Vancouver = WTF?

[irishjock]

Is this a universal problem or is it yet another sign of the flakiness I can't stand in this city?

 

Contacting a guy: 1. lucky to get a reply. 2. if I get a reply and I reply with a question or clarification, the email thread dies. 3. Texting the numbers listed on a rentboy ad is like sending a message to a black hole.

 

I'm not emailing anything weird or crazy: just simple stuff: what are your rates? do you [blah blah blah]?

 

So are the locals jerks, extremely disorganised, or so busy they dont need new clientele* ??

 

*I'd never treat prospective clients like this and I work in a 'legal' freelance business.

[MichiganMan]

Nothing new...I've been hiring for over ten years and have witnessed the steady decline in the "quality" of escorts..even with something as simple as a proper, first contact!!

[+ azdr0710]

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't....in this age of texting, I think (some) younger people today never learned how to be aware of courteous communication.....or they may be busy or don't want to hook up just now or what-have-you.....certainly frustrating when you do all you can to be nice and friendly

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey my man,

 

Sadly we Vancouver escorts have a reputation for being on the flakey side. It's the pothead west coast approach, I think.

 

The only other possibility is that your emails or texts might be sending red flags causing escorts to stop communicating. This is especially possible if you are experiencing the same from many different escorts.

 

Why don't you give us an example of the exchange so that we can suggest how to communicate in a way that won't freak escorts out... Or we could just agree with you that you are doing fine and the escorts have been flakes.

 

On behalf of Vancouver escorts I do apologize.

 

I truly hope that you will soon find the chance to experience the Bro-mance you are looking for. =)

[Bosguy]

I believe it is an ever=increasing communication issue on the part both of the escort and the client. What's the answer? That's a million dollar question and I doubt there is a universal answer.

 

One point I disagree with you on is to state that this is part of the "flakiness" of Vancouver. Two of the most respected escorts in North America reside in Vancouver and are certainly not flaky. I believe you mean SOME of the escorts in this beautiful city are and of that SOME, the ONES you have had problems with.

 

Boston has periodically had similar generalizations aimed at it. Generalizations can be very harmful to the guys who do not fit in that general mode.

 

Just my opinion

 

Boston Bill

[Juan Vancouver]

One point I disagree with you on is to state that this is part of the "flakiness" of Vancouver. Two of the most respected escorts in North America reside in Vancouver and are certainly not flaky. I believe you mean SOME of the escorts in this beautiful city are and of that SOME, the ONES you have had problems with.

 

Boston has periodically had similar generalizations aimed at it. Generalizations can be very harmful to the guys who do not fit in that general mode.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that generalizations can be harmful and imprecise. There is great and not so great in every city and reviews will help us spot which is which.

 

Being a Vancouver escort myself and dealing with Vancouver people and Vancouver clients it is really hard not to notice a very different communication (and commitment) style when you compare it to different cities.

 

Often more assertive east coast types will get impatient with the more laid back west coast approach, while the west coasters will sometimes think east coasters are pushy and curt. Communication styles are often determined by the culture one lives in and there's no denying it.

 

Irishjock, do not despair. You will definitely find good people here.

[Mark Gordon]

*I'd never treat prospective clients like this and I work in a 'legal' freelance business.

 

So do the guys you're contacting. Just one of the many benefits of living in Canada. I do think there's a distinct possibility that there's something in the style and tone of your communication which is not working for you here..

[+ Gar1eth]

One point I disagree with you on is to state that this is part of the "flakiness" of Vancouver. Two of the most respected escorts in North America reside in Vancouver and are certainly not flaky.

Boston Bill

 

May I ask why you didn't name these two escorts?( I'm assuming one of them is Juan Bruno.)

 

Gman

[irishjock]

Hey my man,

 

The only other possibility is that your emails or texts might be sending red flags causing escorts to stop communicating. This is especially possible if you are experiencing the same from many different escorts.

 

Why don't you give us an example of the exchange so that we can suggest how to communicate in a way that won't freak escorts out...

