What is it Like to Have a Lesbian as a Teammate?

[lonely_john]

Ok, I already asked Google and searched this Forum and found no answers, so please help me.

I work at a medium size company where we are hiring for a new team member.

With the current push for diversity and inclusion, HR and C-suite have included a Chinese Lesbian in the shortlist.

I already had a not so pleasant experience with a White Lesbian supervisor who was too fastidious and territorial to work with.

She would only talk to me to discuss mistakes on my work and small talk would always lead to mean witty comments.

Am I being judgmental? If anyone here has wide experience working with lesbians and could say not all are the same would be great.

We are 5 who must make a choice by next week, so I would like to have enough time to build a case for my favourite candidate.

She's masculine (short hair, glasses, t-shirt) if that matters. In my experience people only show their good side on job interviews.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

So, you're judging someone you don't know by the actions of an entirely different person?

Yeah...  That sounds as ridiculous as it really is.  Everyone is different.  Everyone has their own vibe.

To discriminate against someone because they're openly lesbian is shitty.

 

If she's the best candidate for the job, she deserves the job.  

[+ keroscenefire]

Yeah, you're basically admitting to engaging in LGBTQ hiring discrimination. Thanks to Bostock v. Clayton County that is illegal nationwide and your company could be sued by this woman.

I've worked with some lesbians and some are great, and some are not...same with straight men, gay men, straight women, etc. Orientation has absolutely nothing to do with performance, which is why there are laws now to prevent discrimination of LGBTQ employees.

[jjkrkwood]

Probably no different than having a str8 woman as a teammate ?    Your bad experience with her was NOT due to her sexuality, but to her Personality.  She probably was just not a nice, good or pleasant person, although I dont know her and am solely going by your story here.  

Its always safe and easy to grasp for stereotypes to make excuses.... DONT do that.

And also consider, perhaps it was something about YOU that made the interaction with her unpleasant and difficult.   NEVER discount yourself as a cause.... Introspection is a trait of strength..... 

[rvwnsd]

40 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

Ok, I already asked Google and searched this Forum and found no answers, so please help me.

I work at a medium size company where we are hiring for a new team member.

With the current push for diversity and inclusion, HR and C-suite have included a Chinese Lesbian in the shortlist...

Are you sure the candidate was not included in the shortlist because she is qualified for the position?

40 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

...I already had a not so pleasant experience with a White Lesbian supervisor who was too fastidious and territorial to work with....

In what way is your former supervisor's behavior related to this job candidate? For that matter, how is your former supervisor's behavior a function of her sexual orientation? 

40 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

...Am I being judgmental?...

Yes, very. You are also allowing your bad experience with a different person to prejudice your assessment of this candidate. Would you like a hiring committee to consider your sexual orientation when assessing you for a job?

40 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

...She's masculine (short hair, glasses, t-shirt) if that matters....

It does not matter. As a member of a selection committee,  your role is to assess a candidate based on their qualifications and not their age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability status, gender, or physical appearance. I would be very surprised if your organization's human resources department has not already explained that to you during a training session or as part of its recruitment and hiring policy. 

21 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

...To discriminate against someone because they're openly lesbian is shitty.

It is also illegal.

 

 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

If I had started this, I might think about simply deleting this whole thing.

This is one of those times that a thread reveals more about the original poster than the subject in-question.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Benjamin_Nicholas

[lonely_john]

1 hour ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

So, you're judging someone you don't know by the actions of an entirely different person?

Yeah...  That sounds as ridiculous as it really is.  Everyone is different.  Everyone has their own vibe.

To discriminate against someone because they're openly lesbian is shitty.

If she's the best candidate for the job, she deserves the job.  

Thanks for not answering my question.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

9 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

Thanks for not answering my question.

... And thanks for dodging the real one

[lonely_john]

1 hour ago, keroscenefire said:

I've worked with some lesbians and some are great, and some are not.

Thanks @keroscenefire for providing some insights and trying to stay on topic. I know that sexual orientation doesn't correlate to performance. In this case I'm more curious about personality, values, that sort of thing. Those who are quick to judge me probably don't know that women and men have different psychological traits in work environments. There are wonderful women at my workplace but we all know that in general men perform better in positions of leadership and women as managers can be very difficult to work with, i.e.: The Queen Bee Syndrome.

This would be the 4th time I would be exposed to work with a lesbian. The 1st time was a co-worker on another team. She was overly aggressive, bad manners, and foul language all the time. On one occasion out of a disagreement she called me "fa**ot" over text message. I just decided to leave it at that to avoid the drama and moved on.

The 2nd time was my Canadian supervisor, and the 3rd time was a British girl also from, THANK GOD, another team. She is smart yes, but her way of speaking to you was not only masculine but she would always talk to you as if you were retarded, ending every phrase with "Do you understand what I'm saying?". During her last meeting with the team when asked for feedback about the meeting, and other team members' presentations, she said: "Yeah, I liked it, the sandwiches were good". She stayed just 3 more weeks.

It costs about $4K to hire new staff for a company. It costs $17K a year, in low morale and productivity, to hire a toxic employee. Both my Canadian supervisor and the British girl are no longer with the company. FIRED.

If anyone here has ACTUAL work experience with lesbians as team mates would be much appreciated. I probably already made my decision because you guys made me remember about those 2 other experiences. In any case, those social justice warriors can rest assured that the decision is not only mine to make so in the end the best candidate will get the job.

