ATM cards

[+ friendofsheila]

My new bank is telling me that ATM cards, ones that require a PIN, are no more. They said the one I have with my old bank is probably "grandfathered" in and the industry is moving over to "debit plus credit" cards, where it can be both.

 

Which stinks. Because if that "D+C" card gets stolen, it can be used instantly as a credit card.

 

"But they always refund the disputed charges" the bank told me. Yeah, well, I'd rather have the security of my card requiring a PIN, rather than the inconvenience of having to dispute charges.

 

Makes no sense to me, but it's probably making money for somebody further up the food chain....

[rvwnsd]

My new bank is telling me that ATM cards, ones that require a PIN, are no more. They said the one I have with my old bank is probably "grandfathered" in and the industry is moving over to "debit plus credit" cards, where it can be both....

 

If it isn't too late, dump the Bank of Bullshit and find another new bank. Although most banks issue a debit card by default, they will typically issue an old-fashioned ATM card (without the VISA or MasterCard logo) on request. That being said, very few customers request ATM cards anymore. If you don't mind my asking, what bank did you switch to? You can PM me if you would like.

[edjames]

What a load of crap! Whatever "new bank" you're using is trying to scam you into paying higher fees for the credit/debit card.

I, too, would dump them quick. ATM cards are still very much alive and in use. The rep you spoke to was totally incorrect.

The minute you heard this spiel, you should have been out the door and down the road to a more reputable institution. Try a national bank like Chase, BofA, or WellsFargo.

You wouldn't buy the first car you see on the lot would you? Banking is the same. Find an institution that really wants you for a customer and is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck. Since interest rates are so low, they can't offer you much more than a lower credit card rate or fee schedule. There's a lot of competetion in the financial sector, so take advantage of that. Banks love direct deposits so that helps you negotiate reduced or no fees. Online banking is a big plus, too.

 

Speak to family and firends about which local banks they use and if they are satisifed.

 

ED

[bigvalboy]

What a load of crap! Whatever "new bank" you're using is trying to scam you into paying higher fees for the credit/debit card.

I, too, would dump them quick. ATM cards are still very much alive and in use. The rep you spoke to was totally incorrect.

The minute you heard this spiel, you should have been out the door and down the road to a more reputable institution. Try a national bank like Chase, BofA, or WellsFargo.

You wouldn't buy the first car you see on the lot would you? Banking is the same. Find an institution that really wants you for a customer and is going to give you the biggest bang for your buck. Since interest rates are so low, they can't offer you much more than a lower credit card rate or fee schedule. There's a lot of competetion in the financial sector, so take advantage of that. Banks love direct deposits so that helps you negotiate reduced or no fees. Online banking is a big plus, too.

 

Speak to family and firends about which local banks they use and if they are satisifed.

 

ED

 

+1...plus you should not be concerned about D&C cards. You are protected from unwanted purchases just like a credit card. You can set a low charge limit and simply call when you want to make a large purchase. Most of my daily purchase never exceed more than a few hundred dollars. I set a low limit. I even tried purchasing a TV for the kitchen one night for only a few hundred dollars. My bank froze the card at point of purchase and called me within a minute of me attempting swipe the card. They routed me through security to verify that it was me. A 5 min inconvenience yes, but if someone was trying to use the card, they wouldn't have gotten far. At least that's how it is with my bank.

 

Edjames is correct....I don't do online banking, but for those that want that feature, it is absolutely incredible, and can make life infinitely easier. Transferring funds and making deposits via your iphone can be wonderful feature for those that travel or lead busy lives that involves running a business on the go...

[rvwnsd]

What a load of crap! Whatever "new bank" you're using is trying to scam you into paying higher fees for the credit/debit card.

I, too, would dump them quick. ATM cards are still very much alive and in use.

 

I didn't think about this when I first replied, but debit cards (which is what they are called) are somewhat less attractive to banks because they are no longer profitable, thanks to a law passed a few years ago limiting the debit card transaction processing fee charged to merchants. (Small banks are still allowed to charge the old, higher fees. If this is a small bank they might be using the fees as a revenue engine) Some banks charge the customer a fee for the debit card itself or for using it. Does your new bank charge a fee? If so, you have even more reason to find a new bank pronto.

 

The rep you spoke to was totally incorrect...

 

True! Go to a branch and request to speak with the branch manager. If that person gives you the same line, find a different bank. If the manager informs you that the banker you talked to was wrong and they do, indeed, issue ATM cards, contact the bank's office of the president or consumer affairs team or whatever they call it and complain about the banker who misinformed you. If that person gave you bad information, God knows what else they are saying. If the bank takes your complaint seriously, good for them. If not, dump them. If the manager informs you that they don't, for whatever reason, issue ATM cards find a new bank. Every other bank I know of still does.

