Changing views

[Guest elwood]

What has been happening on this site recently is more than a little disturbing. I realize I am probably quite naive. I have been visiting this site since last September..... and seeing escorts since then too. At first I took the site more or less at face value and as entertainment. Then I think I started to take it too seriously. I'm not all that computer saavy either. Different screen names, phoney reviews, revealing personal info. I did not realize at first all the hidden agendae,bad history and private feuds that go on here. As for hiring escorts.I have done it mostly when I felt lonely or horny of course. But now I am starting to feel that it is more than just a little dangerous. The first several escorts I met were great.friendly,sexy,honest. I had fun. Then a darker side started showing up. Regardless of reviews. "No-shows" and guys who just took your money and did not return even a good time. I do not use AOL so I did not realize the vast world of guys out there cruising,some of whom are also escorts. I did not realize early enough the clever marketing techniques which suck in gullible people like me. I have encountered some arrogant people who think they are Gods gift to lonely old queers like me.I thought for a while that a good experience with an escort made me feel better about myself.But now I am starting to feel that these experiences may actually be demeaning. When a younger guy hires an escort...it is more like the traditional whore/john relationship.Sex for money. The client is buying a service, but can also get sex without paying. It is a convenience especially for a closeted guy or one who does not live entirely in the "gay community". But past a certain age.the client becomes a tad more pathetic. Combine that with drugs,STD's, secret "bareback" sites.You can't seem to trust anyone and you KNOW these guys don't give a damn about you or what happens to you. I am starting to say to myself....."don't you have anything better to do with your time"?

and the answer is YES. I need to appreciate my real friends more;those who know me and love me for myself. I need to value myself more. I have always tried to treat escorts with respect. I do not look down upon their profession at all. There are some class acts out there.but recent postings here and experiences have started to bother me a lot. Aging is a natural part of life. It has its pangs though. But it DOES happen to all eventually. For me, being viewed as a foolish old ATM is not a good way of dealing with it. So maybe I am starting to come to my senses. There have been some very wise and thoughtful postings on this site and I will surely miss those..but sadly they are a tiny minority. There is so much more to life. Sex needs to be put in proper perspective.It is not worth destroying your pride and self esteem. Ever see "The Blue Angel" or read "Death In Venice"? Excuse me for struggling with these issues publicly here .These words are not meant to hurt anyone.They are really about me. A good thing about this forum (and this aspect is fading) was that it provided a place to put out some feelings or thoughts and get some feedback. I have met some great escorts and will continue to see a few as "regulars" I hope. But no more searching around for them here. No more reviews. I have learned a lot in the last nine months so the time and money was not a total waste. You wouldn't think you could get to be 55 and still so naive. Peace to all here.

[Will]

Dear Elwood, Thank you for your brave remarks. I, too, have found that I really don't have much to contribute to this site anymore, and I am also sad that I feel that way. About a year ago, I could hardly wait to get to this site every morning, because I was sure to be entertained, amused, and even enlightened. I even sent the URL to all my gay-and-smart friends, urging them to log on to a "thinking-gay's" website. In past months, on occasion I have posted when the topic seemed something I might be able to move along; but I've noticed increasingly that serious-minded, heart-felt posts get ignored or trashed. I try to remember that attitudes towards aging -- other people's attitudes as well as my own -- may even be so deeply hard-wired that they're dictated by survival-of-the-fittest genes keyed to keeping evolution up to speed. I'm out of the race, myself, and glad of it. However, I'm still looking for a place where mature gay men can talk about sex without being as nervous around younger gay men as they were, as children, around the bullies. Respectfully, Will

[+ Lucky]

I agree with you. I stopped posting here for awhile, came back a few days ago, and am ready to give up. Why is there so much negativity here?

Now Hooboy has tried to put some controls in place, but in the process we lose the sense of immediacy in our postings. A post may go up hours later, if at all.

