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On Hoes, Hustling and Hassling... (Just a funny alliteration.)


Juan Vancouver
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Hi all.

 

I don't start threads often but this subject clearly has been in our minds lately and there is a side of it that has not yet been discussed. I would like to clarify that I have absolutely no intention of swaying anyone's opinion or judging something right and something else wrong (in spite of the incendiary title.) so I invite you all to read this with an open mind and comment to your heart's content. I am truly curious to hear all sides.

 

I sincerely respect everyone who has tried this, both clients and escorts. I just have to share why to me, personally this really doesn't work. I realize that different markets in different places will be very dissimile and I know very well that what feels right for me has nothing to do with what is right for everyone else. (Whoa, the disclaimer!) So here I go.

 

It has happened to all of us. Sometimes in one role, sometimes on the other. I have had the joy of experiencing both:

 

I am having a great night out with my partner, or my friends. I am having a riot. It's my personal time and I am enjoying myself. All of a sudden someone comes to me clearly making aggressive advances. When I politely decline and focus back on my friends I am again the focus of my suitor's attention, except this time he gets close to my ear and whispers that he is "generous". (And I am talking about men who have no way of knowing that I am an escort.)

 

Scenario number two:

 

I am having a riot with my friends, all of a sudden, out of the blue this guy comes and starts pursuing me aggressively. He is so aggressive that he kind of scares people around me. If I am a bit drunk and if he is hot enough I might even consider him for a moment. So after an hour of hassling I finally give in and reach to kiss him, just to have him recoil sharply whispering "Yeah but you have to make it worth my time".

 

These scenarios happen everywhere. A club, a restaurant, saunas, the street, Grinder, Manhunt, you name it! All venues that men use to have a really fun time and meet other men for fun. I am not talking about escort sites, bawdy houses, strip joints or hustler bars.

 

I for one always feel really bothered and annoyed by this. To me it feels wrong that someone is invading my personal space of recreation, making assumptions about me, being disrespectful toward my company or boyfriend, being aggressive and then pushing their own agenda into my every day life. To me it always feels wrong because it is entirely out of place and unsolicited; there are venues where this kind of interaction is expected and wanted, so I am often really pissed off by this kind of advances.

 

Reading some of the threads it seems to me as if this has become a commonly accepted practice at which nobody bats an eye. Comments like "So and So is so hot... does he escort?" make me cringe a little. It kind of reminds me of the old movies when the camera would pan and we would see a tiny old man hiding in the shadows of a bar with a wad of cash fanned in his hand, licking his lips.

 

And it's not only a thing about gay men. I also find it disrespectful when straight men think it is okay to financially proposition women who are not escorts and have not shown any interest.

 

In the past it was really hard to find escorts or clients so one had to go about it in indirect ways, but now we know where they are and where to find them. It's really easy to contact them. And It's not even a matter of being afraid of competition (there are incredibly cheap escorts everywhere), but it's more a matter of personally disliking being bothered in a public arena and also feeling a little sad that men and women that are not fit for this job or called by it are somehow pushed into it by the allure of "easy" cash.

 

I realize this is a personal issue and clearly -judging by how pervasive this is becoming- a lot of people find it perfectly acceptable. But I for one would be a much happier man if for the rest of my life nobody solicited me at an inappropriate venue.

 

What are your thoughts? Do you do this? (And why?) Has it happened to you? What was your reaction?

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

+1 778 319 0470

To e-mail me, click here

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Hey Corndog,

 

I am a big boy and quite used to having people pursue me aggressively. I am perfectly fine with it as long as it is not annoying; we all know the line. No means no.

 

In my post I am strictly talking about the assumption some people make that everyone is hireable or hiring at all times and in all venues. I am talking about when someone is trying to do business with me when I am having fun. For the record, it's the same annoyance I feel when I am being hustled on the beach to buy trinkets or sign up to a time share.

 

I am there to have fun not to conduct business.

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

+1 778 319 0470

To e-mail me, click here

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Well done, Juan... NO MEANS NO... it can happen in so many places, including a bath house where guys think that just because you are there, you are fair game for every Tom, Dick and Harry (with apologies to any posters with these names that are on here), but you get the picture.

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I am there to have fun not to conduct business.

 

I've had to deal with this a lot, having experience in the adult nightlife scene here in Toronto. Your last last line really says it all, for myself at least. Pushy people need to be politely put in their place. Whether it's in Mexico where timeshare employees practically slam your door down to get you to an "information session" to a nightlife setting with people either too aggressive or drunk to know better, you sometimes have to push back harder to get the point across (figuratively speaking, of course) and enjoy the night! :)

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and yet guys have posted very recently here on daddys that the new wave of hiring is happening at the strip bars and clubs. I believe it was of our most frequent posters who said he mostly hires from these type of places. It is not for me however. I occasionally have to accompany a client to a male strip bar with dancers. Some of my clients get off on the boys flirting with them and they throw some 20s at the boys and all is fun.....until the boys get aggressive with me. I ALWAYS tell my clients in these situations that if PUSHED i will decline the boys advances. Getting involved with drug addicted strippers is not my idea of fun. When they start hustling me for tips i just whisper in their ear that i am here accompanying a friend and that they are not my type. That usually ends it.

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It's been years (OK decades) since I had this happen to me. I was flattered when a guy bought me a drink while I was waiting for my friends to arrive - - and I was very clear that I was meeting friends to celebrate a birthday when he asked if he could join me. I thanked him again for the drink when my friends arrived and I moved to table with them. I politely declined his invitation to join him on the dance floor 30 minutes later. And I was grateful that one of my buddies was with me when he walked up to me at the urinal and asked if I would leave my friends and go back to his apartment with him. Before I could reply, my buddy stepped in and said, "Sam's too nice to say it so I will. Dude, it's not going to happen. Ever. Now go."

