HIV+ Escorts

[Guest Starbuck]

A QUESTION FOR ESCORTS ONLY:

 

Some of you strongly emphasize that you only play safe. Some of you advertise your HIV- status. Some of you have complained about a growing demand for bareback sex. I wonder if any of you--particularly those who have spoken up about the importance of protecting your own health and that of your clients--would say here and now that any man who knows he is HIV+ should not be escorting.

[SteveEscort]

I think that's silly, it's like saying any HIV+ man who goes out to a bar for a pick up should just stay home with a cocoa and watch the tv at night because he's a menace to society.

 

I am sure I've been with many HIV positive men in the past, it's never resulted in me becoming HIV positive. Maybe HIV positive clients should stay away too.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Me too.

 

And let's not forget there are other bugs out there from syphilis and genital herpes. At least you can wear a condom to protect against HIV. That doesn't really work against the flu.

[Juan Vancouver]

A QUESTION FOR ESCORTS ONLY:--would say here and now that any man who knows he is HIV+ should not be escorting.

 

I am far from believing that I can say what other men -escorts or laymen alike- can or should do. I believe, as a personal rule that being honest and communicate openly works best for me. The second thing important for me is to make sure that I take every necessary precaution -every single time- whenever I am having sexual contact with others to make sure that I am taking my own health in my own hands.

 

Lastly, the other thing that works great for me is inform myself thoroughly, not only by what other men think, but what the professionals researching sexually transmitted infections say about this specific subject. Sadly, it is quite often that I read in this very forum that men will avoid HIV positive men (or HIV positive looking men, whatever that might mean) for fear of infection and instead will stick to men who say are negative or look "healthy". If you read enough of the literature about the subject you will very soon realize that this is a big mistake. Most researchers believe that a person who has been positive for longer than a year, has been in treatment and has had an undetectable viral load for more than six months will be very unlikely (some researchers say impossible) to infect a negative person.

 

Most new HIV infections occur from men who were "negative" (lying), didn't know their status or had just recently seroconverted. When one just seroconverted, one shows absolutely no sign of HIV or HIV medication side effect signs and one would present as negative, while having a huge concentration of the virus in one's fluids, making them highly contagious.

 

If an escort is positive, is being treated, is honest about his status and makes informed choices allowing his clients to make informed choices, then I think having HIV positive escorts is not only "ok" but actually really good. I know of many HIV positive clients who are very scared of meeting with HIV negative escorts for fear of transmission and I know they would feel so much more comfortable meeting an HIV positive escort, even if they engaged in safe sex. I am going to go further and say that the market has a need for HIV positive escorts.

 

I am an HIV negative escort who plays safe with others. I assume that everyone I play with is potentially infected with something and I take every possible precaution to make sure that I minimize the risk. I am a sexually active man who has sex with many men and I know there is a risk involved in my behaviour, even if I am careful. I accept this risk, I inform myself and I take responsibility for my own actions and health. I believe this is the only adult thing to do...

 

Other people can do whatever they want. I am at peace with that.

 

Now... let's have some fun!

[Amoco]

I realize this was posted just for escorts, but I simply can't resist responding from the perspective of a client.

 

First, in regard to SteveEscort's comments, it's almost impossible to take this seriously. The idea that a professional sex worker would suggest that because he has never contracted HIV that it's no big deal to have sex with HIV + guys is simply ridiculous and not worthy of much more of a response. Further, nobody ever suggested that all poz guys should stay home and watch TV.

 

In regard to Chris Eisenhower's comments, I'm not sure if he's being funny when he makes his points about other STDs and the Flu, but again, is there anybody out there who disagrees with the concept of both escort and client taking responsibility for knowing their status with any infectious process and simply being honest about it, is the only ethical thing to do?

 

Once again, Juan is the voice of reason, and though I think encouraging HIV + escorts is a bit of a stretch, his points about always playing safe, being open and honest, and understanding that the way someone looks does not necessarily guarantee underlying health, are all important to embrace. One point that Juan ignores is the fact that a significant number of poz men don't even know it, so not only are they often in the early phases when their viral titres are high, they still look good and act like nothing is wrong.

 

Interestingly, one of the long standing gripes on the Boards is that prostitution shouldn't be illegal and that it's unfairly vilified when it's a victimless "crime". Well, again, does anybody think that legalisation would ever come without required testing? More importantly, should it?