 

I truly hope that you will soon find the chance to experience the Bro-mance you are looking for. =)

 

You're a good man, Juan, and it isn't a reflection on you at all, I must say... here is a cut and paste from my outbox:

 

First Time Client

Tuesday, December 03, 2013 9:41 PM

irishjock

 

Name: irishjock

Sent to Listing: 387371

I am very interested in meeting; can we set something up? Cheers, mate.

 

This is what happens:

 

1. nothing; or

2. email reply 3 days later to which I reply with dates then nothing.

 

The only exception is some completely new kid on backpage who has handled my questions + concerns really really well.

 

I mean, I shouldn't have to keep asking someone can I be their client. That's ludicrous.

[irishjock]

So do the guys you're contacting. Just one of the many benefits of living in Canada. I do think there's a distinct possibility that there's something in the style and tone of your communication which is not working for you here..

 

If I only worked with clients who sent impeccably written emails and text messages, I'd be broke.

[irishjock]

May I ask why you didn't name these two escorts?( I'm assuming one of them is Juan Bruno.)

 

Gman

 

I never contacted Juan and I can see he has been quite responsive to everyone on the board. Is it kosher of me to complain and name a guy for dropping the ball on the Client Intake process?

[irishjock]

Being a Vancouver escort myself and dealing with Vancouver people and Vancouver clients it is really hard not to notice a very different communication (and commitment) style when you compare it to different cities..

 

***RANT ALERT***

I referred to the "general" flakiness of Vancouver as a possible cause so I have no idea why anyone could imply that I was saying Juan is flaky. However, I stand by my negative opinion of Vancouver. I have lived (work or school) in Dublin, Edinburgh, London, Playa del Carmen, San Diego, Houston, Oklahoma City, Toronto and now Vancouver... these arent cities I have visited as a tourist, these are cities I have lived in either as a uni student or worked (first as a wage slave and then as self-employed).

 

And there is something odd or off about a lot of the people in Van; interpersonal skills/eye contact is poor here, drivers are bizarrely competitive, and people flake (in personal lives and work) more than I have experienced even in California.

 

I make no apologies for not singing It's A Small World After All... as I am even more critical of my own home town so why would I give Van a pass? "Best Place on Earth", my arse!

***RANT OVER***

[irishjock]

Often more assertive east coast types will get impatient with the more laid back west coast approach, while the west coasters will sometimes think east coasters are pushy and curt. Communication styles are often determined by the culture one lives in and there's no denying it.

 

Irishjock, do not despair. You will definitely find good people here.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head: I presume East Coast types are probably more like their cousins across the Atlantic in Dublin & London where business moves on European speed. This is probably a culture shock for me.

 

You're definitely the exception to my very limited foray. Thanks for not taking offence at my impertinence!

[irishjock]

So do the guys you're contacting. Just one of the many benefits of living in Canada...

 

I am no expert on the Criminal Code of Canada but my reading is that Section 212 prohibits procuring while 213 prohibits public communication.

 

Sec 213 creates a ludicrous situation: if an escort and a client discuss sexual services for a fee in a public place, an offence has been committed. If the discussion is in a private residence, no offence has been committed.

 

Does that make any sense?

[+ azdr0710]

I never contacted Juan and I can see he has been quite responsive to everyone on the board. Is it kosher of me to complain and name a guy for dropping the ball on the Client Intake process?

 

 

upthread, I think Gman was asking Bosguy (not you, Irish) who the "two good" escorts are in Vancouver....no, you don't have to name the flaky ones.....

[Juan Vancouver]

Don't worry, my man. I don't think anyone assumed you were talking about me. At least I didn't. No offence taken at all. (I did check my junk mail folder in a paranoid way, though. ) =)

 

And yes, it is a very different culture with very specific advantages and disadvantages. People communicate in different styles, no doubt.

