Question on Racism and Escorts

[Guest NWDixieboy]

Is it necessarily racist if an escort cannot get sexually aroused by a person of a certain race? Is it different from not being able to function if a person is very overweight. I am asking because there are certain physical types that I can't respond sexually with, but whom I am not otherwise judgemental about. Some people I can be friends with but would never sleep with. Some people trigger certain buttons that don't work in a sex situation. There are certain types of accents that are total turnoffs for me, etc. I'm just wordering if it is possible to be non racist, yet still not be able to be sexually aroused around somewone with a certain type of face of skin color. Is it any different from my friends who could never be turned on by drag queens, women, people with facial hair, or chest hair or the lack thereof, or cut or uncut. If an escort said that he doesn't work with people who are overweight or uncut, would we be as harsh on them. I am well aware that these are all very sensitive issues. I am just curious how a person who is non- Caucasian would feel about these issues I have raised.

[Guest MrB]

There was a thread here titled "When an escort denies me because" a couple of weeks ago on precisely this subject.

[Guest scotty]

Are you the Escort, who was reviewd today, Alejandro?????

I can understand what you are saying. But, since the Escort, is in the service industry, don't you think that means you might be required to "DATE" anyone?????

Waiters, waitresses and bartenders, still have to serve patrons, whether or not they are attracted to them, if they tip well, if they even like them...

If you want to be able to pick and choose, you are definitly in the wrong profession and have not given your career in life much thought, thats fine and I don't think anyone could jude you.

But you chose this job and it is a job.......

Keep that in mind!!!!!!

[Guest Tex]

Hell no, it's not racist. However, because it's a sensitive area and you certainly wouldn't want anyone to question your decision as being racially motivated, it would probably be better to skirt the issue. Be gracious and make up a different excuse for avoiding the appointment.

 

Personally, I've never had an escort verify my race before booking a meeting, but I would not be offended, especially if it would cause a performance problem. Why in the hell would you WANT to hire someone who had racial prejudice against you, much less have it hidden or find out about it after the fact? Duh.

 

Isn't this question's basis similar to women being offended when gay men avoid their flirtations? Does our lack of interest have a prejudicial basis? It either works or it doesn't, right? But does that make you morally wrong for being homosexual? It's just life.

[Guest EvilSwine]

I don't see people making a big deal on here about escorts who can't get aroused by fat clients, etc.. It's not like sexual arousal is a totally voluntary response. If the person you've hired isn't physically turned-on by you for some reason, you can't assume that they hate fat people or are racists. If we started accusing people of being racists because they couldn't get an erection, then we'd be in big trouble because I'm sure there are a lot of clients who'd be in the same boat.

[Guest icon513]

My opinion, which is likely to be controversial, is that escorts have no business being in the business if they are unwilling to serve entire races of people. They are in the business of providing companionship of a sexual nature. Why should they expect all of their customers to be sexually attractive to them? If they limit their clientele to only those sexually attractive to them, they are looking for dates, not customers.

 

A good escort should be able to perform with anyone, regardless of age, physical shape, or race. If he does not personally find his customer attractive, he should be able to do a pretty damned good job of faking it. Take Viagra and fantasize about Aryan poster boys if you have to, but just get on with performing the service you have chosen to provide as a profession.

 

And, I'm sorry -- there is only one word for an escort who welcomes white customers who look like Jabba the Hutt while turning away customers who might look like Denzel Washington or Brandon Lee: BIGOT.

[SFViking]

icon, well said! (I noticed the two defenders of racism TEX and DIXIEboy have handles that indicate a southern origin. Racism is still alive and well in the South.)

[Guest Hanover]

Sexual arousal is not a matter of choice. You cannot WILL yourself to find someone physically appealing. (Well, I can't, and I suspect that's true of most. I wish I could.) Judging someone morally for their sexual preferences is what philosophers call a category mistake, applying a category (eg. bigotry) to something to which it does not apply, like reproaching someone for being tall or having a squeaky voice. It may be regrettable, unpleasant or bizarre, but it's not immoral or untrue (in a factual sense). Moral evaluations only apply to those things over which we have some control, and sexual tastes aren't among them. No one chooses what they like sexually. We play the hand we're dealt, alas. A genuine bigot who thinks that an entire class of people is mentally inferior (for example) can be shown to be mistaken by means of reason and evidence. And someone who verbally or physically assaults someone because of their skin colour deserves moral reproach. (And more.) But in what sense is a person who is not sexually aroused by a class of people factually mistaken or moral deficient? In what sense can sexual appetites (or ANY appetites for that matter) be called wrong, either factually or morally? There is no universal moral standard for evaluating sexual tastes, and moralising sexual preferences is no less bizarre than moralising peoples' taste in food.

