2001-lets make a difference

[Guest lets_care]

when i read the message about retirement homes for older escorts my first reaction was to laugh...but the more i thought about it the more serious thought i gave to it...what will happen to all the escorts you gentlemen write about when they are too old to escort anymore...how do we give back to those who have brought happiness and joy to so many of us when we probably needed it the most...would setting up a fund be such an unselfish act..it may sound strange to mention such a contribution but think about it..i did..so the reason for my message to all of you..

as the new year approached i began to think about what i wanted to be different about this year..how could i make a difference..i often read through these messages that are being posted and i do admit i find many of them quite entertaining but there is a side that many of us have probably never given any thought too..about a month ago i was on business in a major east coast city (unamed) visiting a well known hustler bar (unamed)met a very attractive guy and after some meaningless conversation followed his lead and took him back to my hotel room for a negotiated price..as i lay there preforming oral sex on him i looked up and saw the face of a person who had his eyes closed and probably was a million miles away..dreaming about anything that could make hime forget what he was doing..for me it was an eye opening experience..it was not that i am not attractive, well built, intelligent but that i was the only one enjoying this experience and was making someone preform an intimate act solely for the sake of money..many of you will say well he knew what he was doing and by taking the money or agreeing to the terms make the decision to do so..but this is not true..how many of us have ever tried to get to know the guy we hire..at this bar there are alot of these guys all mostly straight who come from foreign countries where life lets say is not as good as we have it here in the united states..many of them are supporting families and come here with the dream that life will be better..where else can you make 2-3 hundred dollars an hour..i sent the gentleman on his way with double the money he requested and told him to send some holiday gifts home to his family with the extra..the next night i went back to the same bar..saw the same guy..he was elated to see me..told me he was available again..i said fine..i will pay you your fee but we wont go to bed..i will take you to dinner and then to a movie..he looked at me with a strange look but almost seemed relieved..we went to dinner and he told me about his life..his son..his parents who he supports and how much he hates doing what he does but continues for the money..how so many of his friends followed him here with many of the same problems and hopes of making lots of money to hopefully return to their country one day to live a better life..but that day will never come..they relocate to one of the most expensive cities in the usa..spend most of their money on rent, the gym, food and clothing..many of them become severely depressed after a short period of time..it is very sad when you look into their eyes..there is no hope of school or a work visa as how can you go to school when your out hustleing until 4 or 5am 5 to 6 nights a week..the next night i went back again to the bar..there he was with five of his friends..but this time i was prepared to make a small difference..i asked him how much he makes in a night..he told me usually 4 - 6 hundred..based on it being a midweek night i gave each of his friends and himself 400 dollars and told them they could keep it if the all went home or went out and did something that they wanted to do..but no turning tricks..talk about the fourth of july..i never saw such happy people..the look of relief that there was one night that the pressure was off to preform..what makes me angry is that this bar allows these guys to do this knowingly..they obviously are making a profit off of them..patrons are not coming to the bar just for the liquor yet the owner/owners does not contribute anything back...same thing with a popular strip club located in the very same city..they allow all these guys who are either here illegaly or do not have the proper papers to work strip collect tip money get paid i assume under the table and hustle customers in a room they refer to as the lounge..would it be so bad to maybe help these guys in return get an education or teach them something they may help them 10 years from now..this is a never ending circle..they all tell there friends come see how easy it is to make money..all you have to do is close your eyes and pretend..it gets easier everytime..but it never does..there are plenty of ecorts who can make a choice..who have the ability to work a normal job but choose not to..that is their choice..but lets stop exploiting those who have no choice..lets show them that the usa is a place of opportunity based on decisions that include education and hard work..many of those who hire these guys have the means to help make a difference..imagine if only half the guys who visit this site contributed what they would dish out for an hour of pleasure how many we could send to a school or teach a trade or take out of the bar for one week..many of us who are well connected teach them to get phoney social security numbers..push through bank accounts..drivers liscences etc..but have never taken the time to help them get into a school or take them to a show movie or museum without expecting some sort of gratification in return..lets not make it easy for these guys..hire those who have a choice not those who think this is the only choice..i would like to hear from those who would be interested in setting up a fund for those guys who want an alternative..lets try to think past our own personal gratification and try to give back some of which we are so lucky to have..i am determined and committed and before you pay the next cover or admission charge think about where that money is really going..who is it really helping..i am not down on escorts or escorting..i am just concerned about those who really need our help..and lets not laugh about a home for retired escorts..remember we need to take care of those who have been there for us when they will need us the most..although you and i cant change the problems of the world we can make a difference even if its just for one person for one night..we talk about escorts by the way they look or preform or by penis size..lets remember to show them the same respect and compassion we as human beings want to be shown..i wish all of you a happy new year..thanks for reading..i look foward to hearing from you..i hope there are others who will join me if not i will try to do it alone..this is my resolution for 2001..peace to all

