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Guest SeanAndCasey

As some of you may have read on this message board, we have had a couple of no-shows in the past month or so. We did not want to have to divulge the real reason, but as we have had a couple of people bad mouth us, we felt we had to so that our business would not be hurt. Sean's grandfather died suddenly a couple of months ago. This is the grandfather that Sean was very close with. As any of you that have lost a loved one know, this is something that is incredibly difficult to deal with. We wanted to keep this completely personal, not sharing this with any clients, but we felt that we must offer an explanation as to a few of our flaky moments of late. As Sean's partner for nearly 2 years now, his loss has affected me as well. Now that we have returned to Chicago, Sean has let me know that he does not wish to mourn anymore, and that he is going to move on for the sake of himself, us, and our business. We want to apologize to the few people that were affected by our situation. If you wish, you can email your condolences or just post them here. I will be sure that he looks at this column. He does wish to move on and not dwell too much on these last couple of months. We want to say that Sean and Casey are truly professional, and this is all you should expect from us in the future. We apologize for any problems this may have caused any of our clients. We also apologize for not returning some phone calls in the past couple of months. We ask that you guys look at our past record of providing our great service to our clients, and we hope that all of you look us up while you guys are in Chicago.

 

Sincerely,

Casey Wagner

 

http://www.SeanandCasey.com

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Guest elwood

Sean, I am very sorry to hear about your loss. My comments on this message board were not meant to "bad mouth" anyone but to make a point on the topic being addressed.Please accept my sympathies...and as I wrote before...this topic is now closed for me.

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Guest Consultant_online

LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-01 AT 04:02PM (EST)[p]We did not want to have

>to divulge the real reason,

>but as we have had

>a couple of people bad

>mouth us, we felt we

>had to so that our

>business would not be hurt.

 

Sean, you have my deepest condolences on your loss. It is very hard to lose people you were close to. I still greive for and miss my father and mother, although they have been gone for 14 and 25 years respectively.

 

Casey, as someone who has been with you on several wonderful occasions, which I will never forget, I am very disappointed that you view constructive criticism as "bad mouthing." I cannot speak for the other poster who got no-showed by you, but I brought my comments to this forum for several legitimate reasons:

 

1) You could have told me honestly, in advance, that you were going to be out of town BEFORE I drove 3 hours to Chicago - you could have made some excuse if you did not want to reveal the truth at that time.

 

2) When I tried to contact you by phone and e-mail both, I got no initial answer to my inquiries. Your posting today indicates that I was telling nothing less than the absolute truth about the situation. According to your post, you did in fact no-show some people, and you did fail to return some calls. We are in agreement on both those points.

 

3) The purpose of this message center as I understand it is to share among potential clients information about escorts, their services, rates, and their reliability. Providing it is honest reporting, then this kind of post cannot by definition be "bad mouthing." Thank you again HooBoy for providing this forum.

 

Let me repeat that you and Sean have my sincere sympathies on a loss that has obviously affected both of you deeply. I am glad you saw fit to let your clients know what was actually going on during that difficult time, rather than letting us continue to wonder, and in my case, worry about you. Some of us "bad mouthers" really like you a lot, despite the disappointments. I wish you all the best in your future careers. You are right, it is time to move on.

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Guest Kenny

While I was not involved in the "no-shows", etc., I thoroughly agree with the above posting. Loosing a member of the family can be devastating and it is understandable that it affected you very deeply. However, if you didn't wish to disclose the reason for your behaviour, at least you could have responded in some way, such as "we had a death in the family" or something even more vague, but at least acknowledging your failure to communicate.

At least you recognize your error and you are to be commended for apologizing to the clients. Again, sincere condolenses on your loss and and your courage in admiting it. This, I think, should put you back into clients' good graces.

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Guest shadow

LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-01 AT 06:23PM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-01 AT 06:21 PM (EST)

 

>Let me repeat that you and

>Sean have my sincere sympathies

>on a loss that has

>obviously affected both of you

>deeply. I am glad

>you saw fit to let

>your clients know what was

>actually going on during that

>difficult time, rather than letting

>us continue to wonder, and

>in my case, worry about

>you. Some of us

>"bad mouthers" really like you

>a lot, despite the disappointments.

