Senior Living Facility...Why Not?

[+ sniper]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:27 AM, WilliamM said:

Having sex!  You are a romantic, or  a wishful thinker. 

My disabled sister lives in a nursing home, and she said there are a number of residents who hook up and there are always horrified family members who are upset to learn that the facility doesn't stop it because the patient has the right to make that decision.

[+ not2rowdy]

Quote

17 hours ago, Luv2play said:

....what prevents you from transferring all your assets to your spouse or boyfriend, and then claim to be penniless to receive state aid....

 

Medicaid is a Federal program that is run by the individual State. Medicaid rules are complicated and there are some differences among States.

However, the Deficit Reduction Act (DRA) of 2005 created a five year “look back period”. Basically it says the State can look back at any asset transfer within the past 5 years and penalize accordingly.

See this link for additional info.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

[+ nycman]

On 9/21/2021 at 7:55 PM, Luv2play said:

Also, if you don't die but need to go into long term care and have no insurance, what prevents you from transferring all your assets to your spouse or boyfriend, and then claim to be penniless to receive state aid.

You do realize with your "masterplan" that you end up with crappy Medicare
housing/care and someone else has complete control over all of your assets.

That’s a an incredibly bad plan. And that’s assuming you had the "foresight" to 
irrevocably transfer all of your assets 5 years before, to avoid the "look back"
provision mentioned above. 

Scamming the system rarely ends well for people who didn’t grow up doing it. 

[arnie]

This is a complex topic.  I am a retired physical therapist who did home care for 35 years and I have seen it all.  There are good facilities and bad ones.  I now live in a retirement community and most people are independent and active.  However people continue to die around me.  It is a fact of life no matter where you as a senior live.  Even if you are in your life long home,  your friends and church community will die off and the humor among the surviving is gallows.  There is a grim acceptance of people getting ill and dying.  Unless they were your bestie, you just shrug and carry on.  As most people here are not from there, and even if they are their families are scattered.  So for most, there is not even a memorial service, much less a funeral.  It is held wherever the children are.  So as we say, getting old is not for the weak.   

Staying in your own home depends on how much reliable community support you have.  For me that is my car keys.  I am able to fully manage my own home, cooking shopping and laundry.  But you have two options.  Either you eventually need help or you die before you do.  

If you choose to live long enough, where do you get that help?  If you rely on paid help, well they are unreliable and you need a back up.  If you can skip a day or two of help well ok, but if you can not, and you do not have children or another who can at least back you up, then you may have no choice but to go into a facility.  

One of the issues that hit me back when I was a student was that people would prefer to live alone as a shut in than live in a congregate care facility.  This woman had to be carried down 4 flights of steps to leave her building and she did very well in the nursing home where she was getting rehab and could have stayed there.  

So while I will stay in my home as long as it is feasible, I realize that there may be a next step in my housing situation.   I moved across the country into this development and looked at it as a new chapter in my life and as an adventure.  If the time comes that I need to move on, I will have the same attitude.  Fortunately I will have the financial resources to both keep me in this home as long as feasible and then  move into a nicer facility. 

But life is a series of stages and to think that you have control is to fool yourself.  You continue to have to go where life takes you, even if that was the continuation of your first job out of school or around the world.  The only way to really survive is to look forward to new experiences and people.  If you are mad and resentful you will just make yourself miserable.     

 

[MscleLovr]

I find this thread to be a really interesting exchange of views.

My planning ahead is piecemeal. It mainly consists of having a much younger partner and deciding 20 years ago to move into an expensive but very full-service building in a very good location. Within a short walk, we have tennis courts and a swimming pool, grocery stores, gyms, theatres etc. I have good help in that I’ve 2 drivers I use regularly and a physiotherapist I see weekly.

My planning was influenced by my parents’ refusal to plan ahead. Both are now dead, having lived until their mid-90s and outlived their friends. I was able to dissuade them (when in their early 80s) from moving into an apartment but rather to go into a swanky assisted living complex. Both were astounded to find on moving in that they were the oldest residents! They enjoyed and used the facilities. After my father’s death, my mother used to go out 2x weekly for lunch and a shopping trip with another widow. Luckily both my parents had ‘good deaths’ after brief illnesses. 

 

 

 

[ericwinters]

This thread makes me want to jump off my balcony right now. 🤯

[+ nycman]

3 hours ago, ericwinters said:

This thread makes me want to jump off my balcony right now. 🤯

"Jump, jump, jump....."

 

You can take the punk out of the city, but....