[MiamiLooker]

keep your eyes closed when sucking dick

[Guest LATINLUVR]

hey man its your kind of attitude that gives many of us a bad name. my motto if you have nothing nice to say keep your thoughts to yourself. give the guy a break. i have felt the sameway many a times. it cant always just be about us. what if these guys were our sons, brothers, cousins, would we feel any different. keeping our eyes closed only makes us one thing- blind to the situation. you do your thing and live with yourself but let him do his thing.

[Rod Hagen]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-01 AT 08:59AM (EST)[p]What an excellent post. Jesus.

 

In truth I have had only one client take an active interest in my future well-being. From day one RD has taken steps to help me provide for myself "later on". Curious nobody else has offered. I suppose in my case, and perhaps where other escorts are concerned, I seem intelligenent enough to "figure it out" later. Or maybe they think My future is My responsibility. Fair enough, but the next time someone wants to pay me a lot of cash, maybe I should ask for a few shares of IBM too. :-)

 

Thanks for this compelling post. And once again, thanks RD.

 

http://www.rodhagen.com

[Guest LATINLUVR]

rod:

finally a man with class. i assume you enjoy what you do. can you imagine though hating it but doing it day in and day out just to survive. no less in a foreign country. thousand of miles away from your friends and family. i assume also that you have run across those clients who lets say are less than desirable. but as the poster of this message says you have a choice. can you imagine not. he also says he is not here to condem escorting but telling us to support those who have made this their line of work not those who are forced into. its like buying a rolex at the jewelery story not at the corner of 42 and 8 for 10 dollars. as an approved escort who takes pride in his work i am sure you dont want to be displaced by those who are psuedo escorts. thank you for your insight.

[Bilbo]

I think that the man has a point here. He does suggest that we quit hiring those who do this because they have no other choice. That does sound heartless, but the more people find themselves actually doing this under those circumstances and being able to survive, the more will try to do it. And just how good at it can they be under those circumstances? So, it is in all of our better interests to not hire them and let some other group truely out to do charitable works take care of them. Such groups already exist. I would certainly not send money to someone on a scheme like this as a result of his first posting here. (And he will get his desire to punish the bar owners by the fact that if we all don't hire those guys, the bar will be pretty empty.) As far as charity, we as a group have trouble paying enough to keep this site together. We are hardly going to try to start a half way house for people who shouldn't be associating with us anyway. And there is such a crying need for housing for older gays. (Starting a meaningful discussion on what to do locally was recently voted one of the top goals of the houston (gay) activists network, Han-net.) We mustn't allow charlatans to make hay off of this problem. We mustn't allow it to become fragmented. We need to do something about this as part of the larger group, while making sure that any services for aging gays do not discriminate against retired escorts, though I doubt if they will try to do any such thing.

[Guest WetDream]

Although I think it is highly unlikely that organized effort can come out of this thread (certainly one's conscience should be a guide to hiring ANY escort), there is a model available in the dance world -- another profession characterized by hard and short work life. There is a foundation set up to retain dancers in another profession when they are nearing the end of their careers. Maybe something like this could work. Any lawyers, investors out there to set it up?