Anyway, I regret the bickering, especially when some of the escorts choose to "fight back." Tom Cruise is "fighting back" at allegations that he is gay, and he is ending up with more speculation about him than if he had just ignored it.I would prefer to see the site get back to its original interests.

[Guest andreas]

Elwood,

 

It will be a shame if you no longer submit to this site. Although I have not read all of your posts, judging by this one and the few others I have read, you have been a good contributor and you will be missed.

 

It is a shame that you have had bad experiences with some escorts. Although escorting is a business, a good escort should be able to make you forget about the monetary aspect and focus on the emotional/physical apsects that you require.

 

I agree with you about the increase in negative, if not outright malicious, posts on this board. Unfortunately, there are people who are not happy unless they are causing others grief. These people are usually acting out of jealousy, envy, mental defect or just the realization that they lead miserable existences and are trying to make everybody else as miserable as they are. Luckily, there are enough positive, informative and insightful posts to continue to make this site a service to both escorts and clients.

 

The decision not see new escorts is of course yours. I hope that this descision is based off your own desires and not influenced by the negativity of others. As you pointed out yourself, you have met some truly nice escorts and have had some enjoyable experiences. Hopefully, you will be able to continue do so.

 

-Andreas Mikeals

[link:www.andreasmikeals.com|http://www.andreasmikeals.com]

703.304.2966

[Justice]

Dear Elwood,

 

Please don't let the events of the last few weeks get you down. There are a couple of mentally unbalanced people, who have private disputes with HooBoy, and who have decided to spoil things for the rest of us by making those disputes become public. They're trying to spoil things for the rest of us. Don't let them win. This site was and can be informative, entertaining and a great way for a great group of guys to exchange ideas. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

 

Justice

[Guest albinorat]

>However, I'm still looking for

>a place where mature gay

>men can talk about sex

>without being as nervous around

>younger gay men as they

>were, as children, around the

>bullies. Respectfully, Will

 

How well you put it, Will. I too have enjoyed this site. I take it for what I think it is, entertainment, usually but not always useful "consumer news" (with the caveat that sex is so subjective that one must read all with a grain of salt -- I include myself as a "reviewer" -- and for *hard* information relating to confirming the escort's looks and claims).

 

But I have had some disturbing experiences lately too. An older escort who lives in Chelsea and I have struck up a chatty acquaintance. When he realized who I was from this site he started talking to me frankly. He's not my type and I have never hired him. But he seems a pretty nice guy.

 

Still, the bitterness, loathing of clients and predatory nature that seems built into "escorts" who are more than casual in their activities is upsetting to encounter. He actually showed me some of the private escort lists. I didn't see much, but that escorts go after one another viciously was clear. But it was also evident that many "professional" -- full time -- escorts have built in conflicts about what they are doing.

 

My acquaintance told me he loathed being treated as some "silly little sex whore". And gave me some examples. But I have never treated anyone that way. Yet all the same I don't think I'm hiring the Pope when I make an appointment. I view it as a business deal, which may have some delightful aspects. But I want to have a good time. I'm paying someone who would certainly not have sex with me spontaneously and looking for pleasure. I don't expect to get "interested" in that person, or to "validate" that person beyond treating him respectfully and when it all works being grateful for the empathy on his part that suggests. I show that with a re-hire and good recommendations to friends who have tastes like mine.

 

All the same I have never met an "escort" who offered to give the money back when the experience hadn't gone well or really put himself out if I seemed uncomfortable (but I have paid people their full amount, and suggested pleasantly it wasn't working. And I have never posted a bad review.)

 

In my opinion some of the escorts do act like "little sex whores", greedy ones, who want as much for as little as they can get.

 

Just as there are some nasty or sick guys escorting, I am sure there are nasty and sick clients. But if you are going to "escort" more than incidentally for some occasional extra money, and mainly within a small circle, you are going to encounter all kinds. If you don't have a rock solid self-image, you are going to feel confused about your identity and start to have self-loathing. And as a defense you are going to project that outward.