 

Sec 213 creates a ludicrous situation: if an escort and a client discuss sexual services for a fee in a public place, an offence has been committed. If the discussion is in a private residence, no offence has been committed.

 

Does that make any sense?

 

This laws have been created mainly to discourage street walking and hustling in order to keep neighbourhoods family friendly and safe. It is believed that street walkers have a greater tendency to be minors, to have less focus on safety with higher rates of drug use. Also, thanks to these laws nobody can approach you offering sexual services out of the blue. If you actually pursue sex workers' ads and make the initial contact then it is perfectly fine to talk and discuss anything.

 

The other thing is that sex for money is not legal in Canada. Time for money is legal, whatever happens between two consenting adults that are spending time together is up to them to negotiate consensually but sexual acts and bodily fluids cannot be contracted or sold. This is to ensure that sex workers won't be abused. When you take consent away you create room for rape. "I paid for her pussy... don't care if she said stop, she had been paid already." kind of thing.

 

Now, speaking about your email I can suggest a couple things that might bring better results. Don't expect your escort to interrogate you in order to get all the information he needs. Give as much information as possible in the first email being concise. This will give him the chance to respond in a concise way.

 

If you ask if you can set something up, the only answer is "Yes, we can."

 

If you write something like:

 

"Hey, I saw your ad and liked what I saw. I am not very experienced with men and am thinking of having a session of approximately ____ hrs together at your place. I am curious about trying things such as ____________. My ideal time for meeting would be ________ days around ________ time. Are you available for that time and do you think we are a good match? What would be the rate for that kind of session? You can email me back, text me to the number I include or call me between ____ and ____. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you."

 

Nothing makes me happier than getting an email like this. It shows that the prospective client is serious, sees this as a engaging with a professional service provider and gives me all the information that I need to give him a clear, concise answer.

 

Examples of emails or texts that you should never write:

 

"Hi."

 

"How are you doing?"

 

"You look hot."

 

"Want to meet you."

 

"How much to fuck you?"

 

"Contact me."

 

95 percent of prospective clients starting communication this way will keep you on the phone for days on end and will never book. Most escorts ignore these messages.

 

I hope this is helpful and I hope you will find a good match soon. There are a few good escorts here and there is always a big influx of new ones. You might have to book with an unreviewed one and write his first review.

[+ Funguy]

Irishjock - are we all overlooking the obvious? Go ahead and contact Juan!!! Although I have not had the pleasure, he is on my bucket list if he ever gets to LA.

 

His posts here in re: your problems, issues, desires are right on the money!

[Bosguy]

upthread, I think Gman was asking Bosguy (not you, Irish) who the "two good" escorts are in Vancouver....no, you don't have to name the flaky ones.....

 

You are correct, it was me, not you, who referred to "two of the most RESPECTED (didn't state GOOD) escorts in Vancouver" I didn't name them, but I, of course, was speaking about Juan and his buddy, Thor". It is only through the Forum, Daddy's Reviews, and fellow clients that I consider reliable friends that I admire these 2 gentlemen.

 

I think many good responses have been made to this thread and all feel that the topic does not have to be dragged on infinitum.

 

Boston Bill

[irishjock]

Don't worry, my man. I don't think anyone assumed you were talking about me. At least I didn't. No offence taken at all. (I did check my junk mail folder in a paranoid way, though. ) =)

 

And yes, it is a very different culture with very specific advantages and disadvantages. People communicate in different styles, no doubt.

 

If you write something like:

 

"Hey, I saw your ad and liked what I saw. I am not very experienced with men and am thinking of having a session of approximately ____ hrs together at your place. I am curious about trying things such as ____________. My ideal time for meeting would be ________ days around ________ time. Are you available for that time and do you think we are a good match? What would be the rate for that kind of session? You can email me back, text me to the number I include or call me between ____ and ____. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you."

 

.

 

The email I copied was my second attempt after I wrote a longer email explaining what I am looking for, similar to what you have suggested. I have tried both short, 'lets book an appointment' to longer 'this is what I am interested in' and neither have been very successful with the rated ones... but with the exception of one, the potential contractors were in their 20s and I am starting to realise that people under 30 suck.