[+ Charlie]

When I first read this post I thought it was a put-on, but some people are taking it seriously, and perhaps the poster really was sincere. It sounded to me, however, that he was congratulating himself on his sensitivity and power to impress these young men with his ability to give away large sums of money. Why not throw in a Christmas turkey, too?

 

The logic is pretty screwy, too: let's solve the problem by only hiring guys who don't need the money! Aside from the question of how we are supposed to determine in advance who needs the money and who is in it for fun, it seems perverse to say, "Sorry, I can't hire you because this is bad for your self-esteem" (or whatever it is that the poster is bothered about), and then point out the corner on which he should stand to be picked up to do itinerant manual labor. Of course, conservatives use this sort of logic all the time when talking about social welfare.

 

Naturally we should treat escorts as real human beings who deserve to be treated with sympathy and respect for their individuality, but I wish the poster had the same concern about immigrants who were not so sexually appealing, like Chinese women working in California sweatshops for one-tenth what his escort is earning. "Mentoring" a handsome but unhappy pay-for-play young man may indulge one's vanity, but it not reforming a system that penalizes lots of workers outside the "legitimate" economy.

[Guest lets_care]

hi i am the original poster. trust me i am not looking for an award or halo. i just wanted to bring to the attention of many readers something i feel very strongly about and that was of great concern to me. i agree that there are other groups of people who also need our help guidance and generosity however since this is a site for escorts/escorting i felt that my experience/concerns were well directed to this forum. i am eager to see this through. i do not to be the founder of this but only one of its team members. i would appreciate anyone who can direct me to an originization where i can donate my time and money. please believe me i am sincere.

best wishes

[adriano46]

Lets-Care,

 

I was impressed by your original message, and often found myself nodding, as I have done the same in exactly the same city and bar (you are not so good at hiding that info, by the wey).

 

At the same time, while not as apparently wealthy as you to give away a few thousand dollars in two or three days, I have often experinced the same feeling you had with the guy you picked up: and for this reason, I have sworn off hustlers in hustler bars. I found my sympathy being run on overdrive. Most of these guys are from Latin America (in this big northeastern US city), living in crowded and clostly apartments in the bouroughs, and who do this to provide rent, food and some extras for phone calls home.

 

However, that said, I once picked up a guy, similar to your own story, and took him to Macy's, got him some new clothes, fed him a meal and some drinks, and gave him a few hundred $$ for the time spent (no sex at all). To my shock (and stupidity), he was back on the corner 2 hours later, clothes given away, and hustling. That was my "wake-up" call.

 

The immigration problem in the US does not hinge on escorting (or better, on hustling), and all our own best intentions cannot do much until US immigration laws change or are more philanthropic.

 

On what Rod has said (and Bilbo), I generally use the same escorts now, men with whom I'm comfortable on both a social and sexual level, and in whom I do have an interest in their "careers" (all have other jobs), and try, where I can, to help them with advice or even some investment help. This builds up more esteem between us and trust, and in the end, makes the whole client-escort relationship less troublesome (and, as Bilbo will say to me if he jumps in here - BEWARE NOT TO FALL FOR THE GUY!!!). Remember always how the relationship starts and keep that in front of your mind.

[Guest lets_care]

hey adriano..good morning..i know i was not very good at hiding the names and places however i saw no point in name dropping..i am sure there are places like this all over the world..it is not so much the place that is of importance but the situation..thnx for your post..your points are well taken..unfortunately the world is not a perfect place but we cant stop trying to do our part to make it better..

in your situation though i disagree..it was not your stupidity but his that got the best of the situation..he lost his chance perhaps to a better path..

thnx for your response and input..

best wishes

[MiamiLooker]

"its your kind of attitude that gives many of us a bad name"

 

My only defense is to say I guess I lack the point of reference mentioned in the post as I've never picked up a hustler in a bar (other than a dancer or three) or on the street, and I'm not so "well connected" to be included in the group that can "teach them to get phoney social security numbers" so to those of you that do, I apologize if my attitude has given you a bad name.

