Do you believe there’s more fake clients, than fake escorts?

[Jarrod_Uncut]

And by fake, I don’t mean “not real” but rather “not serious”. 

I’ve just been having a hell of a week. This ties right along with my other post about holiday nonsense. But this is a bit more tailored to the real nitty gritty. 

Since about Monday, I’ve had about 6 to 7 clients reach out to me…and not a single one has ended up making it to book. I don’t get why some clients; especially in class-segregated/small minded markets, can’t seem to fucking get their shit together EVER, and go through with an appointment.

When I let them know I’m available now, they can’t meet now. When I try to tell them I need advance notice, they agree but then always have some excuse why they can’t do it. On top of that, there’s been 2 clients the last few days, who have been texting me since 2020 OF LAST YEAR, where they have contacted me about a session, and then they STILL aren’t ready when they contact me. STILL can’t get their schedule in line with mine, and STILL want to operate on their time, instead of taking the time to figure out a mutually agreeable time.
 

Then they want to act passive aggressive and either stop responding or block me, when I allude to them: dude, you’ve contacted me several times for the last 2 years!! Why can’t you get your shit together TODAY! How hard can it really be? I don’t know what part of their brain cells misses the simple concept that MAYBE, MAYBE, just MAYBE, if you call a provider out the blue after you haven’t contacted them in months and didn’t book them the last time, perhaps they won’t be able to accommodate YOU in exactly the way YOU need it to be.

Maybe they should have kept in contact, and made a little more effort to arrange something. Instead of going ghost for 5 months and then texting out the blue as if I’ve got no other purpose in the world, but to wait on them for all infinity to make up their minds and figure out when the hell they want to book a session.

That's 1 thing I can't understand. Too many out here think they’re time is more important. I shouldn’t have to yield to their schedule, if they contact ME and want to see ME, they need to yield to my availability. I didn’t call them. They called me, how do they call me and expect me to dance around them?

If I tell them I’m available today, they need to do whatever it takes to come TODAY. Why can't they meet today, if they have enough time to cruise Ads, find my number and text me? If I say I need advanced notice, they should be able figure that out as well. Because again, was I expecting you? No. But if I say I can accommodate the same day you contact me, have the fucking decency to make it happen. It’s like again: if he contacted me, courtesy has it that HE should be willing to accommodate my availability. Not the other way around. 

Sometimes I think they intentionally fuck with us out of low self-esteem, and likely because trying to compensate for that. But that shouldn’t be my problem. Nor is their busyness or inability to keep up with their impulsive desires my issue either. 

I'm about ready to start figuring ways out to meet better clientele. And I know it's likely going to start with a change of location and my new separate platform that will stop a lot of the flaky fakes in their tracks...All I'll be asking is, "thankyou for your payment, how can I help you?" 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Rick M]

I feel your pain, Jarrod. As a client I sometimes feel neglected by providers when they disappear in the middle of a discussion. But outside of this setting, in the so-called dating sphere, I get the same flak. You talk to a person, seem to discover commonalities, and then *poof*, they are gone. Perhaps because modern life involves snap judgments and about-faces, this is just the way it is... but I don't like it, either.

[John]

Yes, it's frustrating, but the client who doesn't shop, never buys.

[+ nycman]

[topunderachiever]

@nycman please don't be so harsh.  We don't want to scare him away.  

I love reading his posts and am thoroughly entertained by his misery.  

Edited December 16, 2021 by topunderachiever

[Jarrod_Uncut]

15 hours ago, Rick M said:

I feel your pain, Jarrod. As a client I sometimes feel neglected by providers when they disappear in the middle of a discussion. But outside of this setting, in the so-called dating sphere, I get the same flak. You talk to a person, seem to discover commonalities, and then *poof*, they are gone. Perhaps because modern life involves snap judgments and about-faces, this is just the way it is... but I don't like it, either.

The other thing I’m finding also: majority of these are coming fro RentMasseur where I post in addition to RentMen. But some may have seen me on both. 

