Another guy with no imagination...

[Guest]

I got this link from the home page. Now that DOMA is over, this guy really couldn't find a U.S. citizen willing to get hitched with him?

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/10/i-got-arrested-for-the-267000-lgbt-immigrants-like-me/

[Juan Vancouver]

I got this link from the home page. Now that DOMA is over, this guy really couldn't find a U.S. citizen willing to get hitched with him?

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/10/i-got-arrested-for-the-267000-lgbt-immigrants-like-me/

 

As someone who doesn't live in the US I realize that I might be missing something here but... are you saying that this guy wanting to bring awareness to the obvious flaws of the immigration laws comes from his lack of imagination?

 

What I understand from this article is that many people currently living in the US, some of them even having been born there are going through terrible conditions that tear families and lives apart. He -and many other people in many other states- are advocating for a revision of the immigration laws so that people can live in a more humane way without constant fear of having their lives destroyed because of their illegal status...

 

And you are suggesting that instead of being an active part in the political life -something that so many more people should be considering to do- he instead should find someone with whom he can commit immigration fraud by getting hitched?

 

I am very confused.

 

I am sure I grossly misunderstood your post. If that is the case, please let me know what you meant originally.

[rvwnsd]

I got this link from the home page. Now that DOMA is over, this guy really couldn't find a U.S. citizen willing to get hitched with him?

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/10/i-got-arrested-for-the-267000-lgbt-immigrants-like-me/

 

It isn't quite that easy. A close friend, who happens to be a heterosexual woman, married a mutual friend so she could get a green card. She and her husband went through countless interviews and home visits, had questionnaires sent to themselves and friends, and were required to live together. She eventually received her green card. Although they are not in love with each other, neither is at a point where they want to have a boyfriend/girlfriend. However, when that time comes, they will be in a predicament. LGBT couples living in a state that recognizes same-sex marriage would face the same situation.

[+ Chris Eisenhower]

I got this link from the home page. Now that DOMA is over, this guy really couldn't find a U.S. citizen willing to get hitched with him?

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/10/i-got-arrested-for-the-267000-lgbt-immigrants-like-me/

 

I have a friend (a woman) who is in a similar predicament. It's not nearly as easy as they portray it in the movies. But then, few things are except finding your true love just like in "Pretty Woman."

 

Although I just realized I don't have a fire escape. Shit.

[+ Oliver]

... It's not nearly as easy as they portray it in the movies. But then, few things are except finding your true love just like in "Pretty Woman." Although I just realized I don't have a fire escape. Shit.

And I'm not particularly enamored of opera.

[Guest]

As someone who doesn't live in the US I realize that I might be missing something here but... are you saying that this guy wanting to bring awareness to the obvious flaws of the immigration laws comes from his lack of imagination?

 

What I understand from this article is that many people currently living in the US, some of them even having been born there are going through terrible conditions that tear families and lives apart. He -and many other people in many other states- are advocating for a revision of the immigration laws so that people can live in a more humane way without constant fear of having their lives destroyed because of their illegal status...

 

And you are suggesting that instead of being an active part in the political life -something that so many more people should be considering to do- he instead should find someone with whom he can commit immigration fraud by getting hitched?

 

I am very confused.

 

I am sure I grossly misunderstood your post. If that is the case, please let me know what you meant originally.

 

Don't be confused. I'll be happy to clarify. First of all, no one born in the U.S. has any immigration problems. The United States Constitution says that all persons born in the U.S., and subject to the laws thereof (in other words, not the children of diplomats with diplomatic immunity), are automatically U.S. citizens. The only way for someone born in the U.S. (other than those of diplomatic families) to NOT be an American citizen is for that person to formally renounce his citizenship. I'm not suggesting anyone commit immigration fraud. Twelve years ago, when I was in my 30s and my current domestic partner was not that much older than Juan Ramos is now, I met my current domestic partner. He had been told by a university in Pennsylvania that he would be getting a student visa, but his application got mixed up, apparently due to some 9/11/01 confusion. He had been subjected to some pretty harsh treatment due to his sexual preference in his native country--a country which the US State Departments warns its citizens about the dangers of being identified at/near gay venues (in other words, a country known to be unsafe for gay people). Since we hit it off, I told him he could stay with me, and I would help him get asylum. He did get his asylum, then work permit, then green card, then citizenship. Had DOMA not been in place, the process would have been simpler. Our relationship is not a sham--the proof of which is that we're still together long after he got work and the right to stay here permanently.

