Have you ever Come Across a Liar?

[+ FreshFluff]

So the guy I dated last summer was incredibly charming, attractive, tall, and brilliant. He has a great deal going for him.

 

But he turned out to be a compulsive liar. I'm not talking about saying one is busy at work when they're on a date or fudging divorce dates (men sometimes do that because they know women are afraid of men on the rebound). I'm not even talking about cheating, though he may well have done that too. I'm talking about complete fabrications.

 

For example, he told me that he was an all-American athlete in college; he was drafted by the 49ers; played for 2 months and made 2 touchdowns, and then was released to the Raiders. (I've changed details here in case someone else knows him.) He was indeed a starting varsity athlete in college, in the position he named. But he was not all-American, and according to online records, was never drafted by the 49ers.

 

I Googled earlier, but when the info was missing, I thought I had looked in the wrong place. In fact, I still think that sometimes. I could understand saying something unfalsifiable, like "I was almost drafted." But his story was so detailed, so precise.

 

There were a huge number of smaller lies as well. I wanted to type them out, but I don't even know where to start. It took me a while to start this thread, because I couldn't bring myself to write out all the lies. I'm also embarrassed that I allowed myself to fall for it. These are the times I'm glad I wait a long time to have sex, because that would have made me more emotionally involved

 

This guy's accomplishments are in the media (NYT level, over a long period), so I know those are true. I would have been extremely impressed with his accomplishments plus being a varsity college athletes. I guess he needed the football stuff for his ego, but again, in the age of Google, why not make up something that couldn't be verified. Has anyone else come across someone like this?

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

So the guy I dated last summer was incredibly charming, attractive, tall, and brilliant. He has a great deal going for him.

 

But he turned out to be a compulsive liar. I'm not talking about saying one is busy at work when they're on a date or fudging divorce dates (men sometimes do that because they know women are afraid of men on the rebound). I'm not even talking about cheating, though he may well have done that too. I'm talking about complete fabrications.

 

For example, he told me that he was an all-American athlete in college; he was drafted by the 49ers; played for 2 months and made 2 touchdowns, and then was released to the Raiders. (I've changed details here in case someone else knows him.) He was indeed a starting varsity athlete in college, in the position he named. But he was not all-American, and according to online records, was never drafted by the 49ers.

 

I Googled earlier, but when the info was missing, I thought I had looked in the wrong place. In fact, I still think that sometimes. I could understand saying something unfalsifiable, like "I was almost drafted." But his story was so detailed, so precise.

 

There were a huge number of smaller lies as well. I wanted to type them out, but I don't even know where to start. It took me a while to start this thread, because I couldn't bring myself to write out all the lies. I'm also embarrassed that I allowed myself to fall for it. These are the times I'm glad I wait a long time to have sex, because that would have made me more emotionally involved

 

This guy's accomplishments are in the media (NYT level, over a long period), so I know those are true. I would have been extremely impressed with his accomplishments plus being a varsity college athletes. I guess he needed the football stuff for his ego, but again, in the age of Google, why not make up something that couldn't be verified. Has anyone else come across someone like this?

 

Yes, he was what is known as a sociopath.

 

Run. Run fast and run far.

[nate_sf]

Yes, when I was in my early 20s I met a charming, handsome man and thought I was developing a relationship with him. Apparently several other people (both men and women) were in the same position. He convinced me to make some "investments" and I lost a decent sum of money; others had credit cards stolen, checks forged, you name it. Eventually the law caught up with him and as the facts were revealed, it was astounding how deep and convincing his lies were to so many. People that knew him when he was growing up said they were not surprised... sociopath indeed!

 

It took me a long time to forgive myself for being duped, but at least I got a lot of good meals out of the experience. We went to some really great restaurants!

[+ FreshFluff]

Thanks, Nate and Chris. Chris, I had never thought of the sociopath angle.

 

Nate, I'm sorry that happened to you. It actually makes me angry that this guy took advantage of your kind nature. I'm glad you got something out of him, at least.