 

*that was a joke.

 

If it doesn't bore you, I can private message you about the specific people whenever you have nothing else to do. LOL

[Juan Vancouver]

Irishjock - are we all overlooking the obvious? Go ahead and contact Juan!!!

 

Hey Funguy, thanks for the recommendation. I do hope we will get a chance to meet soon.

 

I am assuming that if Irish Jock hasn't contacted me it's because I am not the kind of guy he is looking for, which totally makes sense. We all have types. I am more than happy to participate in the thread as a consultant... and if he gets to meet unreviewed escorts in Vancouver I hope he will share about his experience with them. It is important for me to know of client's first hand accounts of their experience with other escorts because clients often ask me who else I recommend.

[+ Gar1eth]

For Clarification

 

My previous posting was a question to Bosguy and not Irishjock. I figured that one of the respected escorts he mentioned as being respected was Juan. I though there was a good chance the second one was Thor- but also thought there was a chance it might be Kevin from Vancouver who has had a good reputation for years although I'm not sure if he is still escorting or whether he is retired.

 

Gman

[Diverdan]

Hi Irishjock,

Sorry you are having that experience in Vancouver. I have visited there many times although not for a couple of years. I never experienced what you have when I have been in Vancouver. In fact, Vancouver is one of my favorite cities in the world, have met many wonderful people there, both gay and straight, and have worked there and held meetings in that city as well. I don't have any advise for you beyond what has already been said. I do feel badly that your time and experiences have not been good, but mine have been fantastic, so Vancouver is still one of the top cities in my book for many, many reasons, including the men whom I have met and spent time with over the years.

DD

[Irtwo]

The other thing is that sex for money is not legal in Canada. Time for money is legal, whatever happens between two consenting adults that are spending time together is up to them to negotiate consensually but sexual acts and bodily fluids cannot be contracted or sold.

 

I don't see how that is any different from the laws in the U.S., then. Escorting is legal here, but you can't pay for sex. Is it the enforcement that is different in Canada?

[Juan Vancouver]

I don't see how that is any different from the laws in the U.S., then. Escorting is legal here, but you can't pay for sex. Is it the enforcement that is different in Canada?

 

I am no expert on the US legal code but the great difference as I understand it is that escorting is a euphemism in the States, while it is a licensed activity in Canada, which is understood to also be providing sexual acts. The laws about sex work in Canada are deliberately written for sex workers, not for social companions, and if you engage an escort it is understood by the lawmakers that you may engage in sexual congress with them.

 

In the States, as far as I understand it, "money for time" is just a hopeful legal loophole with the intention of avoiding arrest. Nobody is actually allowed or licensed to spend time for money and it is so much so that if a client stiffs me in the States it would be ridiculous to go to the cops for help. No amount of saying "But officer, I am just charging for my time only" will stop them from arresting me. I'm a hooker, and hookers are lawbreakers.

 

In Canada, since it is perfectly legal, if a client stiffs you or abuses you, you can ask the cops for your help. If a client is robbed or abused by an escort he can feel perfectly safe to go to the cops. And more importantly, if a client forces himself sexually unto a sexual worker, the sexual worker can -with absolutely no eyebrows being raised- accuse the client of non consensual abuse, or statutory rape. A hooker is a perfectly valid member of society.

 

If the contract is for time only, the client will have to ask politely, try to incite the escort's interest and be clean, healthy and ready.

 

If it is time for money only, the escort cannot charge extra for bottoming, cumming, fisting or yodelling.

 

It works in everyone's interest.

 

Also nobody will try to arrest you or bother you for engaging the consensual services of an adult escort. (Unless you try to contact this escort in public, which is illegal.)

 

I believe these two ways of dealing with the subject couldn't be more different.

[jimboivyo]

so, we should now avoid clients in the midwest and all escorts in vancouver... just keeping this list straight