> I wish you all

>the best in your future

>careers. You are right,

>it is time to move

>on.

 

I agee with the above post.

 

Sean and Casey are professionals, great at what they do. I've been ready to defend them in previous posts, but I also understand the frustration that people feel on having a no-show with an escort. I could had attacked those who posted their messages where they described their frustrations (Especially since I'm a huge fan of you two), but I decided to acknowledge that the feelings of frustration existed. My intent was to encourage those posters to go ahead and use this forum to vent their feelings but still recognize that no-shows are the exceptions rather than the rule when it comes to Sean and Casey. What better place to vent than here. Anger and frustration are real human feelings that need to be recognized. I've learned that from years of repressing my emotions. (I should have been this specific in my previous posts to guard against misinterpretation).

 

I do hope, however, that none of my comments to posts where Sean and Casey were referenced in a negative way were interpreted as my way of labeling Sean and Casey as horrible people. If that was how any of my posts were interpreted, I apologize. My intent has been to show that Sean and Casey are great escorts who are also human beings and therefore capable of mistakes. No one is perfect but if I had to make a list of people who have tried to reach perfection in terms of escorting then Sean and Casey would definitely be near the top of that list. They have been very professional at what they do and because of their great record they should not be totally condemned for making a mistake every once in a while.

 

However, my message to those who happen to be the victim on one of those VERY rare occassions that Sean and Casey make a mistake, is that it is ok to feel anger and frustration. Don't feel guilty about those feelings. Acknowledge it, deal with it, and let it past.

 

My heart goes out to Sean for his situation (I know that I sound cheesy but I mean what I say. If I could think of a way of sounding less cheesy, then I would).

 

Sean and Casey are great at what they do.

 

Sean and Casey are also human beings so its possible for them to make mistakes from time to time. I know that I definitely do. It doesn't mean that you're a bad person. In this case Sean and Casey definitely had a very good reason for their mistakes, but you don't really need a good reason for making a mistake.

 

(I also acknowledge that "mistake" may not be the most suitable word, but its the best word that I can come up with currently. If anyone can come up with a more sutiable word, then feel free to use it)

 

Finally, as always, I give thanks to Hooboy for creating this site.

 

Well, that was my two cents.

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Guest Consultant_online

I could not have put any of that better, myself - well said!

 

> My intent has been

>to show that Sean and

>Casey are great escorts who

>are also human beings and

>therefore capable of mistakes. No

>one is perfect but if

>I had to make a

>list of people who have

>tried to reach perfection in

>terms of escorting then Sean

>and Casey would definitely be

>near the top of that

>list. They have been very

>professional at what they do

>and because of their great

>record they should not be

>totally condemned for making a

>mistake every once in a

>while.

 

To condemn them was certainly never my intention - I think "gentle chastisement" would be closer to what I was trying for. Sometimes I am guilty of verbal overkill, if I got out of line, I apologize. I had a wonderful time with them on two occasions, and would be happy to go back if they would have me.

 

>

>However, my message to those who

>happen to be the victim

>on one of those VERY

>rare occassions that Sean and

>Casey do make a mistake,

>then it is ok to

>feel some anger and frustration.

>Don't feel guilty. Acknowledge it,

>deal with it, and let

>it past.

>

 

Again, I could not have said it any better - they made a mistake, owned up to it honestly, and want to move on. They had a shattering event in their lives, and, no surprise, they are human and were upset by it. I was pretty pissed off, yes, but mainly because they are very good at what they do, and I was disappointed that I would not get to be with them. Selfish? Maybe, but none of us knew what had happened to them. I am over being angry now. The frustrated part of me I KNOW they could help with. I sent them a personal e-mail of condolence and only wish them the best in all things. I think they have a great future.

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Guest MattAdams

I have never met Sean and Casey, but there are a lot of things I like about them. One of those things is their professionalism. They have a lot of respect from clients and their peers.

 

I know that there are a lot of times that thing need to be dropped to attend to other matters and there can sometimes be some insensitivity when there are more pressing matters in someone's life.

 

I don't think flaking is typically in their character since they are both very much businessmen and good at what they do.