 

It may be that because I've hired for so long and started so young I have no expectations beyond the basic ones (I may have a good time but it's going to cost me). I don't expect or want to be friends with escorts, I would never do an over night, I restrict myself to an hour unless I've had a great time with somebody and know they'll make every reasonable effort to deliver and I am always polite (sometimes it may well be my fault that it's not a good experience for me).

 

But I have learned in return that even "professional" escorts are erratic, can be dismissive, seem to be acting out personal issues, can be eager to see clients in the nastiest light, are judgmental of themselves and clients. I accept that because I like sex and sometimes can afford to pay for it. But it means I was not surprised by the recent meanness here, and Scott Matthews' defense was disappointing from someone many felt was an exception.

 

I think a lot of us pay to get away from "young queen or Chelsea boy" 'tude and still have some sexual contact with younger men.

 

"Gay culture" has become more and more merciless and more and more vicious about "outsiders" who are gay and that numbers I suspect the large majority of gay men. It is a culture without empathy. But worse it is an idiot culture. All these guys will age. All will loose their looks if aging is viewed as "uglifaction". That is if they live long enough to age. Few have anything to offer but their sexual attributes and when those no longer get them attention let alone money (and how many years down the pike is that really for many of these guys?)what will they have? The culture is a Peter Pan culture and a life denying one (for aging is better than the alternative). It is solely a body-fascist culture with no understanding that there's a lot more to know and love than dick, and ecstasy is not just a drug and doesn't come only froms sex. It leaves too many of these guys poorer not richer no matter how much they've made in their prime years.

 

Elwood, you write like a nice guy who has a great deal to offer. There's nothing wrong with a bargain to have what gets harder to get for all gay men as they pass 40 (or is it 35 now?). Despite what I've said there are good men who escort and are either serious about the business of it, or -- within limits comfortable to them -- are caring and considerate. This site has been and I hope continues to be useful in identifying those people (perhaps it's not a surprise there aren't as many as mythology suggests). So I hope you stick around.

 

And you too Will. I think the only way to fight a trend on a board is to stick to your guns and contribute. Otherwise the idiots win.

 

Al

[Guest LG320126]

To you, Elwood, and to those of you have so far replied to him, a heartfelt "bravo" from me. Like Elwood, my youth is gone (though not in mind), but I do still have needs and have found this forum a good place in which to shop. With the current bickering and infighting that is taking place, I am inclined also to find a new place to shop,or maybe to also go back to my roots and my local friends and family and be thankful for what I have instead of what I don't have.

 

Thank you for this thread and the knowledge that there are still good people here to inform instead of tearing down. I really needed to read something good in here today and now I have.

[Losgatan]

Dear Elwood,

 

Thanks so much for your very thoughtful post. Yes, the bickering of the last few days has been very depressing. But, this message center is a wonderful resource and will survive if we really want it to.

 

You talk of the emotional roller-coaster that you’ve been on since you started hiring escorts. I believe that most of us have been through something similar.

 

My situation is somewhat different from yours. I came out early and have been in the same long-term relationship for almost 40 years. However my BF is 13 years older than I (he celebrates his 75th birthday on May 22) and the sexual component of our relationship has long been absent.

 

For a while, I remained essentially celibate – engaging in just a few encounters a year with street hustlers while traveling on business. However, my libido demanded more and I finally tackled the issue head on with my BF. We agreed that I could seek relief outside the relationship if (1) I never talked about it, and (2) I never brought any of my partners into our home.

 

The liberation I felt is very akin to the emotions you experienced when you started hiring. Suddenly the cookie jar was opened and I wanted to taste every delicious morsel. Along the way, I made every classic mistake. I indulged too much. I fell in love too much. I spent too much. I got hurt too much.

 

It’s only been during the last year or so that I’ve been able to bring things back in balance. Thanks to this board, I met a wonderful escort in San Francisco. To limit the risks, I deliberately chose someone who, though very handsome, is not really my type – but is someone who makes me feel welcomed as a friend. We see each other every other month, enjoy dinner and a show together, and, yes, engage in some very vanilla sex.

