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KATRINA - I can't believe it..........


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Guest zipperzone

>"A place to gather and exchange ideas. NO Politics, NO

>Religion, NO War. Please take these topics to the appropriate

>Forum. Thanks!"

>

>What in this description is incomprehensible? Move it to the

>politics forum.

 

Christ - have you nothing better to do with your time?

 

His post is about a national disaster that occured in your country. If you can't understand that you should take the next bus to New Orleans and see for yourself. Why does your little twisted mind think it's about anything other than that?

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>The New Orleans newspaper, the Times-Picayune, did a

>five-part series a few years ago about the dangers presented

>by the possibility of a hurricane. It makes for amazing

>reading:

 

The Bush Administration did an awful job with this, but so did the Louisiana Governor and New Orleans Mayor. The Mayor knew that there would be a lot of people too poor or sick to obey the mandatory evacuation order, and yet he did nothing (such as deploying the city's buses and other vehicles) to help people get out.

 

While major disaster relief is the primary responsibility of the federal government, the state and local governments play an important role, and, here, they all failed. I think people don't want to talk about this because it takes away from the focus on bashing Bush, but anyone who is fair and cares about what happened (rather than scoring political points) would have to admit that nobody performed well and all of that contributed to the horrors.

 

As for the military, the military isn't the Red Cross. The military isn't for rescuing Americans from disasters - they are for defending the country against invaders and fighting enemies in foreign lands. In fact, we have a strong resistance against sending the military into American cities, and with good reason. There are lots and lots of reasons to criticize the Administration (including the fact that FEMA seems to be run by a moronic political hack), but the fact that some of the military is in Iraq isn't one of them.

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>As for the military, the military isn't the Red Cross. The

>military isn't for rescuing Americans from disasters - they

>are for defending the country against invaders and fighting

>enemies in foreign lands. In fact, we have a strong

>resistance against sending the military into American cities,

>and with good reason. There are lots and lots of reasons to

>criticize the Administration (including the fact that FEMA

>seems to be run by a moronic political hack), but the fact

>that some of the military is in Iraq isn't one of them.

>

>

 

You might want to check out:

http://www.defenselink.mil/execsec/adr96/chapt_26.html

 

"The National Guard provides the primary response to state emergencies and natural disasters."

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>"The National Guard provides the primary response to state

>emergencies and natural disasters."

 

The National Guard - yes. The Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines - no.

 

This whole point about Iraq and the Hurricane strikes me as a pretty blatant attempt to exploit this tragedy in order to make anti-war and anti-Bush points. If the War in Iraq is a just and good war, then our military SHOULD be in Iraq, even if they could help with hurricane relief. If the War in Iraq is not a just and good war, then our military should NOT be in Iraq, regardless of the hurricane. The issues are completely separate, but are being blurred by some in order to take advantage of, and to politicize, the emotions surrounding the hurricane and turn those emotions against Bush and the war in Iraq.

 

Do you deny that the state and city governments in Louisiana did a bad job, particularly before the hurricane hit, in evacuating its citizens?

 

I don't know of anyone (other than a few truly crazed extremists would defend the Administration no matter what it did) who denies that the Bush Administration did an awful job with this crisis. But this effort to make it be about Iraq, or to insist that it was nobody's fault except Bush's, is just the standard, tired partisan arguments disguised as concerned for hurricane victims.

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Fortunately, the public generally seems to much fairer than a lot of the comments here suggest. From the ABC News Poll today:

_________________________________________

 

 

Views of Hurricane Response

 

*Federal government adequately prepared? YES: 31% NO: 67%

 

*State/local government adequately prepared? YES: 24 NO: 75

 

*Blame Bush? YES: 44 NO: 55

 

Other evaluations are divided. Forty-six percent of Americans approve of Bush's handling of the crisis, while 47 percent disapprove. That compares poorly with Bush's 91 percent approval rating for his performance in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but it's far from the broad discontent expressed by critics of the initial days of the hurricane response. (It also almost exactly matches Bush's overall job approval rating, 45 percent, in an ABC/Post poll a week ago.)

 

Similarly, 48 percent give a positive rating to the federal government's response overall, compared with 51 percent who rate it negatively — another split view, not a broadly critical one.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1094262&page=1

________________________

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There is plenty of blame to go around, because everyone in charge indulged in that great American delusion: optimism that the worst will never happen because God is on our side. No one, at the local, state or federal level, was willing to spend the money on anything from strengthening the levees to spending public money for evacuating those who couldn't leave on their own, since they would be criticized for wasting it if the hurricane turned out to be not so bad after all. That, however, doesn't excuse the slow response after the damage was done.