 

By the way, I'm no naive little girl. As a professor, I come across lies all the time, so much I've set up rules that keep me from having to evaluate each one. But usually, each lie has a clear motive (e.g. "I'm sick and can't take the exam").

[Tighty]

Thanks, Nate and Chris. Chris, I had never thought of the sociopath angle.

 

Nate, I'm sorry that happened to you. It actually makes me angry that this guy took advantage of your kind nature. I'm glad you got something out of him, at least.

 

By the way, I'm no naive little girl. As a professor, I come across lies all the time, so much I've set up rules that keep me from having to evaluate each one. But usually, each lie has a clear motive (e.g. "I'm sick and can't take the exam").

 

Omg fluffy you're a she? :O

 

I watch a lot of the ID channel and when I read your post it immediately reminded me of those episodes.

[Tighty]

Yes, when I was in my early 20s I met a charming, handsome man and thought I was developing a relationship with him. Apparently several other people (both men and women) were in the same position. He convinced me to make some "investments" and I lost a decent sum of money; others had credit cards stolen, checks forged, you name it. Eventually the law caught up with him and as the facts were revealed, it was astounding how deep and convincing his lies were to so many. People that knew him when he was growing up said they were not surprised... sociopath indeed!

 

It took me a long time to forgive myself for being duped, but at least I got a lot of good meals out of the experience. We went to some really great restaurants!

 

Kind of same with me. He even forged my identity and opened a credit card with his address on it. Uhhhhhhh, why do I have to be reminded of this. It took me years to get over this.

[+ FreshFluff]

Kind of same with me. He even forged my identity and opened a credit card with his address on it. Uhhhhhhh, why do I have to be reminded of this. It took me years to get over this.

 

I'm sorry.

 

Omg fluffy you're a she? :O

 

As feminine as can be..

 

http://s23.postimg.org/pwkcsi9xn/Persian_Green_Eyes.jpg

[Guest]

Omg fluffy you're a she? :O

 

I watch a lot of the ID channel and when I read your post it immediately reminded me of those episodes.

 

Well, she did say "I'm no naive little girl." That doesn't prove a gender, does it? You remember that song "I could never be your woman" by White Town? This is the person who sings it:

http://dailybeatz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/white-town.jpg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQWt3oMids

 

Although the person who sang "I ain't no hollaback girl" was, in fact, female:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vffLStEduUE/UaAwq7snVaI/AAAAAAAAAQk/ZCG5ne_C858/s1600/HollaBackGirl.gif

 

Not a guy:

http://global3.memecdn.com/I-AINT-NO-HOLLABACH-GIRL_o_97241.jpg

[Guest]

Although for many years, I thought that the person who sang "I know what boys like" was a guy in drag. I lost a bet when someone insisted it was really a female!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X_pmHr7zW8

 

http://www.nevermindthebuspass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/patty-donahue-corbis-660-80.jpg

[gallahadesquire]

From the Huff Post 08/23/2013 [the OTHER font of all knowledge and Wisdom]:

 

11 signs you might be dating a sociopath:

 

RED FLAG #1. Having an oversized ego.

RED FLAG #2. Lying and exhibiting manipulative behavior.

RED FLAG #3. Exhibiting a lack of empathy.

RED FLAG #4. Showing a lack of remorse or shame.

RED FLAG #5. Staying eerily calm in scary or dangerous situations.

RED FLAG #6. Behaving irresponsibly or with extreme impulsivity.

RED FLAG #7. Having few friends.

RED FLAG #8. Being charming--but only superfically.

RED FLAG #9. Living by the "pleasure principle."

RED FLAG #10. Showing disregard for societal norms.

RED FLAG #11. Having "intense" eyes.

 

Have a nice day.

[+ FreshFluff]

OK, guys. Girls will be boys and boys will be girls. It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.

 

But let's devote this thread to extreme liars. I doubt this guy is a common criminal. He's worked in too many high profile positions for that. He was fired from his last job when a new boss came in, but he went and started a new firm with others from his old company. He does seem to have a few close friends, whom he wanted to introduce me to LOL.