 

Most of all, we keep the temperature low and genuinely respect each others’ limits. I contact him only when necessary to schedule appointments and never make demands on him that extend past the time we actually spend together. In short, the relationship has become an important – but not vital – part of my life. And there’s no danger that it will consume either one of us.

 

I write all of this because I now truly believe that client/escort relationships can be beneficial if carefully handled. It’s vital to find someone who’s stable, trustworthy, and genuinely sensitive to your needs. And, praise the Lord, there are some wonderful people reviewed on this site who meet those qualifications.

[Guest blankman]

Elwood, your remarks are like a fresh breeze of sincerity here.

 

Here is what I have to say; I'm going to temporarily cease being the smart-ass bitch that I usually am here.

 

I've come to believe that for me, hiring escorts is really about temporarily buying into the "gay youth culture" that I (and many of my friends) feel so alienated from. If I hire an escort the reason is because I want to believe that that guy has something magical that I don't, and the dimensions along which he can "have" this are so many, not just physical (a nice big dick on a young stud is not the only thing I'm looking for). I can't ever really "get" that magic thing I want, it always eludes me in the end, so maybe I'll keep on hiring, or maybe I'll give up. But sex is just a symbol of this search and this need.

 

A number of posts here talk about age as a reason for feeling excluded and devalued; but there are so many other reasons, such as a decision to remain closeted; being bisexual; being conventionally unattractive; or being in any way different from the norm to such an extent that one feels undesirable. For some people that sense of being undesirable is mostly coming from within or it's been built up by years of feeling "wrong" somehow.

 

Although we are always told that genuine self-esteem can only be generated from within, I'm the first to admit that I find it nearly impossible to achieve this in practice. But at some point all of us must make a decision to value ourselves for reasons private to ourselves, and not within the matrix of values that we are bombarded with by media and by youth culture.

 

An escort cannot be a psychotherapist and cannot make anyone really feel better about himself. It's a rare escort whose abilities extend to "healing" the client in any way. Some of these guys are wise, but many are very young and not very together emotionally, and I might even say, are frequently battered by a profession which can be really harsh and exhausting. They have no formal training for their profession, they don't pass any exams to practice, and yet clients sometimes act like they have to be wonder-workers. At, say, $200 an hour, a typical escort is not charging more than a psychiatrist.

 

If anything it ought to be some of the escorts who look to older clients for guidance.

 

I'm not the least bit surprised that a lot of escorts "go after each other" like vicious dogs. That's gonna be true in any profession where public image is subjective as well as both tremendously important and tremendously fragile. Look at politicians. Look at supermodels and fashion designers. Look at musicians and actors. Jeess, look at academics (now, that is scary!)

 

The New England Puritans believed that old age was a sign of God's favor and an indicator of election to heaven. Old people were considered closer to God. Children and young people were considered comparatively vile, their unfettered natures needing to be broken down and tamed. We live in quite an opposite age, where a 55 year old man can honestly feel that he is considered a "fool" whose only value is as a source of cash.

 

If involvement with escorts merely exacerbates one's feeling of being excluded and undesirable ("demeaning" as you said), the whole thing is not working. But I think everyone can grow from taking a good look at those feelings, and if seeing escorts helps you to understand this, then it's not all bad.

 

By now every thinking person in the gay community realizes what a sick joke it is that gay pride festivals speak of celebrating "our diversity" while almost every instrument of gay culture does precisely the opposite by prescribing certain rigid norms and roles for its members.

 

Personally I don't know if hiring escorts means I've given up on trying to feel good about myself for who I am or whether it's just a "treat" like a big chocolate sundae that I can have every now and then, as some people have suggested here.