 

I raised an associated issue with Daddy fairly recently when I noted in a published interview that when one of the guys was asked a direct question pertaining to their status that they answered it in a very suspicious way that suggested that they felt "great", but never really answered the question. I believe that risk to innocent bystanders (whether client or escort) trumps the privacy issue that Daddy sited. As he pointed out, the Federal Government would disagree with me and is invested in everyone's medical privacy. And though I can certainly appreciate that, in my mind it all goes out the window when people choose to involve others. Should a surgeon be permitted to operate if he has Parkinsons? Should lunatics have guns? And let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that all poz guys close up shop - just that they tell the truth.

 

In a year of hiring, I can't tell you the number of mature seasoned escorts that pushed barebacking with me - I mean, pushed and justified it with a bunch of convoluted info twisted into some ridiculous rationale. We can all agree that it feels a whole lot better unprotected, and we might even agree that there are varying levels of risk depending on the activity. But is there anybody out there who doesn't believe that each partner has the absolute right to know the status of their partner, one way or another?

 

After that, everyone has the same right to proceed and accept the risk or to walk.

 

P.s...everyone should read some of Steven Draker's extensive posts on HIV. They're smart, thorough and very helpful.

[leigh.bess.toad]

If an escort is positive, is being treated, is honest about his status and makes informed choices allowing his clients to make informed choices, then I think having HIV positive escorts is not only "ok" but actually really good. I know of many HIV positive clients who are very scared of meeting with HIV negative escorts for fear of transmission and I know they would feel so much more comfortable meeting an HIV positive escort, even if they engaged in safe sex. I am going to go further and say that the market has a need for HIV positive escorts.

 

Well said Juan. And yet I remember here on the forum not too long ago a discussion about such an escort (I can't remember his name). A man who openly disclosed his HIV+ status. And there were guys here who totally vilified him for working as an escort since he was poz. Like you, I believe there is a place for a poz escort who admits his status. And yes, there were basically people who acted like poz individuals should go home and never have sex ever again. With anyone.

 

I think Steve's point is well made. I think for any professional male escort to assume that he has never had sex with a positive client would be ludicrous. That is the point he was making. He (and every other escort) has been with poz clients and he is still negative.

[irishjock]

I have to admit this whole thread freaked me out. :/

[leigh.bess.toad]

I have to admit this whole thread freaked me out. :/

 

It shouldn't. If someone is positive and discloses it and that is what freaks you out, you know to stay away from him. Not wanting to be with people who are positive is certainly an understandable position, especially for someone new to the scene, such as yourself. Don't be afraid to admit that. That is totally understandable.

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Amoco,

 

Thanks for your kind words, my man. I would just like to expound on a couple things:

 

One point that Juan ignores is the fact that a significant number of poz men don't even know it, so not only are they often in the early phases when their viral titres are high, they still look good and act like nothing is wrong.

 

You might have missed it but I actually wrote a whole paragraph about it. Here's the copy of it.

 

Most new HIV infections occur from men who were "negative" (lying), didn't know their status or had just recently seroconverted. When one just seroconverted, one shows absolutely no sign of HIV or HIV medication side effect signs(SIC) and one would present as negative, while having a huge concentration of the virus in one's fluids, making them highly contagious.

 

Re-reading this paragraph I see now how the poor grammar might have made it difficult to understand.

 

I raised an associated issue with Daddy fairly recently when I noted in a published interview that when one of the guys was asked a direct question pertaining to their status that they answered it in a very suspicious way that suggested that they felt "great", but never really answered the question. I believe that risk to innocent bystanders (whether client or escort) trumps the privacy issue that Daddy sited. As he pointed out, the Federal Government would disagree with me and is invested in everyone's medical privacy.

 

As a matter of fact most governments are more on your side. Medical privacy is a right as long as it is not incumbent upon other people's health. In many jurisdictions if you are going to engage in risky behaviour with someone else and you are positive you are legally bound to disclose your status. If you fail to disclose your positive status and engage in risky behaviour you might get in big legal trouble.

 

 

As for celebrating the presence of HIV positive escorts in the market this is my reason: One of the medically accepted suggestions is a practice known as serosorting. Negative people having sex with negative people, positive people having sex with positive people. Of course this would demand that everyone is honest and knows their status but it's a general suggestion. I think we forget sometimes that there are many clients who are HIV positive who would feel more comfortable having sex with HIV positive men. Here is where HIV positive escorts are invaluable. Lets not forget also, that there are many negative men out there who are very well informed, are religious on their safety practices and have absolutely no problem having sex with a positive escort.

 

I hope this clarifies a bit my original post.

[doitb4ugo]

Clearly, the best way to manage risk is by education and understanding the various facts surrounding many of the medical consequences of sex between men (or maybe human beings). Knowledge is always the best weapon. Know your staus and get tested regularly. If POZ, disclose it and be honest with guys you are going to have sex with...allow for the possibility that others may not do so and play safe.