 

My question back to you is why are you responding to your own post with a different login name? You've received some supportive posts without having to legitimize it yourself....

[adriano46]

Let's_Care,

 

Thank YOU for the compliment.

 

In reading through many other threads here, one thought recurs: if a client sees the escort as a person, and not as a thing (as difficult as that might seem to some) a lot of problems could be avoided.

 

In my own very "closeted" state, I find it so refreshing to meet a good escort (and there are many around), who is comfortable with who he is, who has intelligence, wit, culture, and a positive outlook. My times with some of these guys have been beyond words: they make me feel good about myself, free, open, and able to even be intimate. They have a gift which is envious.

 

From some of the response out here I have found I agree with many of them more on a mind/soul level, and not on a carnal one (again as crazy as that may sound to some). This makes me willing (and hopeful) to approach one or another (hello J.C., hello R.H.!!!) and set a date to meet these guys, and to experience their special gifts "up close and personal"!

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-12-01 AT 01:46AM (EST)[p]Charlie,

 

You’ve got your feet on solid ground and you head out of the clouds...

 

Regarding the retirement issue...

 

If this problem has a solution it will come from the escort community itself, this is invariably how these things always work -- those with vested interests, either directly or indirectly work to solve the problem. Others from outside the community may pitch in and help but they won't spearhead and maintain the effort over the long term because, ultimately the problem isn’t their’s.

 

However, the escort community is ill equipped to handle this problem, if it really is one. (I say if it really is one because escorting represents only one phase in a life time of vocations, which may help provide for retirement, at least as much and as often as it does for the general population.) Why because 99.9% of all escorts are young men -- 35 an under-- and as we older men know, younger men believe they are immortal, we did until the ravages of age began to take hold. Immortals are unconcerned with issues of death and survival in old age... it is somebody elses problem but not their's. Add to that lack of immediate concern the issue that the community is not cohesive -- there is no organization, even informal. Any one can be an escort -- here today, gone tomorrow. Granted there are many in for the long haul (in a relative sense) but they and the others are lone wolves plying their vocation or avocation independently with a mimimun of cooperation among them defined by the rare referral of a client to a ‘friend’. And these remarks apply ten-fold to the hustler segment. So the transitory nature of this business and the lack of cohesion in the community bode ill for the establishment of a ‘professional association’ or ‘guild’ to look out for the community interest.

 

What seems feasible is education... how to survive to old age and enjoy your retirement years. Education about what is required and how to accumulate the requesite resources. The establishment of an Escort Resource Center seems more than feasible in the internet age but it takes committed people (not many) and a modicum of resources (probably surprisingly little). What it does take is a healthy dose of commitment. The other alternative, maybe more pracitcal in the short term, is for this type of educational material to be included in a publication such as Arron Lawrence’s book or Matt Adams’ book. However, such publications eventually become dated.

 

I may be wrong on this, but based on my limited experience escorts make very good money, at least in the larger markets -- much better money than the average working stiff of the same age (the same is true of hustlers at 400-600 a night according to the anecdote by lets_care.) What is needed is the recognition of the need to prepare for retirement, to set goals and the knowledge of how to invest and how much to invest to accomplish those goals. But this requires the early recognition by the immortal that he is, in fact, mortal -- there’s the rub...

[swallows22]

Re the original entry

You are probably talking about illegal aliens who are working in an illegal profession and very probably not filing US tax returns and paying self-employment tax on those illegal earnings.

You expect us to pay them $200 per hour out of our money that we have paid tax on and to top it off, we now must provide for their retirement.

For all the BS you hear about Social Security, the politicians cannot afford for it to go bankrupt. It would be Les Miserables.

So if an escort works as such from say 20 to 30 and pays self-employment tax on their earnings, they have a safety net. Then from 30 to 65 they can work at whatever and really save heaps like the rest of us.

I just looked out the window and saw a bunch of pigs fly by.