Grin 

[+ friendofsheila]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:34 AM, Vegas_nw1982 said:

A provider friend of mine, originally from Mexico, says that if he is ever forced to return to Mexico he will open a retirement home for gay men from the U.S., and it will include a staff of young men who will offer their "services" once a month as part of the rent.

I hope they also hire someone to keep the bedsprings oiled.

[mike carey]

On 9/23/2021 at 2:35 AM, Luv2play said:

Now I've learned something. The only jurisdiction in Canada that doesn't recognize common law unions is Quebec

In Australia, the term 'common law union' is not used (and marriage law is federal). The term 'de facto relationship' is what is used here, and all social welfare and similar entitlements are federally administered so there not any differences between the states. To receive benefits, for many years if you cohabited with a person of the opposite sex, you were presumed to be in a de facto relationship unless you could demonstrate otherwise, but same sex relationships were not recognised under any or the entitlement provisions. So, both members of a same sex couple were entitled to single person benefits, and any assets each member owned did not affect the benefit payable to the other. That provision was changed before equal marriage was enacted. Marriage automatically activates survivor benefits for retirement pay (if there are any such benefits available), but you have to establish to your retirement payment provider that you are in a de facto relationship. That may still be possible even after you die (by the survivor, clearly, not by you), but it is not all that difficult while you are both alive.

My retirement pay has such a provision as it's being paid as a life-time annuity by the military superannuation scheme. I could have moved the lump sum I had accumulated to another superannuation fund, where what happened to any residual amount would depend on the product I had placed it in. (If an annuity dies with you, you and the fund both gamble on whether you will reach the actuarial death date or not, so it's not necessarily better to place it in a product that will survive you.)

Edited September 26, 2021 by mike carey

[BSR]

On 9/21/2021 at 6:13 PM, CuriousByNature said:

The idea of spending retirement on a cruise ship has it's attractions, but I do not think the various article promoting it tell the whole story.  One cannot compare the costs of a nursing home and a cruise - a cruise will not provide the level of support that people in extended care or even assisted living might need.  It is more accurate to compare the costs of independent living communities to that of a cruise ship.  Even at a posh place, like where my aunt lived, the cost was about $6000 per month.  Some cruise companies say that the cruise fare runs around $100-$125 per day, but it is important to remember that these quotes are likely per person, double occupancy.  And may be for an inside cabin at those rates.  Single supplements are often 100% of the fare cost, so it is likely that a daily rate for a basic cabin could be in the $200 range quite easily, and even $300+ for a balcony stateroom.  Then there are port taxes and charges for every leg of the journey that must also be included.  Medical care on board may be available, but I do not believe it is generally included in the fare either.  Nor are most beverages included on most cruise lines - even most non-alcoholic beverages are charged on lines such as Princess, Holland America and Royal Caribbean.  On high-end lines like Oceania, Azamara, and Regent, there are many more things included - but expect to pay closer to $1000 per day.  I have heard that a lot of lines have rewards for frequent cruisers, such as free laundry and dry cleaning, but those benefits are likely outweighed by the additional costs such as fuel surcharges, automatic tipping and taking part in the odd shore excursion.  I have read that a single person cruising for a year on a mid-range ship, in an outside/balcony cabin (not a suite) should be prepared to spend approximately $100,000-$150,000 per year depending upon their discretionary spending onboard.  And no subsidy for those who don't have the necessary income   

I came across a great article about cruise ship retirement that covered the brass tracks of full-time cruise ship living.  It brought up some issues I hadn't thought of.  First, even if you are a US citizen, I'm not sure you are eligible for Medicare if you don't have a physical address on US soil.  Even if you do get Medicare, it won't cover any medical expenses on board or in a foreign country.  Second, no pets!  OK, that's fairly obvious, but it hadn't occurred to me.  Since I always envisioned a pup as part of my retirement, that'd be a big sacrifice.  And as @CuriousByNature points out, there are plenty of additional cruise ship expenses to consider.  Two of the full-timers live on luxury cruise ships where the monthly costs (don't forget the singles supplement!) far exceed the poshest assisted living centers.  Hey, good for them, but obviously very few of us have that option.  Even mid-range lines (Celebrity, Holland America) probably cost more than assisted-living.  Mainstream lines (Princess, Royal Caribbean) might cost about the same, if you can find a low singles supplement and can max out loyalty rewards.

One thing that sounded like less of an issue than I expected was medical care.  One of the full-timers is legally blind yet gets by just fine with the ship's doctor and seeing specialists in port.  If you're in reasonably good health, full-time cruising can work.  Also, there are residences at sea, cruise ships that sell condos for full-time living, but since most of them have yet to launch, not much information on them.  Another positive the article pointed out is that some cruise lines do allow you to bring a guest aboard for a day (i.e., escorts!).