 

P. S. Thanks to Juan. As a poz guy I much prefer to have sex with other poz guys...and there are hookups and escorts who meet my needs.

[Amoco]

Sorry, Juan...I did miss it and certainly share the sentiment.

[Tighty]

I realize this was posted just for escorts, but I simply can't resist responding from the perspective of a client.

 

First, in regard to SteveEscort's comments, it's almost impossible to take this seriously. The idea that a professional sex worker would suggest that because he has never contracted HIV that it's no big deal to have sex with HIV + guys is simply ridiculous and not worthy of much more of a response. Further, nobody ever suggested that all poz guys should stay home and watch TV.

 

In regard to Chris Eisenhower's comments, I'm not sure if he's being funny when he makes his points about other STDs and the Flu, but again, is there anybody out there who disagrees with the concept of both escort and client taking responsibility for knowing their status with any infectious process and simply being honest about it, is the only ethical thing to do?

 

Once again, Juan is the voice of reason, and though I think encouraging HIV + escorts is a bit of a stretch, his points about always playing safe, being open and honest, and understanding that the way someone looks does not necessarily guarantee underlying health, are all important to embrace. One point that Juan ignores is the fact that a significant number of poz men don't even know it, so not only are they often in the early phases when their viral titres are high, they still look good and act like nothing is wrong.

 

Interestingly, one of the long standing gripes on the Boards is that prostitution shouldn't be illegal and that it's unfairly vilified when it's a victimless "crime". Well, again, does anybody think that legalisation would ever come without required testing? More importantly, should it?

 

I raised an associated issue with Daddy fairly recently when I noted in a published interview that when one of the guys was asked a direct question pertaining to their status that they answered it in a very suspicious way that suggested that they felt "great", but never really answered the question. I believe that risk to innocent bystanders (whether client or escort) trumps the privacy issue that Daddy sited. As he pointed out, the Federal Government would disagree with me and is invested in everyone's medical privacy. And though I can certainly appreciate that, in my mind it all goes out the window when people choose to involve others. Should a surgeon be permitted to operate if he has Parkinsons? Should lunatics have guns? And let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that all poz guys close up shop - just that they tell the truth.

 

In a year of hiring, I can't tell you the number of mature seasoned escorts that pushed barebacking with me - I mean, pushed and justified it with a bunch of convoluted info twisted into some ridiculous rationale. We can all agree that it feels a whole lot better unprotected, and we might even agree that there are varying levels of risk depending on the activity. But is there anybody out there who doesn't believe that each partner has the absolute right to know the status of their partner, one way or another?

 

After that, everyone has the same right to proceed and accept the risk or to walk.

 

P.s...everyone should read some of Steven Draker's extensive posts on HIV. They're smart, thorough and very helpful.

 

Tell us all the reasons these escorts gave you.

[Amoco]

Tighty...Glad you asked this because I've written several reviews and want to be clear that none of the escorts reviewed by me were pushing anything unsafe - I regret that I neglected to consider that and should have made that clear when I mentioned my experience...and in regard to what the justifications were, it's really irrelevant because there are no legitimate reasons to not be safe...again, the guys I've reviewed are each extraordinary men and decent human beings.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

In regard to Chris Eisenhower's comments, I'm not sure if he's being funny when he makes his points about other STDs and the Flu, but again, is there anybody out there who disagrees with the concept of both escort and client taking responsibility for knowing their status with any infectious process and simply being honest about it, is the only ethical thing to do?

 

Nope, not trying to be funny. I take my health very seriously. I get tested every three months and practice safe sex both privately and escortly. But my main priority is trying not to catch any of the other nasty shit that's out there. Over the years I've lost thousands of dollars in appointments due to the flu, a stomach bug or cold sores. There are forum members who can tell you I've canceled on them for those very reasons, the logic being that I'm trying to protect them.

 

I've dated guys with HIV. I've had clients with HIV. And yes, it was scary at first and I was paranoid. HIV isn't easy to catch and I'm not likely to get it via the sex I'm having. One of these days a strain of flu is going to come along that's going to be virulent and deadly and it's going to kill some people who are escorts or clients. We already have warnings about superbug strains of gonorrhea and the other common STDs are moving in that direction of antibiotic resistance. I'm not trying to candy-coat the danger of getting HIV or the damage it can do to your life and body, but it's more likely that I'd be involved in a syphilis outbreak (since DC and the East Coast is apparently having a resurgence of it) rather than HIV.