 

So I find the first approach flattering, but after that it is a turn off and any chance the guy had for another time is lost forever.

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No is No. Thanks for that!

 

I sort of have the opposite problem. I'm shy and afraid of rejection, and so even if I'm in a context where questions like the ones you describe might be expected -- I'm thinking of some wildly wallflower evenings at Rounds of old, and Adonis in NYC recently -- I have a hard time saying, even in the most tentative and polite way something like, "Gosh, you look terrific!" Let alone something like "Will you go home with me and I won't stop asking till you say yes."

 

So what's the happy middle?

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No is No. Thanks for that!

 

I sort of have the opposite problem. I'm shy and afraid of rejection, and so even if I'm in a context where questions like the ones you describe might be expected -- I'm thinking of some wildly wallflower evenings at Rounds of old, and Adonis in NYC recently -- I have a hard time saying, even in the most tentative and polite way something like, "Gosh, you look terrific!" Let alone something like "Will you go home with me and I won't stop asking till you say yes."

 

So what's the happy middle?

 

learn to flirt in a happy, almost comedic manner. It'll never get you anywhere, but it usually will save a punch in the nose.

Do not try to the patience of Dragons, for you are Crunchy and good with Ketchup.

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Damn! Clearly I did it to myself.

 

I really appreciate your responses but I have the feeling that since I wrote a looooong post nobody really read it and everyone is responding to the existing responses. I am guessing this because nobody really is talking about the issue that I was trying to bring up. Maybe it is too touchy an issue to discuss here?

 

Just to make clear, this post was not about pushy come ons, unsolicited flirting or people pursuing people for fun.

 

My original post is about the solicitation of prostitution (as a client or an escort) in venues where this is not the norm or expected. What I was talking about is people wanting to hire men who are not prostitutes, or prostitutes wanting to be hired by men who are not clients.

 

That's why I get for not having an editor... =)

 

Hugs to all!

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

+1 778 319 0470

To e-mail me, click here

Reviews - Rentmen

 

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learn to flirt in a happy, almost comedic manner. It'll never get you anywhere

 

My perspective is different. I always thought that happy, light hearted flirting is the most effective kind. It makes the guy appear popular, desirable and witty.

I've looked at life from both sides now
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all

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No is No. Thanks for that!

 

I sort of have the opposite problem. I'm shy and afraid of rejection, and so even if I'm in a context where questions like the ones you describe might be expected -- I'm thinking of some wildly wallflower evenings at Rounds of old, and Adonis in NYC recently -- I have a hard time saying, even in the most tentative and polite way something like, "Gosh, you look terrific!" Let alone something like "Will you go home with me and I won't stop asking till you say yes."

 

So what's the happy middle?

 

Any kind of non-verbal flirting shows interest without making the other person uncomfortable or leaving yourself open to rejection. Here's an example from my infamous flirting book which I really need to sit down and actually read someday. http://www.m4m-forum.org/images/smilies/rolleyes.png Sub in "hot Juan look alike" for "woman."http://s22.postimg.org/g190a1a0x/photo.png

I've looked at life from both sides now
From win and lose and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all

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Juan : it is happening everywhere and this is a response to your OP. This is why i posted my recent , "craigslist," thread. The hotties on CL and on all the i phone apps are being approached by generous men and generou men are approaching the hotties. Many of the hotties have a deep seated hatred for escorting and they resent being offered money as that is , "below," them. Other sgladly accept the money. As far as the , "client," types are concerned: some of them are thrilled to get to get a hot guy whatever the price and some get really pissed at even the suggestion that they , "have to or need to" pay. http://www.rentmen.com/mikeyusatop

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My original post is about the solicitation of prostitution (as a client or an escort) in venues where this is not the norm or expected.

 

What I was talking about is people wanting to hire men who are not prostitutes, or prostitutes wanting to be hired by men who are not clients.

 

For some of us even the term "prostitute" has a lot of emotional baggage and shame. (And living in the uber-politically-correct bay area I prefer the term "sex-woker")

 

If wishes were horses ... I would live in a world where not only would it be legal to exchange money for sex but that there would

be no shame for doing so. That being said:

 

A lot of people do take strong offense at being asked, even discreetly, and my mind boggles that a doofus would accost somebody

in ear-shot of his friends in a public place.

 

Being relatively plain looking, I've never ever been the target of such an offer, and since I don't go out much, haven't ever witnessed it, but have seen the other kinds of pushiness mentioned here.

 

I'm wondering what Juan's reaction would be if instead of somebody loudly and publically and obnoxiously demanding or accosting

somebody had managed to quietly ask only so that he could hear "Are you amenable to bribes? :) " even if it had been in a public *place*, but making it a relatively private interaction . . .

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I'm wondering what Juan's reaction would be if instead of somebody loudly and publically and obnoxiously demanding or accosting

somebody had managed to quietly ask only so that he could hear "Are you amenable to bribes? :) " even if it had been in a public *place*, but making it a relatively private interaction . . .

 

My response would be the same: "No thank you." I don't need a bribe, I don't need people's generosity, I don't need donations. I am a professional companion and I have specific rates set for my work. When people are looking for professional companionship they will look for it at places where this companionship can be found. That's why I decline offers at bars, at the gym, on Grinder, etc.

 

A couple times out of boredom I have said "Sure, you can see me naked for 500" every time people recoiled with horror and responded something like "For that amount I might as well hire a professional". To which I gladly reply: "Great. Then do. I'll go back to enjoying myself. Have a great night."

 

It turns out that "generous" offers are rarely ever generous.

Always hard and warm,

 

Juan

 

+1 778 319 0470

To e-mail me, click here

Reviews - Rentmen

 

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