If I could swing it financially, I'd love to live on a cruise ship, at least for a while, to be able to see the world in comfort, without having to bother with cooking, cleaning, or keeping up a house.  I just don't see doing it forever.  Either I would eventually tire of the vagabond life, or I would need more care than I could get on a cruise ship.

[OneFinger]

On 9/20/2021 at 9:15 PM, bigjoey said:

Moving into a senior facility is often not a matter of choice but physical necessity...

...There are good and bad facilities.  The good ones are great places to live with caring staff and can let people have a better quality of life than struggling in isolation in their own home.

My father lived in a continuum of care facility that ranged from independent living to assisted living to skilled nursing to “memory care.”  A resident got as much services as they wanted and needed...

I've rather absent from this site. That's because I was moving to an assisted in my home state (Utah). For me  it was difficult move both physically and emotionally. Have finally sold my Oregon condo and am  in Utah to stay.

This was a move of necessity. I found a great place where they provide all meals, housekeeping, laundry, etc. Last Monday I was diagnosed with Covid. My current condition is beyond the ability for me and my family to handle. Thank goodness I'm in a place like this.

[+ WilliamM]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:16 PM, Charlie said:

This is a very relevant topic for me, and none of the poll answers are appropriate.

When my mother was widowed at 75, she realized that she couldn't continue to take care of a big house and live alone, so she moved to an "age restricted" development in Florida, in which both of her younger sisters lived. Although she had her own small home, as her eyesight failed, she needed more and more help from one of her sisters. Then she had a mastectomy at 88, and I suggested that it was time for her to move to Philadelphia to live with my partner and me. But we both worked fulltime, and she was bored living in our home, with no social life. So at 94, she announced that she wanted to move to a continuum of care community connected to her church. She moved into an assisted living apartment there, where she could take part in activities and make friends with her peers. Eventually she became so disabled that she had to be moved into the nursing care facility there, where she was not happy--but then who is happy slowly dying anywhere?

My spouse and I have no children or family members who could take care of us if it became necessary, so when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's six years ago, we started looking at continuum of care communities for ourselves. We decided we really weren't ready to make that big a move yet, so we opted to move into an "active adult 55+" development instead. It has been a good choice for the past four years, but nothing stays the same permanently. We are both physically healthy now, but as his condition deteriorates, I am turning into pretty much a fulltime caregiver, and I am starting to think again about continuum of care communities, because at some time we will both need to be taken care of. I hope to God I don't live as long as my mother, but who knows?

We all would like to be independent until the very end of our lives, but one of the consequences of modern medicine and healthy lifestyles is that it is not realistic for many of us to just drop dead quickly while playing tennis or preparing a dinner for guests in our lovely home (or while having sex with a gorgeous escort). Finding the right place to live in our final years is neither easy nor fool-proof (COVID certainly taught us that), but it doesn't do any good to ignore the issue.

Most elderly don't wait that long to make such an important decision. Perhaps she was not happy because at the end, she had no choice which was partly her own fault. My mother was fine with moving into a nursing home as  long as it was near one of her kids 

[+ Charlie]

Of course she was unhappy because "she had no choice" --how may people are happy with not having a choice of where to live or how to die? But I don't see how it was "partly her fault." It wasn't her fault that she lived so long that by the time she was 98 she was almost blind and physically unable to take care of herself, and the facility was no longer able to take care of her at the assisted living level and had to move her into their nursing care section. She was mentally prepared to die long before the end, and was disappointed that it just wouldn't happen.

[+ WilliamM]

30 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Of course she was unhappy because "she had no choice" --how may people are happy with not having a choice of where to live or how to die? But I don't see how it was "partly her fault." It wasn't her fault that she lived so long that by the time she was 98 she was almost blind and physically unable to take care of herself, and the facility was no longer able to take care of her at the assisted living level and had to move her into their nursing care section. She was mentally prepared to die long before the end, and was disappointed that it just wouldn't happen.

I am suggesting  many people who make that decision at a younger age cope with it fairly well. Not everyone of course 😉  including members of my family 

Is that ok!

[+ Charlie]

16 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

I am suggesting  many people who make that decision at a younger age cope with it fairly well. Not everyone of course 😉  including members of my family 

Is that ok!

How many people "choose" to be bedridden and helpless at any age?

[+ nycman]

1 hour ago, WilliamM said:

By the way, I have not been diagnosed with Either medical issue

That you know of…..

I mean….if you have dementia and/or Alzheimer’s….do you really know it?

Grin

[Guest]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:33 AM, nycman said:

"Jump, jump, jump....."

