Fin Fang Foom ruminates on life at the gym

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

>By the way, if some you

>haven't noticed, I get a

>thrill out of

>fucking with people's minds

 

 

Boy, now THAT'S a great advertisement for an escort. Just what everyone here wants: an escort who enjoys fucking with your head!

 

FFF

[Justice]

>OK, how did you get that

>red in there? Can you

>do pink?

 

It's actually very easy and yes we can do pink. Although pink doesn't show up as well as some of the darker colors like red and blue. (Note: I've used "bold" so that both the pink and the green show up better.) Click on the HTML Reference at the top right of the screen whenever you create or respond to a message. You have to experiment to figure it out and remember to use the preview function since we can't edit our posts. Have fun!

[Guest ChicagoCorey]

Passing judgement

 

My own feelings about public sex being irrelevant, what is most shocking and upsetting to me about what I've seen in this post is men who "live outside" the mainstream public's idea of sex (not just in their gayness, but in their profession) judging people (more like condeming people) for their behavior using the same moral code created by the mainstream society. You cant' have it both ways, kids.

 

If you don't like gym sex, fine. Don't do it.

 

If you don't like it when it bothers you, fine. They should be more discrete (and almost always are -- some guys, paranoid about ogling, think it's a whole lot worse than it is at many gyms).

 

But there's no need or reason to get on the high horse and tell people that what they enjoy doing is wrong. Live and let live.

 

-------

chicagocorey@yahoo.com

new site and pictures

http://www.geocities.com/chicagocorey

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Passing judgement

 

Right on, Corey

[+ Charlie]

RE: Passing judgement

 

"Public place" is a pretty vague concept. The Ramble in Central Park at night is technically a public place, as were the piers in the West Village in the old days, but it is unlikely that the rare passers-by would be shocked and upset by people having sex there--they might not even be aware of it. The steamroom in a non-gay gym is a very different kind of public place; guys looking to relax after a workout don't expect to encounter men having sex there, and may be justifiably angry at the intrusion into a space intended for a very different purpose.

 

I suspect that those who use the first kind of public space do so out of practical necessity, while those using the second are more likely to be thrilled by the situation rather than desirous of the other person.

[Guest DCescortBOY]

RE: Passing judgement

 

no judgement was intended. i simply inquired if i am the only one left who goes to the gym to work out.

i personally don't care when, where, or why people have sex when i'm not involved.

my post was requesting information, not passing judgement.

[Guest jizzdepapi]

ok. i'll bite (though i try to be careful with a stiff cock). what are these numbers: >9,294,729

 

jizz

[Guest jeffOH]

>

>>I'm the sort of friend who

>>tells my friends the truth.

>>I'm not

>>going to say, "Oh, you poor

>>thing, you got arrested for

>>sex in a

>>public place," when I'm thinking just

>>the opposite. I expect that

>>

>>sort of honesty in return.

>

>So, when you get arrested for

>prostitution, you will expect them

>to tell you "the truth",

>right?

 

Most of my friends are either escorts or have worked in the

business. And yes, my other friends have already told me how

they feel about it. I've bailed friends out of jail who were

arrested for drugs or prostitution and loaned them money for

an attorney. Apparently you don't have friendships based upon this level of honesty. Is it so hard for you to believe that

such relationships actually exist? I don't tell my friends what

they want to hear nor do they tell me what I want to hear. You'd

be surprised at how strong friendships can become when you share

so much in and open and honest manner.

 

As for "fucking with people's minds" being an ADVERTISEMENT of

any sort, let me ask you something, do you see me as JUST

a "whore" or do you see me as a human being entitled to express

my opinions just as everyone else does? I'm not going to muzzle

myself because I'm afraid someone here may not like me and not

want to hire me because of something I've said. I'm a

PROFESSIONAL and if you want to know what I am like at work you

can read my reviews. I have a private life, I can differentiate

Escort Jeff from Civilian Jeff...do you label people as "just this" or "just that", if you do, isn't that being judgmental?