[Diverdan]

Well said, Chris...

[whipped guy]

HIV isn't easy to catch and I'm not likely to get it via the sex I'm having. One of these days a strain of flu is going to come along that's going to be virulent and deadly and it's going to kill some people who are escorts or clients. We already have warnings about superbug strains of gonorrhea and the other common STDs are moving in that direction of antibiotic resistance. I'm not trying to candy-coat the danger of getting HIV or the damage it can do to your life and body, but it's more likely that I'd be involved in a syphilis outbreak (since DC and the East Coast is apparently having a resurgence of it) rather than HIV.

 

 

Yes HIV is not an easy one to catch... and I now that Chris is sincere in what he his trying to say. However, I hate when the fact that "it is not easy to catch" is "touted" or " advertised" as such. That does a disservice. Plus, many escorts (not to mention clients) are not skilled in the use of the standard precautions that those in the medical community observe. I have seen not so safe practices even when condoms were used. To make an analogy, if a medical professional does not properly don his gloves or properly remove his gloves or removes them too soon it potentially can lead not only to the medical professional getting infected, but also the potential infection of others. The average person is not skilled in the use of the standard precautions that medical professionals practice... and I have personally observed medical professionals who are lax when it comes to strictly observing those standards. So yes, when those who are specifically trained in such practices often lower their guard, what chance does the average well intentioned individual have in dealing with such situations? Something to consider. One not need turn the bedroom into the sterile environment of an operating room... but one needs to be cautious, vigilant, attentive, and act with diligence... and even though one is often distracted by the heat of the moment.

 

One further note concerns the fact that current standard precautions go above the traditional universal precautions regarding only blood and body fluids. Of course there are other types of infections including viral issues... not to mention bacterial based infections, etc. One additional concern is indeed the creation of those "super-bugs" due to the overprescribing of antibiotics. The overuse of prophylactic antibiotics, not to mention the prescribing of antibiotics for viral based infections is one of my main peeves. So another reason to be extra cautious.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Yes HIV is not an easy one to catch... and I now that Chris is sincere in what he his trying to say. However, I hate when the fact that "it is not easy to catch" is "touted" or " advertised" as such. That does a disservice. Plus, many escorts (not to mention clients) are not skilled in the use of the standard precautions that those in the medical community observe. I have seen not so safe practices even when condoms were used. To make an analogy, if a medical professional does not properly don his gloves or properly remove his gloves or removes them too soon it potentially can lead not only to the medical professional getting infected, but also the potential infection of others. The average person is not skilled in the use of the standard precautions that medical professionals practice... and I have personally observed medical professionals who are lax when it comes to strictly observing those standards. So yes, when those who are specifically trained in such practices often lower their guard, what chance does the average well intentioned individual have in dealing with such situations? Something to consider. One not need turn the bedroom into the sterile environment of an operating room... but one needs to be cautious, vigilant, attentive, and act with diligence... and even though one is often distracted by the heat of the moment.

 

One further note concerns the fact that current standard precautions go above the traditional universal precautions regarding only blood and body fluids. Of course there are other types of infections including viral issues... not to mention bacterial based infections, etc. One additional concern is indeed the creation of those "super-bugs" due to the overprescribing of antibiotics. The overuse of prophylactic antibiotics, not to mention the prescribing of antibiotics for viral based infections is one of my main peeves. So another reason to be extra cautious.

 

I went through a lot of counseling with a partner to ease my own mind, and to make sure that taking things to the next level wasn't going to endanger me. HIV isn't easy to catch under normal circumstances. However, when you get into PnP and other inherently unsafe practices, it becomes much, much easier to contract.

[whipped guy]

I went through a lot of counseling with a partner to ease my own mind, and to make sure that taking things to the next level wasn't going to endanger me. HIV isn't easy to catch under normal circumstances. However, when you get into PnP and other inherently unsafe practices, it becomes much, much easier to contract.

Chris... I think that we are basically on the same wavelength. Unfortunately having a sexual experience in the 21st Century involves more than a bit of preparation, foresight, and I dare say even some advance training in safety measures. However, not everyone is as conscientious as you seem to be. Unfortunately, what you consider to be "normal circumstances" is probably not the norm for many others... and that includes escorts. Sloppy precautions unfortunately abound.

 

While I don't expect escorts to get a medical degree, a certain amount of knowledge can go a long way. One would not expect to be at the mercy of a dentist, surgeon, or even an airline pilot who had just come from having a date with tina. Likewise, one should expect "sexual professionals" to act responsibly as well... and possibly even educate clients who are not well versed in what really constitutes save sex.