But just today, I got another one: this guy contacted me Tuesday around noon and I sent a couple of messages including my rate and availability. No response all the way until Thursday, today. Citing that he was busy. Tells me he’s available “all day” but when I ask him to specify…says he’s only free until 5.

So…basically he waited almost 48 hours to inform me that he can meet today, but can only meet until 5. And wants me to host, which requires an additional level of planning on my part. A regular client has also requested to see me this afternoon, so I can’t accommodate before 5. Once again, another case of “revolve around them because you have nothing better than to sit and wait on my important ass for infinity” attitude. 

Like I say, once I get this new platform up and going…I’ll only be communicating with paid clients. That way, maybe if they spend something to speak to me, they’ll value it a little more. Versus me just answering texts from randos around the clock and not seeing anything from it.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

15 hours ago, John said:

Yes, it's frustrating, but the client who doesn't shop, never buys.

They can shop. I’m not stopping them from shopping. Looking at RentMen and RentMasseur is shopping.

Where shopping ends, is taking a $200/$300 item up to the register, and then leaving it there, and walking away. Right In the cashier’s face. That’s what these fraudulent clients are doing essentially. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[John]

No. Shopping includes asking the salesman about the $300 item: how does it work?  what does it do? And considering: do I like the way it functions? is it really what I am looking for?  Sometimes the answer is "not for me" or "not today" or "maybe later."  That's all part of the territory.

I shop.  I ask questions, but I try to keep track of the responses and to whom I have spoken.  I think I have a good system, but can slip up, esp. with changing profiles. 

However, you can be annoyed if the same customer comes back again and again over a period of time and asks the same questions.  But there are customers like that in every business.

Shopping is not running into the store, grabbing the first thing you find, and paying, but some providers seem to think that's how it works.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, topunderachiever said:

@nycman please don't be so harsh.  We don't want to scare him away.  

I love reading his posts and am thoroughly entertained by his misery.  

Haha. I know you think that’s funny, but you really just came off sounding like a jerk. If being entertained by someone’s misery actually is entertaining (and who told you I was miserable in the first place, I’m just addressing an issue), maybe you should see a psychologist. So, jokes on you 👌🏾 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

57 minutes ago, John said:

No. Shopping includes asking the salesman about the $300 item: how does it work?  what does it do? And considering: do I like the way it functions? is it really what I am looking for?  Sometimes the answer is "not for me" or "not today" or "maybe later."  That's all part of the territory.

I shop.  I ask questions, but I try to keep track of the responses and to whom I have spoken.  I think I have a good system, but can slip up, esp. with changing profiles. 

However, you can be annoyed if the same customer comes back again and again over a period of time and asks the same questions.  But there are customers like that in every business.

Shopping is not running into the store, grabbing the first thing you find, and paying, but some providers seem to think that's how it works.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, even though I answered that 1 time…this thread is not about “shopping at retail stores and how it is similar to contacting an escort”. You can definitely make another topic on that, if you choose to. Could be interesting to see how many other providers agree with your concept.

This is more about situations where the person isn’t considerate of the escort’s time, and thus come off as “fake”. Faking like they want to arrange a visit, but really either too chicken shit or too pre-occupied to really make it happen. Or just being a plain dick.

I googled an article on this yesterday, and one line in particular made a lot of sense to me: 

 

Meet the Fakes

First of all, it’s important to understand who it is that is likely to waste your time without turning into a paying client. Let’s meet the fakes.