 

Not once in any of my posts have I uttered the word "wrong", nor

have I tried to impose a moral code of any sort on anyone. I've

said I thought it was tacky, inappropriate behavior in a public

setting. I do not speak in a "euphemistic fashion" specifically

to avoid what some have you have tried to read into my other-

wise crystal-clear OPINIONS. Can any of you say that public sex

acts of gay men help us in any way as a whole? I'm not out on

the street corner "plying my wares", which I also find equally

tacky, I conduct my business in PRIVATE.

 

I'm a major proponent of "Live and Let Live", I'm merely

questioning the choices some people make and whether they ever

think about the effects their choices can have on us as a whole.

No one has wanted to have a real discussion on the issue. It's

mostly been, "Fuck 'em" , "Who cares what breeders think?" or

attempts at clever repartee to gloss over the topic.

 

Most of the time I find these forums quite interesting and even

stimulating, but they can also degenerate into personal attacks

and name-calling...something in which I simply refuse to partici-

pate.

 

Jeff4hire@aol.com

[Guest curtenz]

RE: Passing judgement

 

I guess if you live in one of the gay ghettos where there's nothing but gay men there won't be too many people offended by men cruising each other and doing each other in public places. Or maybe there still will be, I don't know. But those of us who live in the real world like to show a little consideration for our neighbors by not doing things that we know are going to gross them (or their kids) out.

 

I have plenty of black friends and I see them wince whenever the media makes a big deal about blacks who are thugs or dealers because they don't like people thinking most blacks behave that way. Think about that for a minute and maybe you'll see why some gay men wince whenever they read about others getting arrested for having sex in parks and public toilets.

[Guest jizzdepapi]

RE: Passing judgement

 

you might have a point but you might ask them about drunken breeders who blatanly harass women on the sidewalks in front of bars or straight boys who roam Greenwich Village with baseball bats in search of vulnerable gays and lesbians?

 

how far does their moral outrage go anyway?

 

jizz

[Guest jizzdepapi]

brucie wonders? PIC

 

brucie wonders, Was that a wince or a wink?

 

http://www.thebluegallery.com/nudesportscelebrities/content/images/nudesportscelebs46.jpg

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: Passing judgement

 

>no judgement was intended. i simply

>inquired if i am the

>only one left who goes

>to the gym to work

>out.

>i personally don't care when, where,

>or why people have sex

>when i'm not involved.

>my post was requesting information, not

>passing judgement.

 

DCescortBoy--you're not the only gay man who goes to the gym just

to workout. Earlier this month I was in DC visiting an ex-boyfriend who's a trainer at RESULTS. He took me on a tour of

the gym...so many FAGS in their cute workout gear, perfectly

coiffed hair, overly-tweezed drag-queen eyebrows standing around

yakking and cruising. Throw up a mirrored ball, dim the lights,

snort some TINA and you're at a bar.

 

Jeff4hire@aol.com

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

>As for "fucking with people's minds"

>being an ADVERTISEMENT of

>any sort, let me ask you

>something, do you see

>me as JUST

>a "whore" or do you see

>me as a human being

>entitled to express

>my opinions just as everyone else

>does?

 

You can say any foolish thing you want, Jeff. You're fully entitled to your opinion. Just like any of us can call you to task for anything we feel is nonsensical that you may say.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that the moment you question someone's opinion, they start accusing you of being (everyone please brace yourself) JUDGMENTAL!!!!

 

sheesh.

 

FFF

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

RE: Passing judgement

 

>Earlier this month I

>was in DC visiting an

>ex-boyfriend who's a trainer at

>RESULTS. He took me on

>a tour of

>the gym...so many FAGS in their

>cute workout gear, perfectly

>coiffed hair, overly-tweezed drag-queen eyebrows standing

>around

>yakking and cruising. Throw up a

>mirrored ball, dim the lights,

>

>snort some TINA and you're at

>a bar.

>

>Jeff4hire@aol.com

 

 

Jeff, would you like to explain to the class what, in your humble opinion, makes a gay man a "FAG"? The tone of your post is awfully harsh, and, frankly, homophobic.

 

Please opine.

 

FFF

[+ Lucky]

RE: Passing judgement

 

Jeff is obviously not for hire for his mind or his manners. I think his fag remark should be affixed to any reviews he might have so his customers know just what he thinks of them.

[Guest jizzdepapi]

Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch...