I'm not sure what you're talking about when you refer to "flaws" in our immigration system. We have laws that need to be respected, just like you do in Canada. In fact, I have read repeated reports on this very website of escorts being sent back to the U.S. when Canadian immigration found evidence that an American visitor was planning to escort while in Canada. While back on the ship during an Alaskan cruise after departing Skagway AK, I heard that a tour bus was turned back at the border in Fraser BC while trying to do a tour of the Yukon--even though no exchange of money took place or was to take place in Canada--because they supposedly needed a Canadian business visa. While it is true that very few people would choose to live in Canada if they have the option of living in the U.S., I'm sure most Canadians like to see their immigration laws respected as well.

In other words, if I were a whole lot younger than I am now--and I didn't already have a domestic partner--I wouldn't mind tying the knot with Juan Ramos (yes, I used to be considered quite handsome myself in my day--and still not bad for my age). And I wouldn't be interested in doing it if the marriage were just a sham. If we didn't get along personally and sexually, I wouldn't marry someone. If he's not a jerk, he should be able to find someone he can get along with as well.

[+ Funguy]

Tho I am an American, I and a lot of others would take issue with your statement "While it is true that very few people would choose to live in Canada if they have the option of living in the U.S...". That's a pretty strong statement. I wonder what Juan and others have to say about that!

[docred]

I think the OP has no clue about how hard it is to have a lover that is not a US citizen (and a pretty huge ego). Dear friends of mine have been a couple for 9 years. The foreign born guy (Colombian) was in the US on a student visa which was about to expire. Not wanting to break any laws the only option they had was to emigrate...Canada would have been very welcoming!...or try and fight the "migra" After several years of legal battles they finally obtained a green card for J. and now can live in peace as a couple.

 

Yes we have laws and rules. Are they just and fair? Not IMHO. We should be welcoming immigrants, this country was built by immigrants and immigrants bring energy, new ideas and new life into the good old U.S. of A>

[Guest]

I think the OP has no clue about how hard it is to have a lover that is not a US citizen (and a pretty huge ego). Dear friends of mine have been a couple for 9 years. The foreign born guy (Colombian) was in the US on a student visa which was about to expire. Not wanting to break any laws the only option they had was to emigrate...Canada would have been very welcoming!...or try and fight the "migra" After several years of legal battles they finally obtained a green card for J. and now can live in peace as a couple.

 

You may need to re-read the posting I wrote to which you're responding. It clearly stated that my current domestic partner was not a U.S. citizen when we got together and for years thereafter. I'm glad that Canada would have been welcoming. Apparently, according to your post, it was worth several years of legal battles to avoid the fate of having to move up to our friendly neighbors to the north. I'm glad that your dear friends are now living in peace in the US. I suspect they had to struggle with many of the same issues that my DP and I had to face.

[Guest]

Tho I am an American, I and a lot of others would take issue with your statement "While it is true that very few people would choose to live in Canada if they have the option of living in the U.S...". That's a pretty strong statement. I wonder what Juan and others have to say about that!

 

Well, there are two Juans--Juan from Vancouver and Juan Ramos, the El Salvadoran who got himself arrested. I certainly know what Juan Ramos would say. If he had wanted to live in Canada, there was nothing to stop him. He paid a coyote $15,000 to get him into the U.S., and endured harsh desert conditions on his way into this country, but there's no fence or barrier between Canada and the U.S. Anyone who wants to live in Canada can just keep walking. I have great respect for Canada and the Canadians. Wonderful people. I know TONS of Canadians here. None want to live in Canada. If you google "famous Canadians," you'll come up with a list of people most of whom live in the U.S.. Nothing wrong with the beautiful country or the friendly Canadians. I suspect the main reason far fewer people want to live there is simply the atrocious climate. That would be my reason. Hell, I'd love to live in Canada if it were summer all year long. But, for me personally, no way would I want to put up with those long winters year after year. Much as some people might think it was for our freedoms and Constitution, probably the reason few people want to live in Canada simply relates to the climate. But I don't know for a fact why people don't want to live there. All I know is what I see.

[Newly]

Wow. I happen to love Canada and Canadians have been extremely nice to me whenever I've visited. Although it's not a tropical country it's hardly all cold either. I believe Juan lives in Vancouver and the weather there is a lot like Seattle, with absolutely beautiful scenery. Anyone who thinks that everyone would rather live in the US than Canada is not only wrong but being very disrespectful of one of our very best allies. I spent some time in Nova Scotia last year and again was amazed by how beautiful it was....and I certainly didn't see any Canadians complaining about not living in the US!

[Steven_Draker]

Are these type of arguments and conversation beneficial for good International Relations?

[Juan Vancouver]

Are these type of arguments and conversation beneficial for good International Relations?

 

I believe (And so does most of the international Diplomatic Community) that if kept within the realm of factual and respectful discourse, we not only have the right, but the duty to engage in conversations that promote enquiry and growth.

 

First of all, no one born in the U.S. has any immigration problems.