[Guest Alexander]

HooBoy should add the following items in the review process:

1) Does the escort accept ( )Caucasian, ( )Black, ( )Asian-Pacific Islander, ( ) South Asian {Indo-Pakistani}, ( ) Arab, ( ) Hispanic, ( )Mixed race <50% Aryan, ( ) Others, ( ) no preference.

2) Does the escort accept ( ) <100 lbs clients, ( ) 100-150 lbs clients, ( ) 150-200 lbs clients, mostly fat,( ) 150-200 lbs clients, mostly muscle, ( )>200 lbs clients, mostly fat, ( )>200 lbs, mostly muscle, ( )no preference.

3) Does the escort accept ( ) 18 - 30 yo clients, ( ) 31-39 yo clients, ( )40-50 yo clients, ( ) 51-65 yo clients,( ) >65 yo clients, ( ) no preference.

4) Does the escort accept ( )cut only, ( )no preference, ( ) <6" acceptable, ( ) 6" - 9" acceptable, ( ) >9" only, ( ) no preference

5) Does the escort accept ( ) non-American, non-European accent, ( )non-American, European British accent,( )non-American, European non-British accent,( )American accent only{all regions}, ( )American accent {with no southern droll and other sub-accents that are uniquely sounding - i.e. from Brooklyn, southern Jersey, inner city lingo, etc.}, ( ) American accent with correct grammar and word usage only, ( ) No preference

6) Does the escort accept ( ) blue eyes, ( ) brown eyes, ( )black eyes, ( ) green eyes, ( ) no preference.

7) Does the escort accept ( ) blonde hair, ( ) dark brown hair, ( ) black hair, ( ) no preference.

8) Does the escort accept ( ) no gray strand in scalp hair, ( ) partially graying hair, ( ) full grayed hair, ( ) no preference. [same with client's pubic hair]

 

There. In this way, we clients from all walks of life can have a better way of choosing the escorts we'd like to share our time with and to pamper with; and to get rid from our List those that will just waste our time, and with which we just don't give a damn.

 

Alex

 

alexander_d_grt@yahoo.com

[Guest Tex]

You are wrong, SFViking. Nothing in my post reflects a defense of racism. If racism is still alive in the South, I don't know about it. The thread's author asked if the noted behavior was racist. My opinion is that it's not. My "defense" was simply that it's ridiculous to pay someone who does not WANT to be with you, especially when there are so many others WILLING to offer enjoyable services.

 

If your opinion is different from mine, that's fine. I still love you. However, I'd thank you for not putting negative words in my mouth.

[Guest NWDixieboy]

Interesting responses to my question. Thank you. I have done sex work in the past myself and have had enjoyable and mutually satisfying sessions with people of all races. But, contrary to the myth, I myself almost never fantasized during a session but tried to find something in that person or situation to respond erotically to. I think it made the encounters more meaningful for both parties to try to actually " be there". There were certain types that really didn't work for me, and in my instance they were not racially related, but was because they reminded me of men I had issues with in my own personal sex history. But should I judge a fellow sex worker harshly if his sexual buttons couldn't be activated by a certain physical type if in every other aspect of his life he could be considered a non- racist person. I can see both sides of the issue,but to think of a sex worker as a machine or plastic doll that one pushes a button and they respond to everybody the same is not always realistic. This work has been a great learning experience for me. When you throw sex into the equation, it brings many of our predjudices and preferences into a different light.

[Guest icon513]

No, it is not bigotry if you happen not to be turned on by black guys, Asian guys, or what have you. We all have types that do it for us and types that don't. It IS bigotry, however, for someone in a service industry to deny that service to someone based upon their race.

 

In the escorting profession, I think it pretty much comes as a given that a significant portion of one's clientele will not be in the category of guys one would normally find sexually attractive. Am I wrong?

 

Good escorts are not just "good at sex". They are good at making people -- even those who might be physically repugnant to them under other circumstances -- feel sexy. Call it "acting" , "mind over matter", or just being able to find something attractive in virtually everyone, but if you can't do it with clients of all shapes, colors, and sizes, you should not be in the business.