 

i hadn't thought too much about a date with jeff but...

 

on another thread if i understand correctly, jeff states that he's heading for a career in counseling; often counsels his friends now. i know the NASW (Nat. Assoc. of Social Workers) and i assume other peer-review organizations stress that a social worker must be free of judgement regarding clients. i can see discussions where jeff might tell a client that certain urges or likes were pretty disgusting. and now they include things like how you dress at the gym, whether you talkk with your buddies, etc., etc.--and just to keep things in perspective, i worked my way through college as a male prostitute and that's okay.

 

sounds a lot like laura schlesinger to me. maybe he'd act differntly in a professional setting but sounds to me like jeff has some serious work to do himself.

 

just a thought (and sorry i have no pic to accompany it; i'm sure i'll find one soon though)

 

jizz

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

RE: Passing judgement

 

Jizz, I am just using this as a convenient point to step into this discussion. So don't think these comments are particularly directed at you.

 

I think the underlying problem here is not whether some of us are more judgemental than others, but the willingness of some people to appropriate public space for their own uses without consideration for the feelings of others. This does not limit itself to public sex. It also applies to smokers polluting the air we breathe, industrial pig farms polluting our rivers, guys playing loud boom boxes on subways or, for that matter, people farting loudly in restaurants, whistling in elevators, or displaying bad table manners.

 

I don't have very much patience with this type of "in your face" attitude which is fundamentally disrespectful of others. There is a distinction between public and private space. In private, society shouldn't care what you do (so long as it "doesn't scare the horses" and is mutually consensual). In the public sphere, it behoves us to be respectful of others if we wish to enjoy a modicum of respect ourselves. Most women do not enjoy being leered at by men. Most straight guys do not enjoy being leered at by gays. Most guys in a (non-gay) steambath just want to sweat, and will legitimately resent being made uncomfortable by a couple conspicuously making out in the corner.

 

Now one can legitimately disagree on where the boundary between public and private lies, and on what is a legitimate response to being offended in a public space. But I have to agree with jeffOH's original point. If any of *my* friends came to me whining about being arrested for having sex (gay or straight) in a public place, I wouldn't extend much sympathy either.

 

Esc-Tracker

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

RE: Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch...

 

Jizz, you have just crossed the line from "witty" to "maliciously personal". JeffOH may have gotten carried away with the "FAG" remark but it obviously didn't mean to insult you or anyone else on this list. You might be justified in calling him to order, but in my book ad hominem attacks are way down there with schoolyard taunting in the realm of rational and civilized discourse.

 

It wouldn't normally be any of my business, but when people cross that line, the victim shouldn't be left alone to protest.

 

Esc-Tracker

[Guest jizzdepapi]

RE: Passing judgement

 

the late Craig Rodwell, founder and proprieter of the Oscar Wilde Bookshop, NYC, once told me that some breeders once entered his shop and complained that they couldn't find many straight bars/restuarants/bookstores, etc. in Greenwich Village. his response to them was that there was (at the time) about .02 square miles in NYC in which straight people weren't especially welcome and they should deal with it.

 

in New Haven, we've had a cruising area near Long Island Sound for the past 35 or 45 years. cops have pretty much left everyone alone and straight couples only come by if they are similarly fornicating or smoking a joint in their car. around five years ago, the state cleaned up this areas as a nature preserve so now breeders have invaded our territory. a good friend of mine, who is involved in environmental causes in the area, told me she feels bad anytime she goes to this area and interrupts gay men in whatever they may be doing. she feels that it's one of many parks in the city and should have been left to the gay men who had used it for years.

 

in spite of all the hoopla on this thread, which started out as great fun, i allow myself one glance at a naked man in a locker room and my policy is hands off. but to my dying breath, i will defend any gay man's right to connect with another man at the gym if he so chooses. and if other men become aware of this activity and are offended, i will gladly go with them to the nearest meat-market straight bar and we will work together to stop all of this lewd and lascivious behavior.

 

as for smoking, that's covered in another thread.

 

p.s.: now what about the beat-up gay people?

[Guest Fin Fang Foom]

RE: Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch...