You’ll hear from many different types of tire kickers, but the most common one are:

• Cheapskates. They want your work for next to nothing and are hopeful they can talk you down from your rates. They have no intention of paying you what you are worth and are likely to complain a lot if you do happen to work for them.
• Your competition. They want to know what you charge for your projects so that they can set their own prices. They’re hoping you’ll share your complete price list with them.
• Idea thieves. They want to get the details of how you do your work so that they can steal your ideas and do the work themselves. Or they may be planning to hire someone else to carry out your ideas.
• The lonely. They just want attention. They’ll take as much time from you as you’ll give them. They may even pay you a token amount, but they don’t need a freelancer. They probably need to join a social club.
• The angry (many of the types of clients contacting escorts). They haven’t paid you a dime and already they’re mistreating you. They may use a disrespectful tone or simply show a lack of respect.
• The sampler. This fake claims that your portfolio isn’t enough. He or she has to see a free sample of your work (to his or her specification) before hiring you for a project.

http://freelancem.ag/how-to-keep-fake-clients-from-stealing-your-time-and-sapping-your-energy/

 

Fortunently, I’ve been having a fun time with the Mr. Number app. Just been Blacklisting idiots almost every other day. And many of those people have bad reports already posted.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jamie21]

I take a pragmatic view, 50% of enquiries won’t end up booking, whether that’s because we can’t align times, they don’t like my prices, style, look or whatever, or they just can’t commit to anything (there’s lots of prevaricators….”I’ll definitely book next week etc”….  of course it never happens). Time wasters just get told ‘when you’re ready to book, contact me’. End of discussion. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jamie21
Typo

[EastbayMike]

3 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

 but you really just came off sounding like a jerk.

Pot meet kettle....

[jeezifonly]

4 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Okay, even though I answered that 1 time…this thread is not about “shopping at retail stores and how it is similar to contacting an escort”. You can definitely make another topic on that, if you choose to. Could be interesting to see how many other providers agree with your concept.

This is more about situations where the person isn’t considerate of the escort’s time, and thus come off as “fake”. Faking like they want to arrange a visit, but really either too chicken shit or too pre-occupied to really make it happen. Or just being a plain dick.

I googled an article on this yesterday, and one line in particular made a lot of sense to me: 

 

Meet the Fakes

First of all, it’s important to understand who it is that is likely to waste your time without turning into a paying client. Let’s meet the fakes.

You’ll hear from many different types of tire kickers, but the most common one are:

• Cheapskates. They want your work for next to nothing and are hopeful they can talk you down from your rates. They have no intention of paying you what you are worth and are likely to complain a lot if you do happen to work for them.
• Your competition. They want to know what you charge for your projects so that they can set their own prices. They’re hoping you’ll share your complete price list with them.
• Idea thieves. They want to get the details of how you do your work so that they can steal your ideas and do the work themselves. Or they may be planning to hire someone else to carry out your ideas.
• The lonely. They just want attention. They’ll take as much time from you as you’ll give them. They may even pay you a token amount, but they don’t need a freelancer. They probably need to join a social club.
• The angry (many of the types of clients contacting escorts). They haven’t paid you a dime and already they’re mistreating you. They may use a disrespectful tone or simply show a lack of respect.
• The sampler. This fake claims that your portfolio isn’t enough. He or she has to see a free sample of your work (to his or her specification) before hiring you for a project.

http://freelancem.ag/how-to-keep-fake-clients-from-stealing-your-time-and-sapping-your-energy/

 

Fortunently, I’ve been having a fun time with the Mr. Number app. Just been Blacklisting idiots almost every other day. And many of those people have bad reports already posted.

[Storm4U]

Yes I do think so…. I’m a masseur, so I think I encounter less flakes than I would if I advertised as an escort, but there are flakes in every service based business. The key is figuring out  the best way to navigate that part of the business in a  healthy way. It’s trick, but I’ve been able to do that, so it’s definitely possible.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Storm4U

[Jamie21]

2 hours ago, Storm4U said:

Yes I do think so…. I’m a masseur, so I think I encounter less flakes than I would if I advertised as an escort, but there are flakes in every service based business. The key is figuring out  the best way to navigate that part of the business in a  healthy way. It’s tricky but, I’ve been able to do that, so it’s definitely possible.

