"Barebacking" escorts - should it matter?

[Guest DazedBoy]

I've followed this board quite a while, and have never posted until now, because I have a question that I hope can generate a non-inflammatory discussion. Today I read in Aaron Lawrence's column that on many barebacking sites there are escorts that advertise, and in his words "many are HIV positive anyway". I was WEB searching (not specifically looking for anything) and came across a site (barebackcentral.net I think - I was doing a search for amateur videos) that had an "escorts" section and was surprised to see some listings for some of the "regulars" here. Never have I seen them ever state here or in the reviews that they would offer that aspect. I know the saying is "safe-sex always" and "buyer beware", etc..., but would you be less likely to hire a guy who specifically advertises on a page like that? I'm also curious if they would charge extra for that. I'm not a regular hiring type guy, not HIV poz, not trying to specifically bash anybody, but I'm afraid that would be something to make me cross that escort off my list. Thoughts?

[Guest MattAdams]

I made a note of the bareback trend a couple years ago, and this niche market has expanded in two years. Two years ago there were six escorts that advertised bareback.

 

I am also seeing a trend for s&m escorts growing. This is more noticeable in Europe than in the US, but is definitely a growing niche.

 

Quite frankly one of things that appealed to me about Sean and Casey was their S&M side. I really see it as an emerging talent requirement to being an escort.

 

The Internet has not only expanded people's exploration of their sexuality, but we are finding they are exploring their kinkier fantasies and fetishes.

 

Matt Adams

http://www.whatshotnews.com

Author Hustlers, Escorts and Porn Stars

[Guest Traveler]

>I've followed this board quite a

>while, and have never posted

>until now, because I have

>a question that I hope

>can generate a non-inflammatory discussion.

> Today I read in

>Aaron Lawrence's column that on

>many barebacking sites there are

>escorts that advertise, and in

>his words "many are HIV

>positive anyway". I was

>WEB searching (not specifically looking

>for anything) and came across

>a site (barebackcentral.net I think

>- I was doing a

>search for amateur videos) that

>had an "escorts" section and

>was surprised to see some

>listings for some of the

>"regulars" here. Never have

>I seen them ever state

>here or in the reviews

>that they would offer that

>aspect. I know the

>saying is "safe-sex always" and

>"buyer beware", etc..., but would

>you be less likely to

>hire a guy who specifically

>advertises on a page like

>that? I'm also curious if

>they would charge extra for

>that. I'm not a

>regular hiring type guy, not

>HIV poz, not trying to

>specifically bash anybody, but I'm

>afraid that would be something

>to make me cross that

>escort off my list. Thoughts?

 

Well, one always has to assume that anyone one has sex with has HIV. I actually think that many if not most escorts are smart enough to avoid HIV, but to assume that would be nuts. Obviously, any escort who barebacks either is or soon will become infected with HIV. There are two groups of people with HIV who are especially contagious. One is the person who's in the last stages of AIDS. The other is the recently-infected individual. Both of these are teeming with HIV and "red-hot" in terms of being contagious.

Another, intermediately-contagious group is those who don't take antivirals. The least contagious group is those who are well-controlled on antivirals, with undetectable or barely-detectable viral counts (some believe they're hardly contagious at all).

The probelm that I would have with an escort who barebacks is that he has a good likelihood of being in a contagious group. Of course, the most frightening prospect would be hiring him shortly (weeks) after he first becomes infected. At this point, I would suspect that even lower-risk activities such as sucking could be quite risky.

The other things that a willingness to bareback shows could be bad judgment or desperation. I would suspect that these people would be less likely to be taking medication correctly if at all. This also makes them a higher risk. Finally, I think that since barebacking is dangerous even to people who've already been infected with a strain of HIV, those who bareback have more problems than your average HIV-positive person. Just food for thought...

[Rod Hagen]

Forget about HIV for a moment. Consider this: an escort fucks a man without wearing a condom. His dick becomes infected with Chlamidya (or Gonorrhea, or syphilis or all 3). You suck his dick 4 days later, without a condom: you now may have a sexually transmitted disease; which you can also pass on by sucking somebody else off.

 

Or you don't suck his dick without a condom, but you play with his dick. You now may have syphilis on your fingers and perhaps on your tongue if your fingers get close to your mouth. DOOOH!