 

Matt Adams

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Guest bigjake80

All I can say about this post is that I cant beleive that it would even come to this. There is no reason that you should have even felt compelled to share such intimate info about your life in order to protect your business. Do these guys really believe that you are supposed to be at their beckoned call 24 hours a day? Like we have nothing better to do than follow up on the 50-100+ calls that we get every day. You want to talk about flakey, try having to deal with talking to 10 people in one hour, each of them "just checking around" and finishing off the phone call with some stupid passive aggresive statement like "Let me think about it." Think about what? Just say its not what you are looking for. Or better yet, try dealing with some pushy asshole looking for something RIGHT NOW and you are not available.After giving you the third degree about what else you could possibly be doing other than seeing them, they tell you that the time that you do have open is not good. Then, they call at the last minute once again to find out if the time that you offered before is still open. When you tell them no, they actually get pissed off. Its almost like the clients beleive that we are just waiting for them to call, like they are the only person that we are going to see all day. Ive got a secret for you guys, no matter what an escort tells you, if they live in a city like New York and they are actually any good they are actually seeing anywhere from 3-6 clients a day. So the next time you dont get a call back, GET OVER IT. You are allowed to choose when and what escort you want, the boys will choose what phone calls they can return and what clients they will see. They will decide what works best for them, not you or the threat of a stupid review. You want good customer service, then be good customers. Be patient. PLAN AHEAD. Be forthright and honest about what you need. And most of all, dont be so damn sensitive to every motion or tone that as escort makes. We do have lives outside of your sexual needs.

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-01 AT 06:13AM (EST)[p]I agree -- escorts are real people, with real feelings and with real lives outside of what they do for a living. I'm sure that there are many thing about being an escort that can't be easy, but you should have checked all of your facts before responding to this post. Sean and Casey were not explaining why they didn't call people back, they were explaining why they failed to keep scheduled appointments. They didn't have to go into as much detail as they did -- they are entitled to they privacy. However, given the circumstances -- they should have sent some sort of an explanation to any client who sent an e-mail asking for an explanation as to why they failed to keep a scheduled appointment.

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Guest bigjake80

You are right. To be honest with you, there is absolutely no reason that an escort should be a no show, regardless of personal circumstance. I was commenting more on the people who were pissed that they didnt get a return call. Actually, I have come to the end of my time in the business. March 30 is my last day of work doing sensual massage. I am leaving New York, reactivating my licence and going legit. My last post was more about me blowing off 7 years of steam.

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>Actually, I have come

>to the end of my

>time in the business. March

>30 is my last day

>of work doing sensual massage.

>I am leaving New York,

>reactivating my licence and going

>legit.

 

Good for you! Good luck and much success in your new city.

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Guest Kenny

Gee, after reading Big Jake's posting here (the first one), it just made me want to contact him to set up an appointment. It sounded like he would be the perfect escort...showing such compassion for the customer. I've been fortunate to have received a massage from him (and enjoyed it). I also defended him on his thread (the most popular one on the "Massages" forum. I now know how he really feels about clients. He is entitled to vent his fustrations BUT he chose his profession and chose to deal with all the grief that comes with it. Apparently now that he no longer will be earning money from these assholes who question him on his services he can tell them what he thinks of them. Makes you wonder if all escorts feel like he does about their clients.