[+ FreshFluff]

Thanks, Gallahad. To make it simple, I won't quote Gallad's post but will instead bold the statements that seem applicable or not.

 

RED FLAG #1. Having an oversized ego.

Yeah, though he claimed to be modest. But lots of guys in the financial world are like that.

 

RED FLAG #2. Lying and exhibiting manipulative behavior.

 

Yep.

 

RED FLAG #3. Exhibiting a lack of empathy.

 

I noticed that one too. The only times he got mad on my behalf where when one of his pet issues was involved.

 

 

RED FLAG #5. Staying eerily calm in scary or dangerous situations.

 

He once described a situation like this and said he hauled ass to the elevators.

RED FLAG #6. Behaving irresponsibly or with extreme impulsivity.

Mostly, he made impulsive plans to travel together and then forgot them. He also asked for exclusivity out of the blue the night after our first date, a first for me. I thought he just liked me and didn't want me taken by someone else.

RED FLAG #7. Having few friends.

 

He probably has as many as i do, but I don't have that many either.

 

RED FLAG #11. Having "intense" eyes.

 

Yes! I always noticed his intense gaze and told him about it.

[maninsoma]

I've encountered men such as this twice. The first time occurred when I was in college. I was quite smitten when I first met the guy. We stayed up all night talking, and his tales of his life's woes and triumphs really moved me. He seemed really sweet. Fast forward a few months and I'm living with him and another guy. He was a good liar, but not so good that I didn't finally see him for what he was once I was around him that much. The worst was when he would try to get me to lie for him. He would schedule more than one date at a time and then, when the one he decided he didn't want to go out with that night would show up, he wanted the other roommate or I to tell the guy some lie to get him to leave. I would simply let the guy in the apartment, show him to the liar, and walk away. Well, now that I'm thinking about him maybe that wasn't the worst. The worst was when he staged a robbery in the middle of the night, stealing wallets and jewelry from everyone in the apartment and then acting as if he accidentally left the apartment door open that night and that someone must have taken advantage of the opportunity. Lies like that don't work when you're caught with the stolen property.

 

I was smarter the second time I encountered someone like this. I could tell he was a bullshitter by the end of our first date. To this day I have no idea whether he rose to the same sociopathic level as the first guy, but I didn't want to stick around to find out.

[Guest Starbuck]

"Sociopath" is a big word. We ought to be careful when using a term we'd apply to lone gunmen and others at that level of mental disfunction. Sometimes a problem of chronic lying stems from a lesser mental health issue; sometimes its cause is as small and sad as a fragile ego. Knowing a man who, I think, fell into the latter category--married for 60+ years, a dependable father, a beloved grandfather, a small business owner who was liked and respected by this customers--I know that the rest of us can't always see the reason for the fragile ego and, so, we discount that as a reason for the lying.

 

What we need to feel good about ourselves--how much love or wealth or glory--is a very individual thing; some of us just don't have enough of whatever, and so we embellish reality of reinvent it altogether. We want people to like us more but, instead, when they become aware of the lying, they usually like us less. They either tolerate the bullshit with gritted teeth or they flee.

[Bosguy]

"Sociopath" is a big word. We ought to be careful when using a term we'd apply to lone gunmen and others at that level of mental disfunction. Sometimes a problem of chronic lying stems from a lesser mental health issue; sometimes its cause is as small and sad as a fragile ego. Knowing a man who, I think, fell into the latter category--married for 60+ years, a dependable father, a beloved grandfather, a small business owner who was liked and respected by this customers--I know that the rest of us can't always see the reason for the fragile ego and, so, we discount that as a reason for the lying.

 

What we need to feel good about ourselves--how much love or wealth or glory--is a very individual thing; some of us just don't have enough of whatever, and so we embellish reality of reinvent it altogether. We want people to like us more but, instead, when they become aware of the lying, they usually like us less. They either tolerate the bullshit with gritted teeth or they flee.