 

HAGEN

 

 

http://www.rodhagen.com

[Justice]

I just checked out the site that you mentioned and to say that I was shocked and disappointed by at least one of the names that is included on that site would be an understatement.:o x( :-( Like you, I'm NOT going to name names. That wouldn't be kosher. People should check out the site and make their own decisions about hiring.

 

This is the first that I've heard of this particular web site, but I've noticed that there's at least one escort who advertises that he barebacks on the New York section of Rentboys. I admit to thinking different strokes for different folks when I first saw that ad. I became horrified less than thirty seconds after I read the ad. As Rod pointed out -- there's a lot of STD's out there. Some of them are treatable some are not. I can't imagine why anyone would willingly expose themselves (and their loved ones) to someone who did not practice safe sex.

[Guest HQ]

Actually if one looks at the photos on this site they will notice several M4M reviewed escorts using a different name. I have no problem with escorts who want to Bareback, I have a problem with escorts who are not honest about their HIV status. There is no safe sex... all we have is safer sex. Therefore, the people who are not honest are putting their clients at great risk. And I should add that I feel the exact same way about clients who are less than honest with the escort. People A.I.D.S. is reality and the reality is no matter what you think it sadly kills the majority of people who become infected. There is no "politically correct" about this subject... all must use common sense.

[Guest DazedBoy]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-01 AT 00:34AM (EST)[p]What does "S&M" and "fetishes" have to do with barebacking? They aren't usually fatal. HIV isn't a fetish. I agree with whomever posted that the escorts listed on their site should be considered HIV positive, now or soon enough. I'm sorry I'm being politically incorect, or whatever, I'm glad I found that page and wish some of those listed there, who post here an awful lot, would respond. Especially when it's said that "barebacking is a must" to be listed, and I assume the guys sent in their own pics and profiles. I also note that at least 3 of them have some sort of association with Matt Adams, which very much taints my view of anything he has to say about the subject. Caveat emptor, indeed.

[Casteran]

If you don't wish to indulge in these activities then don't, but do not judge those that do right or wrong. Just because someone is listed on barebackcentral.net does not mean they indulge in these activities - disclaimer or no disclaimer - it is just another site for them to advertise on. I have been with one of the escorts from this site and can tell you he does NOT bareback - nor did I want him to I just asked him as I saw his ad on that site, no I will not name names

[Guest DazedBoy]

Seems a strange place to "advertise". I found it by chance, but how can anyone argue that it isn't there for a specific reason. I'm even wondering what it says about an escort who would "advertise" there and then not go through with what is explicitly stated is criteria for being there in the first place.

[jasne]

Consider that in almost all cases, those diseases can be cured! Much thanks to the guy that brought that web-site to everyones' attention; that was real shocker. Thanks man.

[Guest Stephan-Lacoste]

Those who have sex without being protected , are totally blind of what can Happen. STD, whatever you might get , everyone whould be aware of the danger. Myself I was aware and I still got STD a half year ago. thanks god it was curable and it only last for 2 days, but it just means that whoever you go with, there is a danger and everyone should play the game with a maximun of security.

Now escorts who advertise for Barebacks, I have no problems with that. They are being honest at least. I know some of them out there who lied before, lied to me and went to fuck around bareback. This what I can't stand and can't understand.

IT also means that if you go with an escort who adverstise bareback, he might have a great chance of being infected or have a great chance to be infected. So it is your choice and your own risk. About those to doesn't adverstise but still bareback, I would just be really scared because they might have done it before and might be also infected even thought they don't even know it.

Stephan Lacoste

1-310-739-7842

http://www.stephanlacoste.com

http://www.eboysvideo.com

[Guest andreas]

Hey guys,

 

I think this point has to also be mentioned. Just because you see an ad on a site, does not mean the escort himself placed it or that he is even aware that it exists. Our information is on the web and anybody who knows how to right-click and copy and paste can "steal" it.

I personally have come across my pics and information on several sites that I never even knew existed.

I'm not saying this is the case with barebackcentral.com. However, if you want to know what an escort does and does not do, either check out their own site, if they have one, or better yet, ask them.

 

-Andreas Mikeals

[link:www.andreasmikeals.com|http://www.andreasmikeals.com]

PS If anybody knows of any site where it says I bareback, please be kind enough to tell me as I DO NOT and WILL NOT bareback.

