Boy the way Glenn Miller played.....

[BewareofNick]

>This post has gotten so off-topic

>that it makes my hair

>hurt.

>

>WAIT!

>

>Maybe I shouldn't have made that

>joke because there are people

>without hair and I should

>be more respectful of that.

>

>

>Or maybe I shouldn't have made

>it because there are people

>who are in pain and

>medical science can't help them

>and by me making a

>joke about pain, I'm not

>being respectful of the real

>pain that they daily endure.

>

>

>I give up. I guess I

>just can't make any more

>jokes.

>

>sigh

 

 

Ah jeezz, will ya stifle yerself, ya dingbat?

 

Seriously guys, the point of humour is to make people laugh. That's why there are jokes about: gays; blacks, hispanics, uptight white folks, Republicans, Democrats; etc, etc.

 

Back in the 70's, an almost cancelled TV show became one of the defining shows of American culture: All in the Family. Archie Bunker was a stereotypical lower middle class white guy with prejudices and foibles. All the stereotypes were there amongst the characters: Edith the Dingbat; Meathead the liberal; Gloria the flower child turned earth mother; George Jefferson, the black man with the newly acquired wealth 'moving on up'; his long suffering wife Weezie and their son Lionel, perhaps the only truly normal character on the show. Heck, even little Joey ended up being gay!

 

This show offended a lot of people and I'm glad it did. It was supposed to. It touched upon subjects that had never ever been broached before, between it and its spinoffs: euthanasia; rape; abortion (on spinoff show Maude); race relations It paved the way for the TV shows to follow. Today, it would never get past the censors. it would be PCed to death.

 

We hear all these groups complaining about how their race/religion/creed, etc is stereotyped: Italians right now are complaining about the Sopranos (I myself am part Italian and I LOVE the show!!) Well, you know what: these stereotypes DO EXIST. They are based on real people. GET OVER IT! Islamic groups complain about how Arabs are always portrayed as terrorists in movies. So? Those of us with a brain or two in our heads know that not all Arabs and/or Muslims are terrorists. We know that not all Muslims are violent people, but yet there's ol Saddam in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Southern Baptists have always been a particularly racist and hateful Christian denomination, but not all Christians are represented by that.

 

We recently had a high school play banned here in metro Atlanta "Of Mice and Men". The 'community' objected to the strong language and the way black folks are portrayed. they said it was offensive.

 

*******************THAT'S THE POINT!!!!*************************

 

It's supposed to offensive. How do we ever learn the lessons of history if we are afraid to confront them? Does the portrayal of Jim in Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer make you upset? Good. IT'S SUPPOSED TO! Yet, oh no, we can't have children reading that 'garbage' because some people are offended by it. When we don't let kids read those books, we are denying them the oppotunity of learning history and then learning FROM it. After reading the book, the kids should be able to discuss why Jim spoke the way he did and was treated the way he was SO THEY LEARN FROM IT! If we hide things like this in the name of political correctness and not wanting to hurt someone's sensibilities, we are doing the wrong thing.

 

So was the joke about screaming like a black lady in church funny? Yes, to some. Was it offensive? Yes, to some. Should we apologize for saying it or laughing at it? No. There was no vile or evil intent in it. It was just a joke. Are we bad people for not genuflecting to the person offended? No. Was there a positive outcome? YES! Ideas were generated and discussed. We cultivated our garden of the mind, as great authors like Voltaire and John Steinbeck and Samuel Clemens wanted us to.

 

Thanks for reading! <stepping off soapbox, folding it up and putting it away>

[guyinsf]

What's ironic about some of the censoring you cite is that MTV airs (and millions of teenagers see and hear) far worse on a daily basis: Not just stereotypied portrayals of people but glorifications of violence, including rape and murder.

 

 

>

>We recently had a high school

>play banned here in metro

>Atlanta "Of Mice and Men".