I’m a masseur too, there’s always flakes and I agree escorts probably get more aggravation. If you assume they’re all just trying to annoy you then yes it will be incredibly dispiriting but I know that a good proportion of the flakes are just genuine guys who are totally scared at the prospect of hiring a guy for a sexual encounter. They might be closeted and anxious about discretion, they might be inexperienced and struggling with their sexuality. They’ll make contact and then get too scared to follow through, or they’ll talk about booking to build up their confidence. 

For this reason I try to be understanding. Working in sex work can make you blasé about these things so it’s always important to consider that clients don’t come at it from the same perspective as me. Yes some are just wasters and will sap your energy but I can spot those. Most will be genuine guys who are hiring for the first time, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. When they do pluck up the courage to see me it’s always a pleasure to help them explore. I get a lot of satisfaction from those clients. 

[+ newatthis]

7 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

...but I know that a good proportion of the flakes are just genuine guys who are totally scared at the prospect of hiring a guy for a sexual encounter. They might be closeted and anxious about discretion, they might be inexperienced and struggling with their sexuality. They’ll make contact and then get too scared to follow through, or they’ll talk about booking to build up their confidence...

This is not a thread I've been following, but Jamie's thoughtful response caught my eye.  The above words exactly describe me (way back when I was really new at this).  When I finally took the plunge, I had the misfortune of hiring someone (well reviewed here, by the way*) who did not have Jamie's empathic qualities, and that encounter almost put me off hiring ever again.

*I later discovered that, despite all his good reviews, there was a sizeable group of clients who found him as off-putting as I did -- but had never reviewed him here.

[Monarchy79]

23 hours ago, topunderachiever said:

@nycman please don't be so harsh.  We don't want to scare him away.  

I love reading his posts and am thoroughly entertained by his misery.  

Mean Girl Alert 🚨 

[marylander1940]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:40 PM, topunderachiever said:

@nycman please don't be so harsh.  We don't want to scare him away.  

I love reading his posts and am thoroughly entertained by his misery.  

@Jarrod_Uncut is always an honest poster who speaks his mind, we're grateful to have him in this forum! 

Back to subject plenty of potential clients play games and bother escorts, unfortunately this behavior is now untraceable because of burner apps. 

[pubic_assistance]

On 12/15/2021 at 8:58 PM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Sometimes I think they intentionally fuck with us out of low self-esteem

Don't the majority of gay men suffer from self-esteem issues ? My experience with on-line hook ups is the same. Lots of chatting, planning and then when you get to actually asking for an address, they disappear.  Pretty much the primary reason I hire. I can't be bothered spending the time dealing with dudes who get off by thinking about  hooking up

[jtwalker]

9 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

I’m a masseur too, there’s always flakes and I agree escorts probably get more aggravation. If you assume they’re all just trying to annoy you then yes it will be incredibly dispiriting but I know that a good proportion of the flakes are just genuine guys who are totally scared at the prospect of hiring a guy for a sexual encounter. They might be closeted and anxious about discretion, they might be inexperienced and struggling with their sexuality. They’ll make contact and then get too scared to follow through, or they’ll talk about booking to build up their confidence. 

For this reason I try to be understanding. Working in sex work can make you blasé about these things so it’s always important to consider that clients don’t come at it from the same perspective as me. Yes some are just wasters and will sap your energy but I can spot those. Most will be genuine guys who are hiring for the first time, so I give them the benefit of the doubt. When they do pluck up the courage to see me it’s always a pleasure to help them explore. I get a lot of satisfaction from those clients. 

You have me pegged.  Even though I've hired many in the past, I always hesitate when booking time with someone new.

Now, I try not to contact anyone until I have a date and time in mind, but some escorts assume I'm a time waster because I ask a couple of questions.  In reality, I'm just turned off by one word answers, really long pauses in communication and abrupt communication.

When a guy uses a sentence and acts even a little interested, I typically will follow through and close the deal.

Some time wasters wouldn't be time wasters with a little bit of thought from the escort.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

6 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

@Jarrod_Uncut is always an honest poster who speaks his mind, we're grateful to have him in this forum! 

Back to subject plenty of potential clients play games and bother escorts, unfortunately this behavior is now untraceable because of burner apps. 