 

I agree with Starbuck's assessment. Sociopath is an extreme which a part may be lying but it goes way beyond lying. I believe that lying is very common and widespread in today's society. People may want to hide something about themselves that they perceive is embarrassing. I think the most common use is to inflate their ego in order to gain friends or influence others. The shame is that many of these people are great without the lies. The danger, as I see it, is that excessive liars eventually actually believe their own lies and set their lives in turmoil.

 

Boston Bill

[maninsoma]

"Sociopath" is a big word. We ought to be careful when using a term we'd apply to lone gunmen and others at that level of mental disfunction. Sometimes a problem of chronic lying stems from a lesser mental health issue; sometimes its cause is as small and sad as a fragile ego. Knowing a man who, I think, fell into the latter category--married for 60+ years, a dependable father, a beloved grandfather, a small business owner who was liked and respected by this customers--I know that the rest of us can't always see the reason for the fragile ego and, so, we discount that as a reason for the lying.

 

What we need to feel good about ourselves--how much love or wealth or glory--is a very individual thing; some of us just don't have enough of whatever, and so we embellish reality of reinvent it altogether. We want people to like us more but, instead, when they become aware of the lying, they usually like us less. They either tolerate the bullshit with gritted teeth or they flee.

 

Yes, "sociopath" is a big word. Its use is not confined to murderers who are socially isolated or "others at that level of mental disfunction (sic)." In DSM parlance, the accurate diagnosis would be Antisocial Personality Disorder. I didn't quickly find a link to the DSM V diagnostic criteria, but in the DSM IV they are the following:

 

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

 

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

 

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

 

impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;

 

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

 

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

 

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

 

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

 

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.

 

C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

 

D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

 

____

 

So, yes, just being a liar doesn't make someone a sociopath.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

Yes, "sociopath" is a big word. Its use is not confined to murderers who are socially isolated or "others at that level of mental disfunction (sic)." In DSM parlance, the accurate diagnosis would be Antisocial Personality Disorder. I didn't quickly find a link to the DSM V diagnostic criteria, but in the DSM IV they are the following:

 

A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:

 

failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

 

deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

 

impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;

 

irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

 

reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

 

consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

 

lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

 

B) The individual is at least age 18 years.

 

C) There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

 

D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

 

____

 

So, yes, just being a liar doesn't make someone a sociopath.

 

Of course that's true—and armchair diagnoses are a dime a dozen on an Internet message board. Was my experience with a true sociopath? Maybe, maybe not. He did fit every parameter, did this behavior repeatedly, and left a huge swath of destruction both to himself and to others in his selfish little wake.

 

And he didn't care. At all. He may not have been diagnosed, but he sure as hell had a convincing Halloween costume.

 

On the plus side, getting the taste of him out of my mouth is one of the reasons I reentered escorting, because I wanted to be around nice, normal people.

[+ Charlie]

"Sociopath" is a big word. We ought to be careful when using a term we'd apply to lone gunmen and others at that level of mental disfunction. Sometimes a problem of chronic lying stems from a lesser mental health issue; sometimes its cause is as small and sad as a fragile ego. Knowing a man who, I think, fell into the latter category--married for 60+ years, a dependable father, a beloved grandfather, a small business owner who was liked and respected by this customers--I know that the rest of us can't always see the reason for the fragile ego and, so, we discount that as a reason for the lying.

 

What we need to feel good about ourselves--how much love or wealth or glory--is a very individual thing; some of us just don't have enough of whatever, and so we embellish reality of reinvent it altogether. We want people to like us more but, instead, when they become aware of the lying, they usually like us less. They either tolerate the bullshit with gritted teeth or they flee.

 

My first partner often embellished, exaggerated, insinuated, and made-up details about his past, his family, etc. He didn't do it to manipulate or cheat the hearers, just because he enjoyed the make-believe. Even after four years living together, I was never completely sure which things were true and which were not.