> The 'community' objected to

>the strong language and the

>way black folks are portrayed.

> they said it was

>offensive.

>

>*******************THAT'S THE POINT!!!!*************************

>

>It's supposed to offensive. How

>do we ever learn the

>lessons of history if we

>are afraid to confront them?

> Does the portrayal of

>Jim in Mark Twain's Huckleberry

>Finn and Tom Sawyer make

>you upset? Good.

>IT'S SUPPOSED TO! Yet,

>oh no, we can't have

>children reading that 'garbage' because

>some people are offended by

>it. When we don't

>let kids read those books,

>we are denying them the

>oppotunity of learning history and

>then learning FROM it.

>After reading the book, the

>kids should be able to

>discuss why Jim spoke the

>way he did and was

>treated the way he was

>SO THEY LEARN FROM IT!

> If we hide things

>like this in the name

>of political correctness and not

>wanting to hurt someone's sensibilities,

>we are doing the wrong

>thing.

[BewareofNick]

>What's ironic about some of the

>censoring you cite is that

>MTV airs (and millions of

>teenagers see and hear) far

>worse on a daily basis:

> Not just stereotypied portrayals

>of people but glorifications of

>violence, including rape and murder.

>

>

>

 

That's right..MTV's Greatest Murders, Rapes and Violence of 2000 hosted by Britney Spears..I remember that! Perhaps you could define your terms and provide specific examples? It's real easy to drop in vague generalizations that sound good when said real fast, but mean very little unless detailed.

[Bilbo]

I have not heard from Shadow in private, so I am not giving away any confidences, even if I am correct. However, after apologizing to him on that other thread, it suddenly occured to me that:

 

1. Shadow might have chosen that name because he/she is Black.

 

2. All of this was done on Mother's Day.

 

3. We are many of us of an age where having our parents transition may be a more common occurance than we realize.

 

It is quite possible that our timing was way unfortunate (and we were not letting up)and we may have said something that would echo a friend's mother on the first Mother's Day since her death. If so, I can certainly see how Shadow didn't feel like talking about it.

[guyinsf]

How about Eminem? Oh, that's right, now that Sir Elton has sung a duet with him, we're supposed to see that all of his hate-filled-lyrics are just an "act" and that he's actually this pro-gay, pro-woman, warm-and-fuzzy kind of guy.

 

>>What's ironic about some of the

>>censoring you cite is that

>>MTV airs (and millions of

>>teenagers see and hear) far

>>worse on a daily basis:

>> Not just stereotypied portrayals

>>of people but glorifications of

>>violence, including rape and murder.

>>

>>

>>

>

>That's right..MTV's Greatest Murders, Rapes and

>Violence of 2000 hosted by

>Britney Spears..I remember that!

>Perhaps you could define your

>terms and provide specific examples?

> It's real easy to

>drop in vague generalizations that

>sound good when said real

>fast, but mean very little

>unless detailed.

[Guest JustANametoPlay]

Words hurt. However, having said that, we have become a nation so afraid of saying something offensive we hardly say anything.

 

I was once berated by a man for using the term "black." I was told how offensive it was and that the term was "African-American." I nodded and said, "Well what do I call blacks that aren't decended from Africa?" In the same vain, I hate when instead of just using the word nigger (which is a word I HATE), people say "The N word" To me it just gives the word more power.

 

What about the saying "It ain't over till the fat lady sings." We seem to have no problem saying that. So I guesse it is OK to make fun of fat people?

 

There was recently a HUGE controversy on the Campus of Brown University (I think it was Brown) where the student newspaper ran an AD from David Horowitz. The ad was about the movement for reparations for slavery. Now while I agree in part with somethings he said and disagree with much of what he said, the point is he should have the right to express it. Some students were so bothered by the ad they actually stole the newspaper from it's places around campus.

 

I despise what Rev. Phelps and his group stand for, yet they have a right to say it. Our response should not be to stifle speech, but rather to combat it with our own speech.

