600/automatic-cat-feeder-cartoon.jpghttp://cyrilhuzeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/picture-of-the-week.jpghttp://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/5-funny-fat-dog-are-you-mocking-me.jpg

funny-liberty-statue-burguer-fat1.jpg

Liberal, born and raised in Maryland, proud member of pink pistols!

Ignore list: WilliamM

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What a blessing it must be to have not even a single quality that could ever cause distress to others, to fit perfectly into one's seat, to have consistently fresh breath, to always be impeccably dressed and appropriately scented, to show affection only in ways with universal social acceptance, and to be a shining example of thoughtful kindness to one and all!

 

Dunno if that happy day will ever arrive for me but, until it does, I guess I'll just have to give others a break and keep my judgements to myself. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

 

http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/blow_gasket_small.jpg

'If anyone objects to any statement I make, I am quite prepared not only to retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever made it.' - Tom Lehrer

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What a blessing it must be to have not even a single quality that could ever cause distress to others, to fit perfectly into one's seat, to have consistently fresh breath, to always be impeccably dressed and appropriately scented, to show affection only in ways with universal social acceptance, and to be a shining example of thoughtful kindness to one and all!

 

Dunno if that happy day will ever arrive for me but, until it does, I guess I'll just have to give others a break and keep my judgements to myself. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/wp-content/uploads/blow_gasket_small.jpg

 

To fit on a seat, have fresh breath, be dressed, not to smell and be polite ain't impossible, I think your sarcasm should aim higher

Liberal, born and raised in Maryland, proud member of pink pistols!

Ignore list: WilliamM

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When I sneeze, I cover my nose and mouth. When I go through a doorway if someone is coming out after me, I hold the door. When I am at the movies or the theater I do not sit on a pillow or wear a top hat. I do not walk down the street looking at a device rather than where I am going. I don't cross against a light if a car that has the right of way is approaching. In other words, I try to be polite (Polite - seemingly an archaic word that no longer has a meaning). If I could not fit in my airline seat without overlapping onto my neighbor I would take a second seat. The right to fly whether it infringes on others or not is not inalienable. Some one has the absolute right to complain and be unhappy if they are subjected to rudeness - political correctness or ignoring a situation does not trump bad behavior. I don't see why this is even a discussion. If you stink, take a bath. If you are too large to fit, make some other arrangement.

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When I sneeze, I cover my nose and mouth. When I go through a doorway if someone is coming out after me, I hold the door. When I am at the movies or the theater I do not sit on a pillow or wear a top hat. I do not walk down the street looking at a device rather than where I am going. I don't cross against a light if a car that has the right of way is approaching. In other words, I try to be polite (Polite - seemingly an archaic word that no longer has a meaning). If I could not fit in my airline seat without overlapping onto my neighbor I would take a second seat. The right to fly whether it infringes on others or not is not inalienable. Some one has the absolute right to complain and be unhappy if they are subjected to rudeness - political correctness or ignoring a situation does not trump bad behavior. I don't see why this is even a discussion. If you stink, take a bath. If you are too large to fit, make some other arrangement.

 

Yes.... Directly to the point.

the greatest beauty is

Organic wholeness, the wholeness of life and things,

the divine beauty of the universe.

Love that, not man apart from that,

or else you will share man’s pitiful confusions,

or drown in despair when his days darken."

 

- Robinson Jeffers

 

B e l i e v e

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When I sneeze, I cover my nose and mouth. When I go through a doorway if someone is coming out after me, I hold the door. When I am at the movies or the theater I do not sit on a pillow or wear a top hat. I do not walk down the street looking at a device rather than where I am going. I don't cross against a light if a car that has the right of way is approaching. In other words, I try to be polite (Polite - seemingly an archaic word that no longer has a meaning). If I could not fit in my airline seat without overlapping onto my neighbor I would take a second seat. The right to fly whether it infringes on others or not is not inalienable. Some one has the absolute right to complain and be unhappy if they are subjected to rudeness - political correctness or ignoring a situation does not trump bad behavior. I don't see why this is even a discussion. If you stink, take a bath. If you are too large to fit, make some other arrangement.

 

It all comes back to manners and the way in which you were raised...

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