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Guest bigjake80

LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-01 AT 02:23PM (EST)[p]Oh Kenny calm down. I wasnt referring to every person that I have encountered, or even a fraction of them. In fact nearly all of the people that I am talking about never really had an interest in hiring in the first place. They were just yanking my chain and wasting my time. I am saying that its not always easy to deal with every single person and circumstance that is thrown your way, and then have something like not being able to return a phone call played out as a major fault on this message board. Trust me, Ive gotten a fair share of info about what the clients think about the working boys on this board that isnt always pretty. And you are right, I am saying what I feel because I dont need to bite my tounge any longer. Isnt that what this forum is for, speaking our minds. Or perhaps its just for the clients to speak theirs. After all, we are the ones getting paid, right? I suppose we don't deserve the same respect that you would give a doctor or haircutter when it comes to making an appointment. Inappropriate behavior is inappropriate behavior, no matter what you are getting paid or what it is that you do. You are a nice guy, but we deal with a lot of people that are not always so nice. You couldn't even possibly understand some of the stuff we deal with, and I doubt you would believe some of it if I told you. We get payed well, but that does not mean that we are supposed to put up with whatever BS is thrown our way. No amount of money would be worth some of the crap I have dealt with in the last 7 years. I have just gotten a little tired of reading the clients point of view about thow they are feeling dissed for doing something stupid like traveling all the way to a city to see an escort that they dont even have an appointment with, and being mad becasue they are not available. Or at the guy that called my house 70 TIMES last weekend (I counted on my caller ID) and got more and more psychotic as the messages went on because I didnt call him back. Never mind that it was Sunday, and it is clearly posted on my web page that I dont work Sunday. The last phone call was him screaming that HE WAS GOING TO HAVE ME BUSTED. That was the moment that I decided that I was through with the sex business. We deal with shit that would make your skin crawl. Imagine waking up in the morning to find a number of messages from some freak masturbating to your photo from the night before. Imagine having client after client hang up on you as soon as you say soemthing that they dont want to hear, like that you are a top or a bottom (whatever it was that didnt fit their preference). How hard would it be for a client to say "Im sorry, its not what Im looking for, but thanks for your time, I appreciate it," rather than hanging up on you in mid-sentence. Trust me, as rude as an escort can be, we deal with that from clients times 10. Soemtimes the truth hurts, and though you may never hear this from another escort, it still happens to them. They are not going to tell you because they know what side their bread is buttered and it behoves them to keep their fool mouths shut. Ive had the honor of having some really really wonderful people on my table, and I will keep those memories. But I am releasing my self from the ugly memories by talking about them.

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Guest Kenny

W O A H W O A H.

 

Jake, I apologize for upsetting you. Take 2 aspirins and go to bed. You'll feel better in the morning.

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Jake, as one of the few retirees who regularly post here, may I ask you to keep paying attention to this board for at least a little while. You are in a position now to say things that the ones who are still working can't, as has been pointed out, and that is a very valuable thing on this board. A liaison between the two sides.

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I know what it's like to lose a close family member; so I can certainly sympathize with Sean. However, I'm going to go on a limb here and admit that this just doesn't smell quite right. It's not that I think he's not telling the truth about his Grandfather dying, but rather this is the reason for the unprofessional conduct.

 

I have a feeling that this explanation is actually damage control for unprofessional conduct that may have started having a negative impact on their business? Let's face it: Both Sean and Casey are very, very young, and with most guys their age, have a lot of growing up to do.

 

Yes, I am cynical. And yes, I'll probably get blasted (flamed is the word I guess) for daring to criticize them especially under these circumstances. But I guess that's what bothers me. The explanation is just too convenient and is the type of explanation that makes anyone who should attempt to question it appear insensitive or mean. But that is honestly not my intention.

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I agree (for the most part) in what AIM noted above. I believe that Sean's relation died and that is tragic. Yet using this as an excuse for poor service and missing appointments feels more like spin control than reality. The excuse doesn't change the fact that they acted unprofessionally for a longer than normal duration... then posted the one reason that makes it hard to question how sincere they are being. With that said I have used both guy's services (and posted reviews on each). If I were in their area again I now would think twice before I made the call to hire them. There are several other exceptional escorts in the Chicago area that I would contact first.

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Guest shadow

This is what I meant when I made the below statement in my post:

 

"In this case Sean and Casey definitely had a very good reason for their mistakes, but you don't really need a good reason for making a mistake."

 

focus in on this part,"...but you don't really need a good reason for making a mistake."

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Guest shadow

Hey Big Jake,

 

you might want to check out my "Ever have one of those times..." post. It might give you an idea about one of the reasons why a client might turn to the "calling around for escorts" technique that you mentioned. I have to admit that I've done that, but it was in sort of extreme cases like the one I mentioned in that post.

 

Also, i think that what you wrote was very useful. I sent a copy of it to Jamie, a young escort in the Boston area. I haven't put his review up yet, but I will soon. He was great! He told me that he could relate to what you wrote.

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Guest SeanAndCasey

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-01 AT 11:45PM (EST)[p]Hello All,

 

I'm sorry I have not posted anything on this subject, but it has been very hard for past two months. I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. This will be our last post on this subject, its time for me to move on.