[Guest Consultant_online]

>The Internet has not only expanded

>people's exploration of their sexuality,

>but we are finding they

>are exploring their kinkier fantasies

>and fetishes.

>

 

IMHO the desire to try something that one can't get "at home" has always been a driving factor in hiring an escort. The Internet certainly facilitates that, but I don't think it is anything new.

 

Ironically, the medical advances in treating (or at least controlling) HIV seem to have made the disease a lot less frightening. I followed that bareback link quite some distance and found a whole series of similar linked sites and discussion groups on barebacking. There appears to be a growing subculture out there. At first I thought it would consist mainly of older guys (I'm 54) like myself that formed our early sexual preferences at a time when condoms were almost never used. Did any of you ever see someone put on a condom at the baths in the 70's? I doubt it. Much to my amazement, a lot of the people posting or advertising in the bareback discussion areas are in their late teens, twenties, and thirties. The impression I got from my research is that people are now treating HIV and an HIV positive status, as no problem at all - they see HIV as a treatable disease, about as scary to them as gonorhhea or syphillis were to me and my generation. One of the web sites even discussed a concept they called "sero-conversion", by which they mean making the CONSCIOUS choice to become HIV positive and GET IT OVER WITH. Frankly I find that whole mind set absolutely incomprehensible and terrifying.

 

I too saw the list of escorts who advertised on that site, some openly, and some who looked kind of familiar, maybe using other names. What if that escort you were with last night spends his free time baceback-screwing guys who list on one of the bareback groups that they DON"T CARE IF YOU ARE POZ OR NEG?

 

I think this is an alarming trend. I don't equate it with interest in S&M, bondage, or any of the other relatively "safe" fantasies that people go to an escort to try out. Those won't kill you or infect other people.

 

What do some of the other professional escorts think about this topic?

[Guest 7Zach]

A few observations on this issue:

 

Matt just reported the fact that there is a trend of sex workers offering this "full" service, just as there is a growing number of people offering s&m. No judgment, just the statement as a fact.

 

In regards to why people do this, I sorta think one of the following: 1) they like it and don't care; 2) they need to differ themselves in the market for business or to increase their business; 3) low self-esteem, or 4)truly twisted . There was an article in either the New Yorker or Atlantic some months ago re: ageing female pornstars, and it talked of their going from star, to then gang bang to anal, i.e., the work got harder to get. I don't think it applies to the majority of them doing this, but I do think perhaps some.

 

Many people truly believe that hiv is essentially unavoidable, and as such, with the new drugs, similar to living with diabetes. I think they're nuts. But we all make choices on how far we're willing to go to avoid getting it. Hence the fact that I have never seen anyone posting here complementing anyone escort that required a blow job with a condom.

 

I found the most interesting part of this thread the way that no one will say anyone's name that is listed on the site, and yet they tell the site. It was perceived not just shocking, but sad, cuz we felt we had some idea of who that particular escort was, and this was a surprise based on our on-line experience (other than the one that said he knew "for a fact" that the guy didn't bareback. But that particular sex-worker in all of his ads I have seen (and there are several) describes himself as an "uninihited" bottom, or world's best bottom. Note also how "silky" his rear felt in one of the reviews. Perhaps we know why, or perhaps it's just not true, although most of those ads are individually pretty convincing that they will bareback. No one has asked him on these boards because under the so-called ettiquette of dealing with escorts, it is verbotten to even mention this subject. It's weird, and everyone is conflicted on this subject; we're all afraid of hiv, yet we all take some calculated risks; we seem to be judgemental on what we individually deem to be impermissible risks, and yet treat the issue of barebacking as the saying goes, "like the plague", which of course it is.

 

We will never know what anyone else has really done in past practice; I know one guy who was the subject of posts here in the last week who has since quit wanted me to top him sans condom last year, and I was shocked. And he replied, "i guess we shouldn't", which did not instill confidence in me in his safety habits. But I still had sex, which is pretty stupid. I guess I just rely on the basics of avoiding hiv, but more important, have been just lucky, especially since I never did anal back in the pre-hiv days.

 

I suppose I came away from reading the posts on this thread just sad.

[Guest Jason Reardone]

http://www.JasonReardone.cjb.net

 

I have had recent experience with just such a site. I started receiving requests for bareback sex from clients around the globe. My mail box was over-run with just such emails. I responded to none of them and contacted the webmaster for the site in question. I demanded to be taken off of their list however they offered no explanation as to how or why I was on it the list in the begining. I do not routinely practice blatantly risky acts and certainly do not advertise to that degree.