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

Elwood, thanks for the poignant statements. Sentiments obviously shared by many here. Someone recently asked where I had gone, as I haven't been posting lately. And while it's true that I've been travelling alot, the more frank response is the loss of fun and thought provocation around here. That's why I would visit the site. Sure, I've gotten some extra business by posting here, but honestly, I've been escorting for more than a few years and had a relatively loyal client base long before there even was an internet, much less this site (which should say something about my maturity for those interested in more than young Chelsea 'tude.) But still I relished the existance of this site for it's immediacy, it's sense of community, and the propensity for wit and wisdom it provided. These things may heve been replaced for the time being with malice, spite, and pettiness, but there is truth in these things. The truth being that many/some escorts are jerks. This sad reality is a harsh pill for many clients to swallow. It certainly disrupts the fantasy aspects of our potential encounters. And it reflects poorly upon all other escorts. The worthy ones. Not wanting to be generalized as a petty and deranged parasite, I've kind of kept clear of this place. I doubt if more than a couple of people even noticed my absence, but elwood, you were one of them, and thanks.

 

>For me, being viewed as a foolish old ATM is not a good way of dealing with it<

 

Maybe a new perspective might help. If you realize that we're all born as fools, then getting older will only make you less foolish. Maybe.

 

>I have met some great escorts and will continue to see a few as "regulars" I hope.<

 

I'm glad you ended with this thought. It says your current condition is not terminal ;-)

 

>I even sent the URL to all my gay-and-smart friends, urging them to log on to a "thinking-gay's" website<

 

I did the same thing, will. Told a dear and intelligent friend about this site, then, after not having been here for a couple of weeks, talked with that friend and he asked me what I thought was so great about a bunch screaming queens. I'm not sure which fued he walked in on, but I suddenly felt ashamed I had recommended he visit.

 

>It is solely a body-fascist culture with no understanding that there's a lot more to know and love than dick, and ecstasy is not just a drug and doesn't come only froms sex. It leaves too many of these guys poorer not richer no matter how much they've made in their prime years<

 

That's the kind of insight I wished I could've steered the above mentioned friend towards.

 

>There's nothing wrong with a bargain to have what gets harder to get for all gay men as they pass 40 (or is it 35 now?)<

 

I think it's actually 30. I'm closer to 40 myself. And I've noticed that the older I get, the older my clients get. I mean first time clients. I'm seeing guys in their fifties and sixties now, and frankly, having the time of my life. Older dudes rock!

 

>Despite what I've said there are good men who escort and are either serious about the business of it, or -- within limits comfortable to them -- are caring and considerate. This site has been and I hope continues to be useful in identifying those people. So I hope you stick around<

 

An uplifting observation. Thanks rat. And elwood, I too hope you stick around.

 

joey ciccone

rentjoey@hotmail.com

[Losgatan]

LAST EDITED ON May-13-01 AT 06:55PM (EST)[p]Joey,

 

I've never met you -- and probably never will since we live on opposite coasts -- but I can sense that you're one of the people here who can make this board truly valuable.

 

Please don't stay away too long in the future. I'm sure we've all got a lot to learn from you.

[NASAguy]

For a welcome change, this has been the first really interesting and thoughtful thread that I have read on this board for a long, long time. Thanks to each and every poster, your words touch this old fool deeply and I find myself concurring in so many of your thoughts.

Today I "celebrated" my 54th birthday. I spent the day by myself, alone, wishing for companionship. I thought maybe an escort who I have spent some time with and who know today was my birthday would have sent an email or e-card. But it didn't happen. Business before "friendship" I guess.

I'll take some of the comments made here to heart. It's the message threads like this one that keep me coming back.