[leigh.bess.toad]

One would not expect to be at the mercy of a dentist,

 

One would never want to be at the mercy of a dentist for any reason. Ever.

 

Especially if they have a whip, paddle or flogger. And your strapped into a St. Andrew's Cross.

 

[whipped guy]

One would never want to be at the mercy of a dentist for any reason. Ever.

 

Especially if they have a whip, paddle or flogger. And your strapped into a St. Andrew's Cross.

 

Well Lee... I guess you have never been to my dentist... and incidentally he does not offer local anesthetic or gas as part of his services... but smile on my face... and is that not the ultimate goal of the profession?

 

(Apologies to the OP for the detour as this is indeed a serious subject...)

[jimboivyo]

if you went to a supermarket and saw a spoiled head of lettuce, would you pick it up and buy it?

 

if that head of lettuce was capable of hiding the bruising to look more like his healthy fellow heads of lettuce, would that make any difference?

 

No and no. It's still damaged produce and no amount of cover is going to fix the underlying situation.

 

sex workers who work while HIV+ and aren't open about it are cheating themselves and potentially hurting others. find other work

[leigh.bess.toad]

if you went to a supermarket and saw a spoiled head of lettuce, would you pick it up and buy it?

 

if that head of lettuce was capable of hiding the bruising to look more like his healthy fellow heads of lettuce, would that make any difference?

 

No and no. It's still damaged produce and no amount of cover is going to fix the underlying situation.

 

sex workers who work while HIV+ and aren't open about it are cheating themselves and potentially hurting others. find other work

 

But if they are open about it, I agree with Juan that there is a place for them. But they are not damaged goods and to imply that is rather backwards. Any more than anyone else who is HIV+ is damaged goods. And if that is what you think, you really need to get some education. Unless you think someone with hypertension is damaged goods. Or diabetes. If an escort knows they are poz, hides it and works, and ends up exposing clients they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But there is a place for HIV+ escorts.

[Bosguy]

But if they are open about it, I agree with Juan that there is a place for them. But they are not damaged goods and to imply that is rather backwards. Any more than anyone else who is HIV+ is damaged goods. And if that is what you think, you really need to get some education. Unless you think someone with hypertension is damaged goods. Or diabetes. If an escort knows they are poz, hides it and works, and ends up exposing clients they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But there is a place for HIV+ escorts.

 

I am completely SHOCKED that the term "DAMAGED" would ever be used about any being. I believe you are implying that HIV+ escorts deliberately hide their status. Maybe I look at the world in a positive manner, but being completely negative about this issue is not the answer. HIV+ is not restricted to escorts--unfortunately, it has no boundaries. The only real solution is total abstinence from sex.

 

Boston Bill

[leigh.bess.toad]

I am completely SHOCKED that the term "DAMAGED" would ever be used about any being. I believe you are implying that HIV+ escorts deliberately hide their status. Maybe I look at the world in a positive manner, but being completely negative about this issue is not the answer. HIV+ is not restricted to escorts--unfortunately, it has no boundaries. The only real solution is total abstinence from sex.

 

Boston Bill

 

If your comments are directed at me, they are certainly misdirected. I most certainly don't believe people who are HIV+ are damaged, but that was the analogy jimboivyo was making with the lettuce comparison. And he was the one who talked about escorts who are positive hiding their status and working. I believe there is a place for HIV+ escorts. They don't need to abstain from sex. Anymore than anyone else who is poz needs to abstain from sex. They just need to disclose their status. But there is a market and a need for poz escorts. As the post from doitb4ugo showed.

[+ Funguy]

There has been a lot of good information here in this thread…99% on point. That is one of the things that make this forum so important - not just for fun (Whipped Guy, I'm still waiting for your "pose" from a ways back) and rants, and "woofs".

 

There are + escorts out there and they need to be honest about their status;

There are + clients out there and they need to be honest about their status.

 

One thing not mentioned is that there are a number of different sero-types of HIV and just because both participants are positive doesn't mean they have the same bug. They should still be careful; if relationship material, counseling, too.

 

Chris has alluded to other STD's….syphillis, gonorrhea, HPV, Herpes….they ARE on the rise and we should all be careful about them and be checked - escort AND client. Just because an escort "gets checked" every month or 3 months doesn't let the client off the hook. Many clients are reluctant because this is a hidden life-style are they are afraid to go to their regular doctor. They should go anonymously to a gay-oriented health clinic or MD and get thoroughly checked on a schedule depending on their hiring practices.

 

And Whipped - I am a dentalphobe but I force myself…it's much worse than getting a little blood drawn!