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Third goddamned strike, WHEN ARE THEY OUT?

 

>>"The National Guard provides the primary response to state

>>emergencies and natural disasters."

>

>The National Guard - yes. The Army, Navy, Air Force and

>Marines - no.

>

>This whole point about Iraq and the Hurricane strikes me as a

>pretty blatant attempt to exploit this tragedy in order to

>make anti-war and anti-Bush points.

 

Excuse me, you're saying there is NO relation between the massive, irregular, long-term deployment of national guardsmen IN IRAQ and the guard's inability to provide quick and meaningful aid to the gulf coast?

 

That the heavy-lifting helicopters and Army Corps of Engineers personnel that should have been available Monday to try to prevent the levee collapses and thousands of deaths weren't there simply because of FEMA ineptness? Wait a minute, FEMA can't give orders to the Army, though there is a civilian who can: too bad he was still on vacation at the time.

 

BTW, which administration was it that just redid the FEMA bureaucracy and appointed this inept 'political hack'? Couldn't have been Bush's, he doesn't have a proven track record of appointing people to head agencies/etc that the appointees themselves don't seem to think should even exist... oh, wait.

 

By my count this is the third time that the BUSH ADMINISTRATION's ineptness, failure to heed warnings and failure to plan has cost thousands of American lives... "Who could have ever imagined?" should go down in history next to "Prosperity's just around the corner..." as examples of the most inept and out of touch leaders in the history of America.

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RE: Third goddamned strike, WHEN ARE THEY OUT?

 

>Excuse me, you're saying there is NO relation between the

>massive, irregular, long-term deployment of national guardsmen

>IN IRAQ and the guard's inability to provide quick and

>meaningful aid to the gulf coast?

 

No, I'm not saying this. I'm saying that if the war in Iraq is a just war which the U.S. should fight, then we should be there even if it would be helpful to have the military working on the hurricane. Conversely, if the war is not a just war which the U.S. should fight, then we should not be in Iraq, even if there were no hurricanes.

 

The fact that you need people to help with a hurricane is not a reason to refrain from fighting a war that you would otherwise want to fight.

 

>That the heavy-lifting helicopters and Army Corps of Engineers

>personnel that should have been available Monday to try to

>prevent the levee collapses and thousands of deaths weren't

>there simply because of FEMA ineptness?

 

The reality is that there shouldn't have been thousands of people in New Orleans to die. There was a mandatory evacuation order which the Mayor failed to enforce using his local police force, and failed to enable poor and sick people to adhere to by providing bus and other transportation services out of the city.

 

There's no doubt FEMA's awful response contributed to deaths. So, too, did the ineptitude of local officials. If you were really interested in fairly assigning blame, you would talk about this. If you were uninterested in what happened in New Orleans except to the extent it's another pretext for heaping hatred on Bush, you won't talk about this.

 

>BTW, which administration was it that just redid the FEMA

>bureaucracy and appointed this inept 'political hack'?

>Couldn't have been Bush's, he doesn't have a proven track

>record of appointing people to head agencies/etc that the

>appointees themselves don't seem to think should even exist...

> oh, wait.

 

No doubt about it - the Bush Administration bears a huge portion of the blame for what happened, not just because of the political hack it had heading up FEMA but due to a more general neglect of critical governmental services. But Bush didn't cause the hurricane and he didn't set out to kill black people, and it's sure as heck the case that there are lots of state and local government officals who did an awful job - both before the hurricane and after.

 

The problem is, they are Democrats and Bush is a Republican. So Republicans want to blame the Mayor and Governor and Democrats want to blame Bush. It's just another illustration of the depressing blind ideology that plagues our country.

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RE: Third goddamned strike, WHEN ARE THEY OUT?

 

If any organisation is to blame within the federal government for the lack of quick response time, it's not necessarily FEMA, but rather Homeland Security. The Bush Administration wanted all government internal organisations to directly report to Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff including FEMA. This disaster was the first test for Homeland Security and they botched everything up.

 

It should be noted that on a good majority of the Sunday Newsmaker programs, Michael Chertoff was taking intense critisism, especially from the host of " Meet The Press ", Tim Russert and deservedly so. What is kind of shocking the most is that with all the media coverage within the last eight days, Michael Chertoff admitted that as of last Thursday, his staff still had no idea the true extent of the damage in human lives and it's shocking that these guys are running the show and they weren't evening reading meidia publications as well watching the press reports.