 

Thanks

[Bilbo]

I've been guilty of getting bitchy myself. I think its partly the season. I, too, am happiest when we are talking about points of what might be called philosophy, or maybe some of the educational threads. And I just had the wierdest thought. If we are down because we come here hoping to find threads like we used to have (Although I will neither confirm nor deny that I still occaisionally see some of my old clients - and I agree with Joey that, to paraphrase the song, 'older clients make beautiful lovers', I'm afraid I just got bitchy on another thread mostly because I was still upset because one of them and I had accidently (my fault) gotten locked into my bedroom and it took me 10 minutes - or felt like it - to calm down and figure out how to open the damn door.) Anyway, if we are upset at these jangly threads drowning out the older ones we love, why don't we each go back into the archives and pull up, simply by adding to it, one of our favorite old threads. If we each pull up a different one, surely there will be enough of us to drown out these newer things.

Love, Bilbo (alright, Pollyanna, you go gurl!)

[Guest Joey Ciccone]

LAST EDITED ON May-13-01 AT 08:54PM (EST)[p]>Today I "celebrated" my 54th birthday......I'll take some of the comments made here to heart<

 

Nasaguy, here's wishing you a very heartfelt happy birthday. If I knew, I'd have baked a cake, then we both would've cum, or something like that (how does that song go?)

 

Many returns. JC

 

(and thanks to you el Gato, for your kindness. I'm not sure what you might learn from me, but I'm told it's really fun to watch me strip!)

[Justice]

>Someone recently asked where

>I had gone, as I

>haven't been posting lately. And

>while it's true that I've

>been travelling alot, the more

>frank response is the loss

>of fun and thought provocation

>around here. That's why I

>would visit the site.

 

Joey, please don't stay away. You're posts are always right on target and frequently restore contentious threads to saner levels. Your posts are like a breath of fresh air. ;-) Don't let the negativity get you down. We all need to work together to bring this forum back to what it was!

[HooBoy]

Hey NASA Guy,

 

Your posts have always been a must read for me.

 

Had I known it was your birthday, I would have blown your candle!

 

Happy Birthday!!

 

HooBoy

Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

[Guest Hanover]

Cicero's short essay DE SENECTUTE is well worth a look. It is a meditation on the pleasures of aging, a welcome antidote to our youth-obsessed culture. Apparently, Thomas Jefferson read it once a year in his maturity. It contains much ancient wisdom, particularly on the consolations of mind and soul as the body declines. The former are cummulative, and bear their greatest fruit in old age, unlike the latter. Escorts take heed! As Socrates said, the most "erotic" life is mental, not physical. (A few escorts know this, to the delight of their clients.)

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Elwood,

 

I wanted to respond to you when I first saw your post this AM (I guess now it is officially yesterday AM), but I wanted to give a little thought to it before jumping in. You put a voice to some important issues that have bothered many here. However, I got wrapped up in the festivities of the day... now, much of what I intended to say has been overtaken by excellent posts of several others who made the points better than I would have. So I'll adress two points: this season of discontent and our evolving expectations about the engagement of escorts.

 

We have experienced an usually strong season of discontent recently. This is not new but it seems the worst that I recall since my arrival almost one year ago. (There have been a few other memorable occasions.) I also think we have seen a significant rise in the number of petty posts recently too -- taking people to task for no worthwhile reason, it seemed to me -- speculating about personalities, about motives, etc. with no real knowledge of, or even contact with, the person under discussion. (Sometimes nothing more than: I saw ___. and I think it seems ____ and do you think that this guy is a ____ too.) Not being moved to respond to such posts, my contributions dropped off for about a month. I also noted that several posters I looked forward to reading were not posting either -- not a good sign to me. In this light I figured that the best response was to post to those few worthwhile threads to increase positive participation and try to change the tone of the board -- sometimes light-hearted is good :-). Oh and also respond in a measured way to the occasionally egregious post that shouldn’t be allowed to go unchallenged. If we wish to retain this message board as a meaningful and entertaining forum we need to take proactive (positive) measures to maintain a positive atmosphere. (I view Hoo’s action temporarily placing the boards under moderator control one such measure, albeit unpleasant medicine, to restore a positive atmosphere.)