 

I am reminded of a line for the movie An American President. A reporter asks at the morning briefing if the President will ever respond to Bob Rumson's charges that he is a member of the ACLU. At this point the Prez comes into the briefing room and says "Yes he will. For the record, yes, I am a member of the ACLU, but the question Bob is why aren't YOU? As the leader of your part how can you not be a member of a group thats only purpose is to defend the rights in the constitution." At some point the President says something to the effect that Democracy isn't easy, you have to want it bad. Democracy is listening to someone scream at the top of his lungs something that you vehemntly despise yet standing up for his right to say it.

 

OK, long post and a bit rambling but this issues always gets me going!

[guyinsf]

I don't think this is true in the least.

 

>...we have become a

>nation so afraid of saying

>something offensive we hardly say

>anything.

[Guest LAPrada]

Very well said, JustAName...

 

Why is it that ONLY races seem to be so easily offended? What about physical traits (ie/height, weight, physical build, handicaps)??

 

Some people take PC to an extreme... and all it's hurting is Freedom of Expression.

 

As far as Shadow's DRAMA, how do we know he's not some redneck with a hooded mask and matching sheets? For all we know, he may have objected to the term "black lady singing in church" because he's opposed to black people. In any case, if he objects, he should say his peace and let others decide what they will or won't say. He has NO right to tell us what we can, as free thinking individuals, say or can't say.

[Guest EvilSwine]

What's happened is that there are people trying to make the world as bland and as boring as they possibly can. Legislate language, legislate safety, legislate everything. Be inoffensive to everyone.Everyone needs a babysitter. Nyahh...

 

And my contribution to this thread... I was watching Mike Barnicle last Friday and they had a discussion about a private school that had banned Mother's Day celebrations. They didn't consult any of the parents who paid thousands of dollars a year to send their students to this school. All it took was ONE couple to bitch about "alternative" families being "offended" by this "holiday". Apparently a gay couple with an adopted child complained to the administration and then went around bragging about how they got the school to change their policy.

 

The woman supporting the "don't allow Mother's Day" side did everything she could to avoid allowing for the idea that mothers have any importance because that would mean admitting that a family without a mother was "different". THEN, they had some whiner call in who was a TEACHER who complained about how he was "emotionally damaged" by Mother's Day celebrations in school because his mother had died when he was five years old.

 

Next thing you know, we're going to have one-eyed, toe-less, curly-haired midgets claiming that something is offensive to their minority of twelve people so it has to be banned for the other 300 million of us. I'm getting so fucking tired of being told I have to be inoffensive. Fuck people if they get offended.

[BewareofNick]

>How about Eminem? Oh, that's

>right, now that Sir Elton

>has sung a duet with

>him, we're supposed to see

>that all of his hate-filled-lyrics

>are just an "act" and

>that he's actually this pro-gay,

>pro-woman, warm-and-fuzzy kind of guy.

>

 

I happen to like Eminem's music. I don't care for some of the lyrics, but I think songs like "The Real Slim Shady" and "I am" and "Jack" are some really good stuff. Like Elton, I can see past the lyrics. You don't have to like Eminem, but music is not the problem. Poor parenting is the problem.

[BewareofNick]

>What's happened is that there are

>people trying to make the

>world as bland and as

>boring as they possibly can.

>Legislate language, legislate safety, legislate

>everything. Be inoffensive to everyone.Everyone

>needs a babysitter. Nyahh...

>

>And my contribution to this thread...

>I was watching Mike Barnicle

>last Friday and they had

>a discussion about a private

>school that had banned Mother's

>Day celebrations. They didn't consult

>any of the parents who

>paid thousands of dollars a

>year to send their students

>to this school. All it

>took was ONE couple to

>bitch about "alternative" families being

>"offended" by this "holiday". Apparently

>a gay couple with an

>adopted child complained to the

>administration and then went around

>bragging about how they got

>the school to change their

>policy.