 

+1...plus you should not be concerned about D&C cards. You are protected from unwanted purchases just like a credit card.

 

Although you are protected against fraud just like you are on a credit card, there are a few important distinctions. First, the debit card is tied to a deposit account. If you suffer a loss, you will be without those funds until you (and/or your bank) detect and report the loss and your bank issues provisional credit pending their fraud investigation. That means you could experience returned transactions if the fraudster cleaned out your bank account and said transactions posted before you notified your bank (or they notified you). By the way, that is possible with an ATM card and I will get to that in a minute. That said, you should be no more concerned about experiencing a loss with a debit card than you are about getting into a traffic accident. Keep it in the back of your mind and be cautious.

 

You can set a low charge limit and simply call when you want to make a large purchase. Most of my daily purchase never exceed more than a few hundred dollars. I set a low limit. I even tried purchasing a TV for the kitchen one night for only a few hundred dollars. My bank froze the card at point of purchase and called me within a minute of me attempting swipe the card. They routed me through security to verify that it was me. A 5 min inconvenience yes, but if someone was trying to use the card, they wouldn't have gotten far. At least that's how it is with my bank.

 

Many banks offer this service but don't advertise it. Another good feature is email and text banking alerts. They alert you to everything from your start of day balance to large transactions. My bank alerts me as soon as a transaction is approved. It is funny...I buy something and as soon as the transaction completes my phone chimes because I receive a text.

 

ATM cards are carry the same risk as debit cards, although the presence of a PIN makes them slightly more difficult for a fraudster to use. A common way to commit fraud is to install a "sniffing" device on an ATM that can read the magnetic stripe information and record the PIN as you enter it on the ATM key[ad. The fraudster simply creates a card and goes to an ATM to clean out your account and/or makes purchases. This is more common than you might think. Several banks in Southern California were hit a few years ago. Another method is much more low tech. the fraudster sets themselves up with a camera near an ATM and records an image of the card and records the customer entering their PIN. they create a fictitious card and enter the PIN and away they go. Next time you go to an ATM or use a PIN pad at a merchant see if there is a shield around they keypad. That shield can thwart the low-tech approach to stealing PINs.

 

Like every industry, there are good and bad actors in banking. I work for a large regional bank that, I think, does a better job at serving its customers than the very large national banks. However, as Ed points out, the large national banks have well-developed suites of products and offer a wide range of cards for their customers. In my experience, small banks and credit unions are slower to catch on, which is interesting because they could save money by doing so. The large regional banks typically offer the same products and services as a Wells, BofA, or Chase with the added benefit of not making their customers feel lost when they need to resolve an issue.

 

I will say that dealing with Chase (which is one of my employer's largest competitors) when my father passed away was an absolute dream come true. I could walk into any branch, anywhere, and receive the same level of service I received from the branch where my dad did business. The only time I experienced a problem was when I attempted to close the estate account by drawing it down to zero. I should have known to request it to be closed, but I didn't, so it remained open and the account was charged a fee. Even though it was my fault, the banker was apologetic, immediately reversed the service fee, closed the account and explained why estate accounts don't automatically close on a zero balance. (I knew this...just forgot) They are getting a lot of bad press right now for investment banking practices, but from a consumer standpoint they are very good to work with.

 

I hope this helps.

[bigvalboy]

rvwnsd I do have a question. All of this is very helpful. If say for example I have a limit on my account of 400 dollars in any 24 hour period, which is withdrawal and spending, how can a thief go beyond that amount?

 

I too am alerted on deposit and withdrawals via my cell phone. As an example, when I first moved here, I inadvertently hit my spending limit. I had forgot to notify them that I would be using the card numerous times in one day. The fourth time I used the card for a purchase at a grocery store for 60 dollars they declined the card at the point of purchase, saying that it was unusal activity on the card. I called and they cleared it, but later that night I attempted to buy a TV for only 300 dollars and again they froze the card, at the point of purchase. Again they cleared the card.

 

So based on this, is it possible for a thief to go beyond my set limits in spending/ and or daily limits in cash withdrawal? And as you say clean out my account. If so, how would he manage it? Very curious, and is there anything else I can do to protect myself? I am with BofA...if that helps.

[rvwnsd]

rvwnsd I do have a question. All of this is very helpful. If say for example I have a limit on my account of 400 dollars in any 24 hour period, which is withdrawal and spending, how can a thief go beyond that amount?