 

There will always be a few malcontents who seek to disrupt a gathering that seems to be having too much fun, or others who feel aggrieved and seek public acknowledgment for their grievance and ensuing retribution A few people are truly malicious or have a distorted perception of the world and how they fit into it; others for whatever reason, just loose their balance and make some very bad judgments. Whatever the source of discontent, we cannot allow these few to taint ‘our’ forum and drive us away -- which is, after all, their goal. Still others, good people I believe, sometimes engage in the petty post more out of boredom; seeking to generate some exchange when none is really called for. Hopefully these good people with be more thoughtful in the future. So Elwood, please reconsider and hang in with us through this season of discontent... your are one of the guys who make this forum a place for the meaningful and informative exchanges.

 

Elwood, I am not in a position to offer advice to you on engaging escorts. Each of us has our own reasons for what we do and while I suspect we may share several, we probably also have some differences. So any advice from me might totally miss the mark.

 

In my case I have been engaging escorts only over the last year and I have been extremely fortunate in my selection -- only having two less-than-desirable experiences out of many more than I wish to admit to :-). Maybe I’m blessed with good luck but whatever the reason I have met several nice guys, at least when they were in my company -- and in a few cases the word exceptional is not too strong, and I mean as a person not just as an escort. Following your comments and reviews as I have, I know we have some shared acquaintances which are truly worthwhile people to have known. So as you go through this period of reassessment you might reconsider throwing the baby out with the bath water -- take what is good and useful and jettison the rest. And if you should venture into unknown territory, do so with care... always seek reliable references.

 

I suspect that another thing we share is a 'changing view' since we began our escorting experience. In the beginning, for me, the experience was just about sex, compartmentalized from the rest of my life. But I have undergone something if a transformation in the last year, facing some issues I had avoided all of my life, coming out to my family and being totally comfortable with who I am.

 

But my escorting experience is no longer quite so compartmentalized anymore. As this transformation has occurred it has colored my view and practice, rarely seeing a ‘new’ guy, preferring the company of a few regulars that I have become very comfortable with, wishing to share their company way beyond just sex.

 

My ‘escort experience’ landscape has evolved from the stark black and white of shadows and light to a world of grays where the emphasis is much less on the business aspect, at least overtly, and more of a three dimensional relationship (in contrast to the one dimensional sex based relationship), at least for a short period of time. I don’t think this change has made the escort experience any easier for me to handle -- just the opposite probably, hence my choice to narrow the field to the very few I am very comfortable with. But I find it more satisfying to me and worth the additional complexity of the relationship. Maybe that complexity is the attraction.

[Guest regulation]

Elwood, if you are letting the disdain of prostitutes affect your self-esteem, I submit to you that you're taking the whole thing a bit too seriously.

 

There are visitors to this site -- including one or two of the people who posted in this thread -- who make the act of hiring an escort sound like a transforming emotional experience. I think that is exceedingly weird. To me, an escort is someone I pay to perform a service, just like my barber, my tailor and the waiter who brings my lunch when I eat at my club. All I want from any of these guys is that he do what I pay him to do, and if in addition he treats me with a modicum of courtesy and respect I'm quite willing to treat him the same way. I have no idea what any of the escorts I've hired really thinks of me. I don't know what my barber, my tailor or the waiter at my club thinks of me either. Who cares? I just want my sideburns to be even, my soup to be hot and my pants to fit.

 

I don't know what happened to make you think that escorts regard you as a "foolish old ATM." If you keep the bargains that you make with them I don't see that you have any reason to think of yourself as foolish or as an ATM -- you're paying for what you get, after all. You're not sending any of these characters through college or paying for his dental work are you? I hope not. I've had a couple of escorts try to manipulate me into giving them more than was agreed. They very quickly discovered that it wasn't going to work, and in the future they treated me with greater respect.