>

>The woman supporting the "don't allow

>Mother's Day" side did everything

>she could to avoid allowing

>for the idea that mothers

>have any importance because that

>would mean admitting that a

>family without a mother was

>"different". THEN, they had some

>whiner call in who was

>a TEACHER who complained about

>how he was "emotionally damaged"

>by Mother's Day celebrations in

>school because his mother had

>died when he was five

>years old.

>

>Next thing you know, we're going

>to have one-eyed, toe-less, curly-haired

>midgets claiming that something is

>offensive to their minority of

>twelve people so it has

>to be banned for the

>other 300 million of us.

>I'm getting so fucking tired

>of being told I have

>to be inoffensive. Fuck people

>if they get offended.

 

 

Amen to that brother, Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!

<cues the black church ladies...>

[Guest WetDream]

Silly, nit-picky me...but don't think the characters in "Of Mice and Men" are black (as written). Of course the high school could have cast it with black actors (and why not). But it seems ironic that the play would then be condemned because of the way they talked.

[BewareofNick]

>Silly, nit-picky me...but don't think the

>characters in "Of Mice and

>Men" are black (as written).

> Of course the high

>school could have cast it

>with black actors (and why

>not). But it seems

>ironic that the play would

>then be condemned because of

>the way they talked.

 

 

Well, when you consider that outside the "Fruit Loop" here in Atlanta (the Loop being the area of the city inside I-285) we have such places as Cobb County, represented ably by Bob Barr and noted for a resolution passed by the county commission declaring homosexuality incompatible with life in Cobb, well, is it really THAT surprising?

[Guest EvilSwine]

You can learn a LOT watching shows like "Barnicle" and "Hardball". I love people who condemn books, movies, whatever and then admit they haven't seen them. On Hardball they had some woman who was a congresswoman and an Italian-American who was trying to get a resolution passed in Congress condemning the show The Sopranos because it made Italian-Americans look bad. An Italian-American woman journalist was on and said she didn't mind the show at all and felt that most people don't think ALL Italians are mafiosi and looked at the show as good entertainment. When she asked the congresswoman if she'd ever seen the show, she said "No, but I've heard about it.".

 

THESE are the people turning this country into a vapid, blank hellhole. "I haven't seen the book, but it makes (your ethnic group here) look bad." "I'm not responsible for what I did! I saw an Oliver Stone movie and it made me want to be a 'natural born killer'"... "I don't have time to pay attention to what my kids watch on tv, so we should ban (name of popular program here)".

 

What really almost sent me over the edge is the little old lady who sued McDonald's because she was stupid enough to open and spill some hot coffee on herself in a MOVING car and the trailer trash tramp in Florida who left her little kids alone with matches and a lighter and subsequently they burned down her trailer and she blamed the show "Beavis and Butthead". I don't know about YOU guys, but when I was a little kid, the old bat would have been laughed out of court and the other one would have been in trouble for leaving her kids home alone while she was down the street jaw-jacking with one of her neighbors. Nowadays they get a big cash settlement and our sympathy.

 

One of my dreams is to find the guy who sued the ladder company so they had to put that sticker on the top step saying "DON"T STAND HERE" and ask him to his face if he's really that STUPID.

[Guest bottomboykk]

Preach on, brother EvilSwine, you're preaching some gospel truth! Good post.

[Guest EvilSwine]

Heh heh.....Lord have MERCY! If watching television turned kids into killers, then there would have been millions of us beating on people with wrenches like the Three Stooges or shooting people with guns or dropping anvils on them like Quick Draw McGraw and the Roadrunner. HALLELUJAH!

 

At any rate, I've never called anyone a chink, nigger, or spic and never shot anyone and it's not because I didn't have people around me who had guns or used that language or thought that way, it's because I had people around me who TAUGHT me what to do and what NOT to do.