[Guest MrB]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-00 AT 04:55PM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-00 AT 04:53 PM (EST)

 

That's plain silly. Escorts are human beings, too, no different from anyone else. I'm sure there are guys who can do this--show a client a good time for whom they feel no attraction whatsoever. I'm sure there are many more who just cannot. I am not going to tell them to get out of the business just because they cannot work all of its niches. It's really unfair to place such high demands on escorts. Already, we require them to have perfect physiques, be hung like horses, be horny 24/7, hold a conversation on ANY subject and act like we're God's gift to mankind. Surely it's OK if they can only do that for most, not all clients. What if a gay male escort gets a call from a 250 lbs 70-year old black woman with a nasty rash--does he say yes, take her money and fail at satisfying her needs, or is he honest enough to say that's not what I do?

Having said that, the real question in my opinion is HOW do you let a prospective client down easy... Stating on your site that you don't do blacks, Asians, etc. IS going to hurt people's feelings.

How DO escorts do this? I have no idea. Any thoughts?

 

 

MrB

 

PS I am NOT from the south, I happen to be especially attracted to Latin and black people and just had sex with an Asian this afternoon. If they are not muscular and extra hung, they're not for me, though. Is it politically correct to be a *sizeist*?

[Guest Hanover]

>No, it is not bigotry if

>you happen not to be

>turned on by black guys,

>Asian guys, or what have

>you. We all have

>types that do it for

>us and types that don't.

> It IS bigotry, however,

>for someone in a service

>industry to deny that service

>to someone based upon their

>race.

 

When it comes to escorting, the distinction that you draw here doesn't hold up. Sexual arousal is an INVOLUNTARY response. An escort is only able to provide a service within the fixed parameters of his own tastes, over which he has no real control. He is a victim of his appetites as much as the rest of us. They constitute a limiting condition on what he can do. If they didn't, gay escorts would be labelled "sexist" for refusing their services to women, which is palpably absurd. Are you saying that a gay escort should just "close his eyes and think of England" when approached by a female client?

[Guest Wildcats]

Do you happen to be an escort based in Chicago?

 

Matt from Vancuover, please visit Chicago.

[Matt_Vancouver]

How did I get into this thread?

They lurv me they really lurv me: )

shucks

matt

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[Guest icon513]

"What if a gay male escort gets a call from a 250 lbs 70-year old black woman with a nasty rash--does he say yes, take her money and fail at satisfying her needs, or is he honest enough to say that's not what I do?"

 

 

No, of course not. A "male4male" or "gay" escort is clearly in the business of serving men. He therefore has no obligation to serve female clients. But, if he gets a call from a 250 lb, 70 year-old black MAN (without a nasty rash), yes, I would expect the escort to treat that customer as if he were the hottest thing on earth. That's his job.

 

An escort can reasonably expect his client to be clean and free of obvious health problems (such as your "nasty rash") that might reasonably be considered a threat to him. There might be some other reasons for an escort to refuse a client (such as a reasonable fear that he might be a law enforcement officer, serial killer, psychopath, etc.) -- but race is NOT one of them.

 

The argument that sexual attraction is an involuntary response does not hold. One can certainly kiss, fondle, lick, suck, rim and be fucked by someone who does not appeal in the least, and pretend to like it. What's the big deal?

 

As for getting an erection, almost any redblooded male should be able to get it up with a reasonable amount of manual or oral stimulation, no matter who's in the room with him. I don't consider myself an overly horny guy, but if I closed my eyes while the Elephant Man gave me an expert BJ and fondled my ass, I'm pretty sure I'd get a hard on. With some mental control, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to keep it while fucking him.

 

Of course, I'd PREFER that it was Brad Pitt that was doing the honors, but that is a preference. We all have preferences. I, for one, would not voluntarily have sex with an obese person. I prefer Asians to Caucasians, smooth to hairy, cute to ugly, and young to old. If I made a professional decision to become an escort, though, it would be clear to me that my preferences would take a back seat to providing a service, and that somewhere along the line I would have to have sex with a far, hairy, ugly old white guy. If I weren't prepared to give someone of that description a good time, I would simply not become an escort.

 

The fact is, you do not see escorts advertising "no hairy guys" or "no old guys" or "no bald guys" or "no guys with big noses". To do so would be unreasonable given one's profession. Why would it be considered reasonable, therefore, for someone to advertise "no black guys" or "no Asian guys"?

 

If you consider it reasonable to put on these restrictions on one's clientele, then I would like to formally announce that I am entering the escort field. My rates are $200 per hour, but please note that I only serve buff, smooth, 18 - 21 year old boys that look like they just stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch catalog. My e-mail is icon513@yahoo.com.