[+ FreshFluff]

"Sociopath" is a big word. We ought to be careful when using a term we'd apply to lone gunmen and others at that level of mental disfunction. Sometimes a problem of chronic lying stems from a lesser mental health issue; sometimes its cause is as small and sad as a fragile ego. Knowing a man who, I think, fell into the latter category--married for 60+ years, a dependable father, a beloved grandfather, a small business owner who was liked and respected by this customers--I know that the rest of us can't always see the reason for the fragile ego and, so, we discount that as a reason for the lying.

 

What we need to feel good about ourselves--how much love or wealth or glory--is a very individual thing; some of us just don't have enough of whatever, and so we embellish reality of reinvent it altogether. We want people to like us more but, instead, when they become aware of the lying, they usually like us less. They either tolerate the bullshit with gritted teeth or they flee.

 

I was thinking that.

 

When I complimented him, he would often respond, "I am a very flawed person." The tone was always serious, and I wondered what he meant.

 

I don't think he's a sociopath really. I think he just needs to believe in a version of himself that's different from reality.

[Guest Starbuck]

I think he just needs to believe in a version of himself that's different from reality.

 

Well, FF, I guess some of the characters described in this thread may well have been sociopaths (some were certainly criminals), but it sounds like the men you and I mentioned were just NEEDY in a way that we find hard to understand.

 

I will tell you one thing more about my guy. At the very end of his life, dying from cancer, he was cared for and supported by a team of medical professionals who saw all the good in him--his friendliness and likeability and bravery, his commitment to his family and theirs to him. He thought the world of the doctors and nurses who took care of him; he respected their skill and appreciated their humanity. And yet, in the last big lie of his life, over the course of several visits, he told them about his role in a famous military event. They responded with interest, even awe, the first time he mentioned it. They wanted to know more. And so he gave them more.

[+ FreshFluff]

Well, FF, I guess some of the characters described in this thread may well have been sociopaths (some were certainly criminals), but it sounds like the men you and I mentioned were just NEEDY in a way that we find hard to understand.

 

I agree on both counts.

 

I will tell you one thing more about my guy. At the very end of his life, dying from cancer, he was cared for and supported by a team of medical professionals who saw all the good in him--his friendliness and likeability and bravery, his commitment to his family and theirs to him. He thought the world of the doctors and nurses who took care of him; he respected their skill and appreciated their humanity. And yet, in the last big lie of his life, over the course of several visits, he told them about his role in a famous military event. They responded with interest, even awe, the first time he mentioned it. They wanted to know more. And so he gave them more.

 

Wow! I'm guessing D-day. Was he in the military in the first place?

 

I'm sure they've heard lots of stories from patients, so they may have been humoring him. I could

[Guest]

 

RED FLAG #11. Having "intense" eyes.

 

 

Say it ain't so, Zac Efron...

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2013/video/130930/zac-efron-300.jpg

 

http://calgary.virginradio.ca/Pics/CelebSleaze/zac%20efron.jpeg

 

http://wallchips.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/zac-efron.jpg

 

http://carlycomesupforair.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/zacefronbest.jpg

[Guest]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tCCK5wYrFr4/TE4jpAFjvBI/AAAAAAAABo4/iJNF_kLbR-Q/s1600/zacefron.jpg

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/0cadec8c2967166a6a725109e68d6748/tumblr_mlsc07vDBp1raar5vo1_500.jpg

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8595756843_a902271433_z.jpg

 

http://mockingjay.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Zac-Efron.jpg

[Guest]

On the subject of intense eyes, we can't ignore Ian Somerhalder...

http://ilarge.listal.com/image/1429560/936full-ian-somerhalder.jpg

 

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28000000/Ian-Wallpaper-ian-somerhalder-28037976-1280-800.jpg

 

http://media.melty.fr/article-1369048-ajust_930/ian-somerhalder-sur-la-plage.jpg

 

http://media.meltycampus.fr/article-1491160-ajust_930/ian-somerhalder-le-plus-vieux-de-la-serie.jpg

[Guest]

Sigh. Colton Haynes also has intense eyes...

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26900000/Colton-Haynes-colton-haynes-26945293-500-469.jpg