 

This is where it would first appear that you didn't read the article. -Needless to say that if one is a US citizen one doesn't need to immigrate to the US-. The article refers to a very real problem that MANY US citizens are going through every single day. The article says that it is happening to 1100 families EVERY day. This is the case of any child born in the US to illegal immigrant parents, who in their right have citizenship, but who then are torn apart from their families when they are deported to their countries of origin. Then the children are abandoned in the US to be taken care of by friends, far away relatives or the system. That is a huge flaw and one that in a climate of fiscal accountability should raise many flags considering how taxing to the system this sometimes is.

 

 

Twelve years ago, when I was in my 30s and my current domestic partner was not that much older than Juan Ramos is now, I met my current domestic partner. He did get his asylum, then work permit, then green card, then citizenship. Had DOMA not been in place, the process would have been simpler. Our relationship is not a sham--the proof of which is that we're still together long after he got work and the right to stay here permanently.

 

I am very happy that you got your happy ending and I wish you both all sorts of happiness. The article that you posted, however, doesn't mention anywhere that the intention of Juan Ramos was to receive his green card. His intention, stated clearly in several paragraphs throughout the whole article, stated so many times that it became repetitive, was to bring awareness, to incite political dialogue and to hopefully promote a real reform in immigration laws.

 

His actions, far from unimaginative, were a mature decision, albeit a very hard one to make. His political stance might in fact sacrifice his own chances to ever receive a green card, but he did it -together with eight actual members of congress, real US americans- hoping this is a push in the right direction for everyone. Not just for himself.

 

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about when you refer to "flaws" in our immigration system.

 

I would be very naive if I thought that any immigration system in the world didn't have flaws, and I am very glad that in every country there is a committed group of individuals entirely devoted to raise awareness bout systems that they intimately know and understand. That is what keeps us growing and keep our laws fair and relevant. The US immigration system has flaws, the Canadian immigration system has flaws. They are very specific to each country but they exist

 

I am not a US immigration expert but I just have to repeat what many have pointed out before. Leaving aside the matter of families being torn apart, I can think of whole seasonal industries that depend entirely on cheap illegal immigrant labour to subsist. Without illegal immigrants whole industries would go down, but at the same time there is no net for those immigrants to be taken care of in a humane way.

 

I'm sure most Canadians like to see their immigration laws respected as well.

 

Seeing the law obeyed is a basic tenet of civility.

 

Having the law challenged and reformed is a basic duty of citizenship.

 

 

In other words, if I were a whole lot younger than I am now--and I didn't already have a domestic partner--I wouldn't mind tying the knot with Juan Ramos

 

And here I get lost again... nowhere in the article does Juan Ramos intimates that he is looking for a sponsor or that he is looking for a solution to receive HIS green card. I will have to assume that you are in a very generous way offering him a way out but can't help but thinking that you actually didn't read the article.

 

As for Canada... Oi Vey!

 

Oi, Canada!

 

I hope this post gives clear answers to your questions. Out of habit I will stop engaging in this thread. It has been my experience that after one round of concrete responses things tend to go to pot.

 

I send you and your partner a big hug and my best wishes, and I send Juan Ramos my admiration for his brave participation in the political life in a country that doesn't even see him as a valid member. I wish more actual citizens (of all countries) took their political responsibility as seriously as he does.

[Guest]

This is the case of any child born in the US to illegal immigrant parents, who in their right have citizenship, but who then are torn apart from their families when they are deported to their countries of origin. Then the children are abandoned in the US to be taken care of by friends, far away relatives or the system.

 

 

Seeing the law obeyed is a basic tenet of civility.

 

Having the law challenged and reformed is a basic duty of citizenship.

 

 

Persons born in the US of foreign parents have dual citizenship--that of their parents and the US. If the children are still minors, they are free to return to the parents' country of origin if that's what the parents prefer. Leaving them with trusted relatives in the US is another option. As US citizens, the children can legally sponsor their parents for immigration into this country. There is nothing wrong with working to change unjust laws or with peaceful protest. Quite frankly, I favor immigration reform myself. However, if one breaks the law, one should be prepared to face the consequences. I find it especially offensive when foreigners come uninvited and say "Your laws suck! Screw you! I don't have to follow them." There are many countries whose laws I find highly offensive--such as Saudi Arabia and Iran (and prior to abolishing apartheid, South Africa). My response isn't to go there and deep throat my domestic partner on the front steps of their legislative buildings. My response is to spend my tourist $$ elsewhere. Many Americans don't like the Canadian laws that prohibit most handgun ownership. How would you Canadians like it if a bunch of Americans went to Ottawa shooting handguns in the air? In my opinion, you Canadians have the right to decide through your own legal channels if and how you want to change your laws. When I go to Canada or any other country, I consider myself a guest in the country and respect the local laws and customs. If I cannot accept the laws of the land, I simply don't visit.