[Matt_Vancouver]

Does this mean I can't hire you? Cuase I'm over 21 and don't have the Abercrombie look.

Damn and you sounded so HOT!! wwwrrooooowrrrr! Tiger.

Just a bit o playful banter boys, don't get in an uproar: )

Matt

http://go.to/mattsplace

matt_escort@yahoo.com

[Guest MrB]

I'm so happy for you that you can get it up for the Elephant man :-) I know I couldn't, and I'm not going to demand it from an entire profession. Like everyone else, he should find an escort for whom he has appeal. It is a lot more fun if a guy is really attracted to you than if he's going through the motions and putting on a show.

[Guest EvilSwine]

heh heh..Matt seems to be everyone's flavor...

[Will]

There is a crucial distinction to be drawn between innate, involuntary responses and responses based on learned attitudes that have been consciously developed. I hope that we can all agree that negative distinctions based on whatever one means by "race" are deeply cultural and must be carefully taught. (Remember the song from "South Pacific" or "The King and I" -- "You have to be carefully taught"?) Those of us who have experienced homophobia know that full well.

 

Escorts are not waiters, or lawyers, or doctors. And those who seek their services are not visiting restaurants, they do not have problems that can be articulated under the law, and they are not seeking impartial treatment of their physical complaints. In general, clients pay to experience being sexually aroused with and in the presence of another sexually aroused man. Clients generally do not choose their escorts by selecting for characteristics they do NOT find erotically appealing.

 

I don't think escorts should be expected to turn on to anyone and everyone. Some -- probably most of the really famous ones --can and do. Those who want to "specialize" for whatever reason should say so. After all, we have Bear Escorts, Leather Escorts, and so forth. Why shouldn't escorts pick and choose, too?

 

AS LONG AS THEY SAY THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING, that is. For example, I consider myself a feminist. But I am most definitely not attracted to women. If I were an escort, advertised in such a way that my gay orientation didn't appear, and then turned down women clients with, "Sorry, I can't turn on to you because you're a woman," then I think I might surrender my "feminist" badge for a "sexist" one.

 

It's all a matter of being sensitive to other people. And where matters of sex and self are concerned, nothing pays off more than sensitivity.

 

Now a word for our self-righteous Viking from San Francisco: I am a white man who was born and reared in Birmingham, Alabama. That means that I was carefully taught to be a racist. For more than thirty years I have lived outside the South; and during that time I have continued the work I began even while there, namely, the work of ridding myself of racist attitudes that I did not invite in the first place and that I believe to be objectively evil.

 

Whether that still makes me a racist is a matter of discussion. But I can tell you this: In the Deep South, people used to be up-front about their racism. Tacky, yes; but at least you got what you saw. Furthermore, it is one of the reasons why Southern racism is nuanced, malleable, and is, in fact, disappearing. By contrast, up here in the tight-lipped, tight-assed, style-free part of the Frozen Nawth where I live now, people don't like to say what they mean because it might give the wrong impression. In this bastion of grand inclusiveness, though, I can attest that never in the Deep South did I witness the depth, viciousness, and smugness of racism that I have witnessed, time and again, during the thirty years I have spent in the supposedly non-racist non-South. Racism is more alive outside the South than in the South. At least the South has begun to face the realities of racism in a way that few other regions of the U.S. have done. And that goes for California, too. How about all those people of Mexican and East Asian descent? No racism in San Francisco? Are you going to try to sell me the Golden Gate Bridge as well?

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Will,

 

I think you said it pretty well...

 

And your observation about racism in the 'Nawth' -- that's been mine as well.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>... Cuase I'm over 21

>and don't have the Abercrombie

>look.

 

You are!... you don't!!... hmmm (I wonder who that was?)

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

Will,

 

I think you said it pretty well...

 

And your observation about racism in the 'Nawth' -- that's been mine as well.

[Traveller]

>If they are not

>muscular and extra hung, they're

>not for me, though. Is

>it politically correct to be

>a *sizeist*?

 

Absolutely not, as long as you add in "LEAN AND muscular," as well as "tall." Besides you temporary insanity regarding Andreas versus Sergej, you seem to have excellent taste; it being very close to mine, of course.

 

Later.

 

PS. Of course, as soon as you locate Black Hercules, please tell me. Also, about that drink I owe you, how often are you in NYC?, my presumption being that you live in London.