I was very close to my grandfather, more so than my parents. They did not accept the fact that I am attracted to men. My grandfather understood. I rarely talk with my parents; I'm talking maybe two calls a year. He was the one I could talk to. Although he thought I was a successful web designer, we still had a close relationship. Although I have been growing little shrub on my face for the past five years, he was the one who taught me how to shave. He was the fatherly figure in my life.

 

Now to comment on a recent post:

 

<The excuse doesn't change the fact that they acted unprofessionally for a longer than normal duration... then posted the one reason that makes it hard to question how sincere they are being. With that said I have used both guy's services and posted reviews on each. If I were in their area again I now would think twice before I made the call to hire them. There are several other exceptional escorts in the Chicago area that I would contact first. >

 

You are saying you have met with me. Then it hurts and offends me that you would question "how sincere I am being".

 

As for the longer in normal duration, I do apologize to all of my clients, potential clients and to Casey. Everyone who has lost someone very dear to him or her knows what it is like. It WAS hard on our relationship, which made the situation last longer. We have been doing great for the past couple of weeks now (for those that may be concerned). Business is back to usual.

 

Elwood, I think Casey put it wrong when he wrote "bad mouth". I accept your sympathies and hope we can fix things in the future.

 

Consultant_online, Your an awesome guy and I’m sorry that this happened to you at the beginning of our "relationship". I correct Casey on the "bad mouthing" thing. It was definitely not the word to use. We clicked so well the first two visits, I was hoping you would be a regular. I hope we can contact each other personally and fix things soon.

 

And to everyone else please accept my deepest apologies. I hope this has shed light on my past couple of months. I have been over this for a while now, thought this message has got me thinking of him again. May he rest in peace.

 

I want to end this by thanking elwood, Consultant_online, Kenny, shadow, MattAdams, and Like2Hire for their sympathies and/or support on this message board. It had been hard to speak on this subject until now, and its good to know I have people out there who support me (and Casey). Thank you guys.

 

Sean Armstrong

 

http://www.seanandcasey.com

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Guest Tampa Yankee

BigJake,

 

>...but we deal

>with a lot of people

>that are not always so

>nice. You couldn't even possibly

>understand some of the stuff

>we deal with, and I

>doubt you would believe some

>of it if I told

>you.

 

You are right, we can't possibly understand. I have gotten glimpses from some of my escort friends into the darker side of the business -- an eye opener for me, let me tell you. And I'm sure that hearing about it is only a faint picture of the reality. We clients just don't have the visibility into the unpleasant aspects of the business -- that is unless we are one of the troublesome types. And I doubt they really appreciate the impact of their actions because the see themselves as isolated individuals, not recognizing or caring that they may be one of many -- one of their problems certainly.

 

I am under no misconception that I would have the attitude and personality to be a successful escort over the short term much less the longer term. I am convinced that it takes a special kind of person (in the positive sense) to be successful and to put up over the long term with the various aspects of the business, both good and bad. I'm also concerned that even for the successfull guys like yourself, the business takes a toll that long outlives their careers.

 

We get payed well,

>but that does not mean

>that we are supposed to

>put up with whatever BS

>is thrown our way. No

>amount of money would be

>worth some of the crap

>I have dealt with in

>the last 7 years.

 

And while you do get paid well, money doesn't justify certain treatment or even make it tolerable.

 

I hope you continue to post 'views from the other side' now that you are in a position to make your views public. It's important to the dialog to have the perspectives of both sides.

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I believe the horse can now be declared offically dead (unless someone would like to form a committee to explore the possibility of it NOT being dead)......

 

Thank you, Sean and Casey, for sharing with us when you didn't have to.

 

Guys, these are two basically good guys who DON'T rip off their clients. Let's focus on the guys who do rip off their clients (like Anthony Holloway or OrlandoMassage4u)

“On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the Eleventh, when no living creature may speak falsely or fail to give answer, a question will be asked. A question that must never, ever be answered: Doctor.....WHO?????"

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Guest elwood

Sean,

Your posting on this topic was very moving. I respect and admire both you and Casey for your actions regarding this issue. As I have said...it is now forgotten as far as I am concerned. You have both proven your maturity and professionalism and I wish you nothing but success and I would not hesitate an instant in meeting with both of you if the opportunity ecver arises.

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