 

I'm furious that I had become a part of such a listing and would likewise like to know if anyone finds me listed as such. There is a level of integrity that I personally enjoy upholding which does not include such socially unacceptable behavior.

 

As far as personal preferences in love making, the choice is of course yours and your partners. I think some of the responses here are redundant to a degree. I do believe it's important for infected persons to be honest, conversely, I truly do not think for one second that anyone that has the means and the desire to hire an escort for the first time (which in itself requires quite a lot of pre-meditated courage and thought) is not aware of the risk.

 

As far as escorts that advertise naughty sex....well we are all adults, to each his own, it's a free country. My sister used to say "Use the brain 'mamma gave you!", it's common sense these days. For some it's a risk for others it's a turn-on, be a resonsible adult, if someone has unprotected sex and becomes infected with anything then both parties are responsible equally.

 

As for these damn websites who are crediting their site with our likeness, perhaps this forum can help to curtail future occurences. -Jason

[Guest Midight Cowboy]

And I found the most interesting part of this thread to be how "shocked" people are at this "revelation." Kinda makes you wonder about all the warm sentiments expressed in the "How Dumb Are We?" thread.

 

Three or four months ago I was accused of being moralistic on the issue of public sex with street hustlers, merely for pointing out that most people would consider that behavior risky. Now, finally, there is something that a seeming majority of posters consider risky -- and, more importantly, something which has made you question the behavior of other gay men. So take that sentiment and project it onto a God-fearing, conservative-leaning, middle-class American from Anytown, USA: That's how the majority of Americans feel about us,

 

Jason Reardon, in post #14, uses the term "socially unacceptable" to describe this behavior. My question is: Whose society? Because in society-at-large, the existence of this website, its purposes, and its topics are socially unacceptable. We wouldn't be having this conversation if we were worried about social acceptability. (Silence=Death)

 

The society created by the gay community? Certainly, it's a socially acceptable topic within those confines. Because we recognize how important it is to talk about it and shed light on it. Yet there haven't been many contributions from most of the escorts advertising on this particular site, or, for that matter, any of the clients who may be listed there.

 

Could that be because it's "socially unacceptable" behavior? Or because it's too personal? Or because of the 'horror' and 'shock' some have expressed? I bet it's all three. There's not much we can do about #2, but #1 we can discuss and debate, hopefully without more of #3. Personally, I have been fucked bareback at least twice that I can remember in the past four years or so by someone I knew to be HIV+, neither time to ejaculation. I'm not sure I'd do it again, though I'm not sure I wouldn't. I don't seek it out, but when it happen(ed) I didn't try to stop it. On other occassions, I have stopped it -- that is, insisted that my partner wear a condomn when he otherwise wouldn't have. Maybe it was because those other occassions were with strangers, and not with someone I knew. Of course, the virus makes no such distinctions. But I felt emboldened, felt like I could take the risk for once (actually, I wanted to take the risk for once) and it was one of the best fucks I've ever had. That was the first time. The second time I just felt stupid. I imagined I was playing Russian roulette -- the compulsion to pull the trigger once can be overwhelmingly seductive, under the right circumstances. Twice, though?

 

Still, that was my glimpse into one aspect of the appeal of barebacking. Consultant_online, it makes perfect sense that the attitude shift of some towards AIDS is among younger people: they're always the rebellious ones. They haven't seen their friends die in epidemic proportions; all they know is they're being forbidden to do something. It's "Reefer Madness" all over again. I don't find the "sero-conversion" mindset you describe incomprehensible at all (though I'd be surprised if it gains much currency) -- for some people, the cure is worse than the disease.

 

And, while I can't speak to the baths of the 70s, when I moved to NYC and started checking out sex clubs in 1980, no, I never did see condoms being used. This, despite the fact that STDs were rampant then as well, and not all of them are or were curable. What does that tell you about the mindset of your contemporaries when it came to sex? And why is it such a big leap from that to understanding how a younger generation is in the process of assimilating AIDS as another STD?