 

JeffOH may have

>gotten carried away with the

>"FAG" remark but it obviously

>didn't mean to insult you

>or anyone else on this

>list.

 

And how do you know that? It wasn't obvious to me, or apparently to some others.

 

Someone doesn't have to be trying to insult to be insulting.

 

FFF

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

RE: Passing judgement

 

>in spite of all the hoopla

>on this thread, which started

>out as great fun,

 

I agree, it was amusing at the begining. It has become remarkably less so since, however.

 

>i allow myself one glance at

>a naked man in a

>locker room and my policy

>is hands off. but to

>my dying breath, i will

>defend any gay man's right

>to connect with another man

>at the gym if he

>so chooses.

 

And what exactly do you mean by "connect"?

 

> and if other

>men become aware of this

>activity and are offended, i

>will gladly go with them

>to the nearest meat-market straight

>bar and we will work

>together to stop all of

>this lewd and lascivious behavior.

 

We are talking public sex here, aren't we? Sorry, but I have never been to a bar (straight or gay) where I saw people having sex in public. Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life. If I did and nothing was done about it, you can rest assured I would stop patronizing that particular bar. And if it got to the point where there was no bar I could go to without having to put up with that kind of scene, I would either give up going to bars or join a movement to have more policing in bars. ;-)

 

>p.s.: now what about the beat-up

>gay people?

 

You have lost me here. I don't see any connection. What are you trying to say: that because gays get bashed they (and straights I guess) should be free to have sex in public in gym steamrooms that don't belong to gay bathhouses?

 

I am not trying to mock you. It's quite possible that something sailed right over my head.

 

Esc-Tracker

[Guest jizzdepapi]

RE: Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch... PIC

 

sorry to disappoint tracker but if somebody holds themselves up as an exemplar in a certain area and then exhibits glaring faults i do hold them responsible.

 

i don't think--and i would apologize for it in a minute if i was wrong--my post was a personal attack, just a somewhat serious observation.

 

p.p.s.: what about the beat-up gay people?

 

now back to the original intent of this thread:

 

FFF: do u think he has too much gel?

 

http://www.thebluegallery.com/superbowl/content/images/superbowl37.jpg

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

RE: Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch... PIC

 

What gel??

 

;-)

[Guest jeffOH]

RE: Passing judgement

 

>Jeff is obviously not for hire

>for his mind or his

>manners. I think his fag

>remark should be affixed to

>any reviews he might have

>so his customers know just

>what he thinks of them.

 

You guys get your panties in a wad much too easily...take a Valium. I hear gay men call each other fag all the time, I've

used it to describe myself. But for you to characterize me as

contemptuous of my clients in any way is nothing but a personal

attack. My clients DO hire me for my mind, my manners, my sensitivity and of course the hot love-making. READ MY REVIEWS!

Do you really think I've just been faking all this with my clients for the past 10 years? You've never met me so you don't

know the high level of respect I have for my clients. So don't

JUDGE me over a word I've used or comments I've made and project

your own brand of negativity onto me!

 

FFF--pull the fangs in--I'm harsh, HUH? How would you charaterize

your comments to Shadow? You've made some assumptions as to my

"tone" that are quite simply, WRONG!

 

Are you guys capable of having a discussion without resorting

to personal attacks?

 

I was describing the atmosphere in this gym which I found to be

pretentious, cruisy and yes, FAGGY, because I choose not to live

my live totally immersed in queerness. These are things I find

to be annoying. I'm stating my opinion, not condemning anyone to

burn in HELL. And PLEASE, don't compare me to that bitch Dr. Laura.

 

Jeff4hire@aol.com

[Guest Esc_Tracker]

RE: Jizz ruminates about Jeff's life on the couch...

 

>Someone doesn't have to be trying

>to insult to be insulting.

 

Granted, but only clearly deliberate or persistent insults *might* justify responding in kind. If you are unhappy about what someone writes, by all means say so. I certainly do and I can be quite severe when someone crosses the line, which is what happened here. JeffOH was (correctly) called to order by others for his remark. What Jizz wrote, however, was just malicious spittle and should be treated accordingly. Usually, he is a witty and entertaining poster, and I am sad and dissappointed to see him stoop so low.

 

Esc-Tracker