 

You can take the punk out of the city, but....

Grin 

I feel a song coming on....

 

[Guest]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:36 AM, arnie said:

...

Staying in your own home depends on how much reliable community support you have.  For me that is my car keys.  I am able to fully manage my own home, cooking shopping and laundry.  But you have two options.  Either you eventually need help or you die before you do.  

...

 

It also depends on the layout of your property. My father lived in the Berkeley Hills, within walking distance of his office in the university. It was a wonderful idea when he bought it, probably when he was around 40, but it did require an almost 2-story climb to get to the front door. When he got a stroke, he couldn't climb those stairs, so he became a virtual prisoner in the house. If he needed to get to the hospital, it was an enormous expense, because if we called an ambulance crew, Medicare/insurance wouldn't pay for it (in order to qualify for Medicare to pay for an ambulance, you have to require services that can't be provided in a wheelchair transportation service: either you need oxygen, an IV, or are unable to be in a seated position). It took 2 years for my step-mother to realize they needed to move into a 3-bedroom condo with an elevator (down the street from the previous place). 

When I bought my property, I was careful to pick a property where I could live the longest in the event of this sort of disability. My house is on the top of a ridge in the Hollywood Hills, and the master bedroom, kitchen, living room, dining room, and laundry are all on the top/ground floor. I only need to go downstairs for the pool, gym, bar/party room, and the main guest bedroom/bathroom. I have long-term care insurance which will pay for attendants if I'm just in a wheelchair or something like that. If I need to be put away due to memory problems, it's the Belmont Village Hollywood, which is a short drive away. If I'm with someone he can easily visit while continuing to live in my current place. 

[+ tassojunior]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:15 PM, nycman said:

You do realize with your "masterplan" that you end up with crappy Medicare
housing/care and someone else has complete control over all of your assets.

That’s a an incredibly bad plan. And that’s assuming you had the "foresight" to 
irrevocably transfer all of your assets 5 years before, to avoid the "look back"
provision mentioned above. 

Scamming the system rarely ends well for people who didn’t grow up doing it. 

Not Medicare, Medicaid. You have to get rid of all assets to qualify for Medicaid because Medicare does not cover extended stays. It should. Forcing people to sell their homes their sole hope in life is to return to some day is cruel.

Edited September 27, 2021 by tassojunior

[+ WilliamM]

24 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Not Medicare, Medicaid. You have to get rid of all assets to qualify for Medicaid because Medicare does not cover extended stays. It should. Forcing people to sell their homes their sole hope in life is to return to some day is cruel.

That has been true for freaking decades. Quite unlikely to change now 

[Luv2play]

On 9/26/2021 at 12:47 PM, OneFinger said:

I've rather absent from this site. That's because I was moving to an assisted in my home state (Utah). For me  it was difficult move both physically and emotionally. Have finally sold my Oregon condo and am  in Utah to stay.

This was a move of necessity. I found a great place where they provide all meals, housekeeping, laundry, etc. Last Monday I was diagnosed with Covid. My current condition is beyond the ability for me and my family to handle. Thank goodness I'm in a place like this.

I'm very sorry to hear of your current circumstances having to deal with Covid along with your move to an assisted living residence which I take it you are now in. 

I don't know where you contracted the disease and maybe you don't either but I hope you get the treatment you require. All the best.

[OneFinger]

3 hours ago, Luv2play said:

...I don't know where you contracted the disease and maybe you don't either but I hope you get the treatment you require. All the best.

A week ago Friday I spent 6 hours in the ER after falling & hitting my head. I suspect I contracted it from the ER. FYI, I had both shots in Oregon before moving to Utah. My current condition is bad enough. I can believe how much worse it could be without being vaccinated.

[+ WilliamM]

10 minutes ago, OneFinger said:

A week ago Friday I spent 6 hours in the ER after falling & hitting my head. I suspect I contracted it from the ER. FYI, I had both shots in Oregon before moving to Utah. My current condition is bad enough. I can believe how much worse it could be without being vaccinated.

Thanks so much for posting this!

[+ E.T.Bass]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:04 AM, bigjoey said:

There are the beginnings of special facilities for gays:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/06/7-elder-communities-like-living-gayborhood/
 

Birds of a Feather looks nice, but not sure I could live at that elevation (>7000 ft).

 

[+ bigjoey]

10 minutes ago, E.T.Bass said:

Birds of a Feather looks nice, but not sure I could live at that elevation (>7000 ft).

 

It is really an independent living community where you would need to provide for your own care.  Yes, you can age-in-place but you will need to find your own help for housekeeping, meals, nursing, etc.