 

So, 7Zach, to your four options I'd like to suggest a fifth: 5) they're sick of letting it run their lives. I think this progression is pretty natural, it just seems to have happened more quickly. AIDS, to me (I'm 39), still means death -- this, despite the fact that my two regular sex partners were infected circa 1981 and 1982. They're the exceptions for me, but for a lot of younger people they're the rule. I don't know, maybe I'm the one who's fucked-up for thinking I was playing Russian roulette when I could've been enjoying another really great fuck.

 

Michael

[Guest EvilSwine]

Besides that, it's not targeting their marketing very well if any escorts who don't bareback are actually the ones putting ads in such places....your responses from a listing you didn't submit prove that...

[Matt_Vancouver]

Ok how many times to we have to go over this?

ASSUME EVERYONE IS POSITIVE!!!!!!

If you are terrified by that prospect, and choose not to engage in sexual activity at all, that is your choice, or you can do as most of us do, and assess your acceptable level of risk, and keep having safe, pleasurable sex.

Just because someone is on a bareback site, does not mean they are positive, nor does an escort who refuses to bareback, mean they are negative.

Educate yourselves on what is considered safe sex, or safer sex to be exact, and decide what falls into your range of acceptable risk.

If you are unsure of how to go about educating yourself, there are tons of usefull web sites that will tell you the FACTS (type HIV or AIDS into a search engine, but be wary, anyone can post something on the internet so not all material will be factual), or you can look in the yellow pages under AIDS, there should in most cities, be a society, or organisation, that will have councilors as well as information on HIV/ AIDS.

And someone above mentioned other STD's, the likelyhood of contracting one of the many out there, is considerably higher than that of contracting HIV. But these others are cureable: ) Another point, just because someone barebacks doesn't put them at any higher level of risk of contracting one of the other STD's, you can catch them orally just as easily.

Whoever equated barebacking with S/M and other fetishes.... YIKES! Yes it can be a niche market to advertise to, in order to increase business, but fetish will not kill you. AIDS will.

matt(public service announcer)

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[Guest Jason Reardone]

It's so refreshing to read such a well thought out response and "midnight", I appreciate your view on the subject. The term used "socially unacceptable" like anything else assumes a thread of relativity and refers to an opined census. I do however agree with your view as well. -Jason

[BewareofNick]

Just checking the site again and I noticed that all the same escorts who were there when this thread was posted are STILL there...

[Justice]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-01 AT 01:41PM (EST)[p]I find it very interesting that none of the escorts who are listed on that site have responded to this thread. I sent an e-mail to one of them. I let him know that I was shocked and disappointed by what I had seen and that I hoped it wasn't true. I advised him about this thread and suggested that he confront the issue head on. He did respond to my e-mail and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. (We don't live in the same city, so the odds of my hiring him a very small. I'm not going to name names. People can go to that site and make their own hiring decisions.) I have no idea how long it takes to remove a listing from a web site. Let's wait a couple of weeks and see what happens.

[BewareofNick]

Actually, justice, one of them did. I sent him a private e-mail when i saw him on the site.

[Justice]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-01 AT 11:34PM (EST)[p]Hi,

 

I too got a private response from the escort that I e-mailed. He disavowed knowledge of the site and I responded that he confront the issue head on by contributing to this thread. I'm surprised that he hasn't done so.

[Guest 7Zach]

In law, silence is an admission. Alternatively, I suppose they're hoping it will die down, and it did. If untrue, then it's unfair, but they've done nothing to dissuade my view.

[mario]

hello guys,

 

Some of my regular clients brought to my attention that I was listed on a

bareback website and confronted me with this issue. They told me about the

discussion in the message center and I feel that I owe a reply. First of

all I am very sorry that I am listed there. It was an error in judgment.

I DO NOT bareback. I was just using the site as another form of

advertisement which I now regret. I get a lot of solicitation for dozens

of websites to include my pics and I never took the time to check out this

site, even though the word "bareback" appears, and yes, I know what that

means. I have asked the webmaster of that site to remove me from there as

soon as possible. This was few days ago and as of today, he has not

yet done so. I will ask him again to remove me.

 

I work with a lot of escorts from Las Vegas and LA in many situations, many

who are reviewed on this site, and they can attest to the fact that I am

never without my condoms. I do not honor requests to bareback. I value

the safety of myself and my clients too much to think of doing that. I am

sincere in what I say and do not plan on barebacking in the future either.

 

 

 

mario-las vegas

http://www.marioroma.com

cell # 702 275 5504