 

 

I am running out the door and can't post a though-out reply, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I will reply later.

 

I hope your constitution is sufficiently strong to handle all of the suspense.

[bigvalboy]

I am running out the door and can't post a though-out reply, but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I will reply later.

 

I hope your constitution is sufficiently strong to handle all of the suspense.

 

Absolutely I can wait, but this is information that I am very much interested in...chat later.

[+ friendofsheila]

If it isn't too late, dump the Bank of Bullshit and find another new bank. Although most banks issue a debit card by default, they will typically issue an old-fashioned ATM card (without the VISA or MasterCard logo) on request. That being said, very few customers request ATM cards anymore. If you don't mind my asking, what bank did you switch to? You can PM me if you would like.

 

I switched to a small credit union.

 

I seem to remember my former bank attempting to switch me to the D+C card, but I nixed that. So I wouldn't be surprised if more, if not all, banks are trying to do it for some reason related to profit.

 

Here's where I read more about them (I didn't have time to read it carefully yet): http://www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/debitcards1.htm

[+ friendofsheila]

+1...plus you should not be concerned about D&C cards. You are protected from unwanted purchases just like a credit card.

 

Weeeelllllll, see my link above for contrary info.

[+ friendofsheila]

BTW, for the moment I'm keeping the old bank so I can keep the ATM card.

 

The new credit union said I could request an ATM card, but they're not sure the card issuers will do it.

 

If my former bank puts the screws to me eventually to switch to a D+C, I'll say "adios" to them.

[rvwnsd]

rvwnsd I do have a question. All of this is very helpful. If say for example I have a limit on my account of 400 dollars in any 24 hour period, which is withdrawal and spending, how can a thief go beyond that amount?

 

The spending limits at most banks are per calendar day, not per 24 hour period. So, if you have a $400 daily spending and cash withdrawal limit, a fraudster could withdraw $400 at, say, 10:00 PM and another $400 at 12:01 AM the following day.

 

I too am alerted on deposit and withdrawals via my cell phone. As an example, when I first moved here, I inadvertently hit my spending limit. I had forgot to notify them that I would be using the card numerous times in one day. The fourth time I used the card for a purchase at a grocery store for 60 dollars they declined the card at the point of purchase, saying that it was unusal activity on the card. I called and they cleared it, but later that night I attempted to buy a TV for only 300 dollars and again they froze the card, at the point of purchase. Again they cleared the card.

 

So based on this, is it possible for a thief to go beyond my set limits in spending/ and or daily limits in cash withdrawal? And as you say clean out my account. If so, how would he manage it? Very curious, and is there anything else I can do to protect myself? I am with BofA...if that helps.

 

If your daily limit is only $400, then the fraudster would get away with $400 per day until the card is shut down. If you had a higher limit, they could get away with the higher limit. If you have more than one account linked to a card, they could withdraw money from both accounts. However, you mentioned you have alerts and your bank is diligent about tracking purchases, so your exposure is limited and you would recoup any losses fairly quickly. Like I said in an earlier post, the risk of sustaining a loss is similar to that of being in a car accident. It probably won't happen if you are careful and typically when one occurs you are covered and are made whole relatively quickly.

 

My point is that debit cards are not risk-free. You are careful and will likely not expose yourself to a situation where you could sustain a loss. You also bank at a real bank. BofA has its flaws, but they take fraud prevention and detection very seriously. I don't agree with some of their lending and investment banking practices and they make more than their share of mistakes, but at least their employees know they issue ATM cards.

[bigvalboy]

Thank you for the information. This actually makes me feel better about how I am doing my banking. Not long ago my phone rang at 3am in the morning alerting me to an online purchase against my card for 123 dollars at some tech company based out of Texas. I immediately called the credit card company and in a short investigation realized it was from Best Buy. I thought someone was purchasing items on line in the middle of the night with my card. They froze the card immediately, and allowed me to deny the charges by phone. The next day I found out that it was a yearly anti virus protection plan that came with the computer, but that I had never used, but was automatically renewed. The next day Best Buy did reverse the charges.

 

It was good to know that I was alerted to transactions so rapidly, and had it been actually fraud, the damages to me would have been limited and temporary.

 

And yes I think that BofA's lending practices are suspect, but I have been very impressed thus far in regards to their fraud protection. Thanks for taking the time for your in depth response.

[bigvalboy]

Weeeelllllll, see my link above for contrary info.

 

I read the link, and with my bank at least with my D&C card I am fairly well protected, according to what I have experienced.