And here’s something I should add too that’s a little less transparent:

We’re in different times right now. I remember the days when I started, and I used to never really worry about these things. But now, with Covid STILL not going away, I think it continues to affect things in ways we may not even understand on the surface.

That’s why when times change, It calls for doing things a bit differently. To have this many fakes is beyond normal. Like I say, some cities pride themselves on being horrible for escorts, and clients manage to perpetuate the idea by showing their asses, but it’s so much bigger than that. In every city, in every state, there’s flakes. There’s a difference between being a “shy client working up confidence”, to just being an inconsiderate pest. 

The game has changed, and now I have to change. All that BS is so 2021. In 2022, I’m stepping the game up. It’s already started actually.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

17 hours ago, Storm4U said:

Yes I do think so…. I’m a masseur, so I think I encounter less flakes than I would if I advertised as an escort, but there are flakes in every service based business. The key is figuring out  the best way to navigate that part of the business in a  healthy way. It’s trick, but I’ve been able to do that, so it’s definitely possible.

You would think so right, but I’m noticing a higher number of flakes seem to be coming from massage based sites, in my area. 

You say you’ve been able to navigate that in a healthy way, please share…

I guess it wouldn’t be so noticeable if there was still a good number of folks showing up, but that’s not quite been the case.

It seems like with massage bookings, you have to always be there and be Square when they contact. They don’t always give much notice or seem able to schedule in advance. On top of that, the vast majority especially in “smaller” markets like Kansas City, almost never able to host. I can host, but the times I’m available to, they aren’t. Or something comes up. 
 

I’d get a consistent incall spot, but if guys are flaking the way they’ve been, I have little confidence that it would change if I were to get one. I don’t want to be in anymore situations where I’m paying for an apartment in a city I’m barely getting any serious clients in. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

22 hours ago, jtwalker said:

Some time wasters wouldn't be time wasters with a little bit of thought from the escort.

Yeah, but at the same time: it’s like how do you really know? Like I say, it’s not as simple as “shopping at men’s warehouse”. 
 

It’s not always the escort’s fault in such situations. I can give a little thought, but that is not extended forever. For example, here’s a post from a client who been contacting me since 2020, and would fake out everytime. Then he hits me up this morning, and I see he never replied to 3 texts I sent him back in October. I never thought to look him up, and here’s what I found:

[Guest]

On 12/17/2021 at 10:56 AM, pubic_assistance said:

Don't the majority of gay men suffer from self-esteem issues ? My experience with on-line hook ups is the same. Lots of chatting, planning and then when you get to actually asking for an address, they disappear.  Pretty much the primary reason I hire. I can't be bothered spending the time dealing with dudes who get off by thinking about  hooking up

I think you put your finger on something. You could, arguably, replace "gay men" with "men" or "people", but the point remains the same. Escorting aims to provide a space where these sorts of games and performances, empathetic though we may be to their root causes, can be left behind. It's this kind of behaviour that frustrates me in clients, not somebody simply asking questions as per the old "shopping" metaphor.

 

[jtwalker]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:46 PM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Yeah, but at the same time: it’s like how do you really know? Like I say, it’s not as simple as “shopping at men’s warehouse”. 
 

It’s not always the escort’s fault in such situations. I can give a little thought, but that is not extended forever. For example, here’s a post from a client who been contacting me since 2020, and would fake out everytime. Then he hits me up this morning, and I see he never replied to 3 texts I sent him back in October. I never thought to look him up, and here’s what I found:

So, I have time wasters in my business too.  There are people who schedule meetings and call frequently.  Probably not as many as in your business, but I would say it plagues everyone.

I don't know a scientific way to tell who is wasting my time, so I tend to just play nice until my gut says they are a time waster.  Then, I politely become less available for discussions.

If I'm not doing business with someone else at the time, then the conversations don't cost me anything.  As a rule of thumb, I find it better to be kind and take care of people.  It tends to come back around.