 

As of Monday morning, President Bush made his third trip to the region and for some people it's comforting that the President is trying to show compassion and for others they feel that the tragedy should not be a photo op for the President, but rather answers and results that Mr Bush and his team ought to be providing.

 

If anything not to take away from the terrible tragedy of eight days ago, but rather this should be a rude awakening in how the federal government responds to future natural disasters, escpecially a state like California which is earthquake country.

 

Ro

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Zip it zipper

 

"Anyone else thinking that if we weren't so busy looking for WMD in the middle east we would have enough troops to help these poor people"

 

Can't POSSIBLY get more political than that statement.

 

Notice that the thread, and its so predictable responsese are now in the correct forum.

 

If you feel that you just can't live without posting nasty attacks against other posters, then PLEASE there is a site just made for you at http://www.escortspeak.com. You'd be most welcome and fit in beautifully. :7

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Guest zipperzone

RE: Third goddamned strike, WHEN ARE THEY OUT?

 

>The Bush Administration

>wanted all government internal organisations to directly

>report to Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff including

>FEMA. This disaster was the first test for Homeland Security

>and they botched everything up.

 

And who appointed Chertoff to this position? I think the jerks name is Bush!!! Kinda hard to escape criticism when he had the pick of the litter and fucked up (again). What ever happened to "the buck stops here"?

 

>it's shocking that these guys are running the show

>and they weren't evening reading meidia publications as well

>watching the press reports.

 

Why would they look at/listen to the lowly TV reporting that the unwashed masses rely upon. They are so far above that.....

 

>As of Monday morning, President Bush made his third trip to

>the region

 

Third trip? You mean you are counting that fly-by in the most luxurious 747 the world has ever seen as a trip?

 

>and for others they

>feel that the tragedy should not be a photo op for the

>President,

 

Yes it's a photo op of sorts. What it really is is a desperate attempt to deflect the mounting dissatisfaction of the electorate of the job he's not doing.

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Guest zipperzone

RE: Zip it zipper

 

>Notice that the thread, and its so predictable responsese are

>now in the correct forum.

 

Hey - Hawk, old man!

 

You must be soooooo pleased that this topic was moved. Hope you can get some sleep now.

 

>If you feel that you just can't live without posting nasty

>attacks against other posters, then PLEASE there is a site

>just made for you at http://www.escortspeak.com. You'd be most

>welcome and fit in beautifully. :7

 

Nasty attack???? Honey if you think what I posted was a nasty attack then you must have the thinest skin on the planet. And to see a few real examples of nasty attacks - check out the archives under your name, oh master of the pithy tongue!

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There are lots of heroisms being performed by private chariites as well as citizens in trying to help those in need in New Orleans. I wondered in the course of the last week or so as to how many current or former politicians are trying to help out other than Former President Clinton and Bush, who are trying to raise money.

 

Unfortunately not that many, but there is one former politician who operated under the radar last week with helping victims of Hurricane Katrina. Former Vice President Gore helped pay for the evacuation of some 270 evacuees from Charity Hospital in two different flights at an estimated cost of about $50,000 per plane. As I understand it a guy by the name of Larry Flax who is the founder of California Pizza Kitchen may end up fitting the bill for the second flight. I thought considering Mr Gore's finances, he certainly didn't have to do it, but he did and I thought it was a nice little gesture on his part. The former VP has refused to grant interviews and I suppose he has his own reasons for wanting to avoid the spotlight.

 

It's wishful thinking, but I hope more politicians would step up to the plate, maybe open up their personal pocket books and give a little to those in need. It would be nice.

 

Rohale

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I was watching a report on CNN Saturday night just after Larry King had had representatives from the SPCA and the Humane Society on his show reporting on the desperate situation for the many pets and other animals that have been stranded in New Orleans without their owners. At this point in the rescue and recovery mission, the Army is not rescuing animals in their house to house search.

 

I could understand, even though it is hard, that in the early days the rescuers were concentrating on the people. But as the news reported Saturday night, at this point there are not many people who still require rescuing and they are not finding as many bodies as they had previously expected. Many of the homes are now empty except for the pets.

 

Anyway, right after Larry King's report that the SPCA and the Humane Society are doing their best to help these animals (despite the Army refusing to rescue them), I saw a scene where a little black dog came bounding out of a house, his tail wagging, when the door of his house was broken open. The officers gave him a pet, then abandoned him when it was determined there was nobody else inside the house. And then the camera caught the poor dog, left on the porch, lapping at the fetid water which will probably kill him. A really heart-wrenching sight!;(

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