 

I don't want to make you or anyone think that I regard hiring prostitutes as inconsequential. It does have its risks. To begin with, many if not most are extremely unscrupulous. Prostitution is a business one can't be in for any length of time without telling a lot of lies to a lot of people. And it attracts exactly the sort of person you would expect, knowing that fact. In addition, there are the health risks that you mentioned. And the fact that your time and energy are being diverted from real relationships, relationships that are based on something other than cash. To my way of thinking it's like smoking -- something that should be done, if at all, only in moderation and with caution.

 

So -- be cautious, be realistic and insist on getting value for money. In short, don't be a fan, be a consumer. You won't go far wrong.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>There are visitors to this site

>-- including one or two

>of the people who posted

>in this thread -- who

>make the act of hiring

>an escort sound like a

>transforming emotional experience.

 

Bingo!!

 

What these gentlemen really think of me, I may never know objectively. What is important in the long run is what they helped me to see and understand about myself. And BTW, we are not talking about the act of hiring escorts, but the contributions to my self-view by a few exceptional guys at a time when I wasn't quite sure who I wanted to be and where I was going with it. Not all of us are so well grounded as some when lifestyle changes are adopted rather late in the game.

[NASAguy]

Regulation--

If it was sex only that was the comodity of exchange, I would say you are 100% correct in your assessment. But for many of us, particularly those of us who are older, I think you have missed the mark. What we are seeking with an escort is illusion and fantasy to a great degree. In some ways, an hour or two with a handsome young guy (and someone 35-40 still falls in the definition of young for me)allows us to be young again ourselves, to know again the flush of excitement in sharing the company and attention of the young. That's why I think that sex for us is secondary. We want to enjoy the closeness of someone young and sexy and imagine that we are the ones that are stimulating them in return. Of course, it is illusion and the good escorts know how to create that illusion for us. When you are buying this kind of illusion, moreover, it's very hard not to let your emotions go and after a while believe that you are experiencing true friendship rather just a business relationship with an escort. We stand the risk of being hurt but that is the price you pay and I for one accept that. I know consciously that it is business but I surpress that knowledge when with an escort. To you this probably makes me a fool, but remember that my needs and those of probably a lot of people in my situation are much different than yours. Allow us both to be right.

[Guest LG320126]

>To you this probably makes me

>a fool, but remember that

>my needs and those of

>probably a lot of people

>in my situation are much

>different than yours. Allow

>us both to be right.

>

 

 

 

Dear NASA,

 

Your post was well put and by no means makes you a fool. There are many of us in the same boat so to speak, so you need nobody's permisssion to be right. Thanks for the well thought-out words.

[Guest regulation]

>When you

>are buying this kind of

>illusion, moreover, it's very hard

>not to let your emotions

>go and after a while

>believe that you are experiencing

>true friendship rather just a

>business relationship with an escort.

> We stand the risk

>of being hurt but that

>is the price you pay

>and I for one accept

>that. I know consciously

>that it is business but

>I surpress that knowledge when

>with an escort. To

>you this probably makes me

>a fool, but remember that

>my needs and those of

>probably a lot of people

>in my situation are much

>different than yours. Allow

>us both to be right.

>

 

To me, what you describe makes you a fan. Fans are people who are not content with the performance that an entertainer gives. They want to enjoy having an imaginary relationship with the entertainer, even though in all but the very rarest cases he is someone they can never know other than through his performances. Making such illusions an important part of your life does not create the risk of being hurt, it creates the certainty. It's like skydiving. Each time you do it, your statistical risk of injury increases, until finally it becomes 100%. No offense meant, but you guys need to learn to take reality with nothing added.

[Guest LG320126]

>It's like skydiving. Each time you do it, your statistical risk of injury increases, until finally it becomes 100%.<

 

Yes, but it is better to have skydived and lost than to never have skydived at all.

[+ nycman]

> I don't know what

>my barber, my tailor or

>the waiter at my club

>thinks of me either.

>Who cares? I just

>want my sideburns to be

>even, my soup to be

>hot and my pants to

>fit.

 

Oh my god...I think I'm falling in love with Regulation....help!