Edited August 7, 2021 by lonely_john

[lonely_john]

1 minute ago, Axiom2001 said:

Were you being judged and evaluated based on what you wore, how your hair was groomed, and (if you wear glasses)?  How so friggin' stereotypical and acutely judgmental.

First of all, thank you so much. You are not directly answering my question but at least you are not doing it in a judgmental way.

Second, you kidding right? Of course I was judged and evaluated on what I wore, grooming, etc. We all are. I think that's street knowledge at this point.

Probably I'm the one who is inserting the "lesbian" factor in the situation as I think the company has no clue. I stalked her on Social Media and found out.

They probably see her just as the Asian candidate. Unfortunately for her I've had these bad experiences. But again, the final decision is not mine.

[jjkrkwood]

 

If she's qualified for the job, letting your "personal" views cloud your decision is doing a disservice to her.   Could you possibly feel threatened by her ?   And how does the rest of the "jury" feel about her, not that it should sway your decision.... But the goal here is to find the best and strongest  team member that will make company goals obtainable... You dont need to kiki with her after work hours... and you are not building a sorority....

By your saying you "stalked her on social media"  is a bit creepy and makes it sound like you have some personal obsession with her that doesnt work in your favor...And your bad experiences are just that ...YOUR experiences..... Dont put that on someone else.

[+ Lucky]

You need to consider each individual as a person and not color them with the behavior of others. The Chinese lesbian may turn out to be your greatest ally.

[lonely_john]

38 minutes ago, jjkrkwood said:

By your saying you "stalked her on social media"  is a bit creepy

Again, you're kidding me right? Social Media footprints are a usual factor to consider in HR evaluation. What I make of it, it's of course up to me.

[jjkrkwood]

18 minutes ago, lonely_john said:

Again, you're kidding me right? Social Media footprints are a usual factor to consider in HR evaluation. What I make of it, it's of course up to me.

It was NOT your action, it was your choice of word "stalked" which clearly carries a different connotation.   You could have simply said "researched or investigated"....

So NO, I guess I'm NOT kidding you ...

[lonely_john]

11 minutes ago, jjkrkwood said:

It was NOT your action, it was your choice of word "stalked" which clearly carries a different connotation.   You could have simply said "researched or investigated".

[nate_sf]

1 hour ago, lonely_john said:

... we all know that in general men perform better in positions of leadership and women as managers can be very difficult to work with, i.e.: The Queen Bee Syndrome.

Ack! I'm not trying to be politically correct here, but this is just wrong. It's along the lines of saying that all short men suffer from the Napoleon Complex. These stereotypes are inaccurate and really damaging.

I've worked for many women, including my current job. I've also worked for many men. Of all of them, some have been great managers and leaders, and some have been not as great. But no relation to gender. I like my current boss, and while she is tough, that is her job as director. She is also fair and ethical, and she has our backs. She is part of the reason I have stayed in the job as long as I have.

My last supervisor was indeed fastidious and territorial to work with, so I know what that's like. He was a gay man. Take that for what it's worth. I would not attribute his qualities to other gay men; it was just him.

But to answer your question, yes I've worked with lesbians on a number of occasions including currently. The HR director for my organization is a lesbian, and we get along very well.

A few years ago I was on an interview panel, and my gaydar pinged on one of the women being interviewed. She reminded me of lesbian women I knew, and in her resume there was mention of playing on a women's softball team (and you know what that means, right?!?). But what was important was that she rocked the interview, and had the best skill sets of all of the interviewees. The panel was unanimous in choosing her. She has been an outstanding employee and is still with the organization. I never found out whether or not she is a lesbian; it doesn't and shouldn't matter.

I am sympathetic to your concerns, as working with a difficult employee can be awful. I've had my share, and know how toxic it can be and how hard it can be to dismiss a troublesome individual. But of the difficult individuals I've worked with, there has been no pattern regarding gender, race, or sexuality. Jerks come in all stripes.

A better approach to sussing out how someone might fit into the team is to check the references. While here in California and the US there are restrictions to what a past employer can say about a former employee, you can usually get a sense. That's at least a better approach than making judgements based on appearance or past experiences with others.

[+ José Soplanucas]

 

2 hours ago, lonely_john said:

Thanks for not answering my question

 

2 hours ago, lonely_john said:

You are not directly answering my question

 

"What is it Like to Have a Lesbian as a Teammate?"

Is that the question that you repeatedly claimed as not answered? How can you not see that your question cannot be answered without calling out its implicit bigotry? And then, when you explain your question in the OP body, you just add more. Several posters have explained clearly how wrong your mindset is.

However, you have not yet apologized. It is not about judging you or your moral character, but just about assessing this particular situation. Do you not see the mysoginy and lesbian phobia transpiring from your wording?

Amazing.

[jeezifonly]

@lonely_john

I had to look at the year this was posted, and it was indeed 2021. The first half of your handle now self-explanatory…
 

[+ WilliamM]

I sympathize a little A Black woman I knew casually for several years needed someone immediately. She saw my resume in a pile of resumes and  hired me without a job interview.

She was an excellent supervisor, and very smart. But she was also politically connected to the previous Administration here in Philadelphia. Unknowned for a while, she  also worked as a political consultant to non pro-profifs seeking funds for the city of Philadelphia. She thought she was untouchable.

She was fired and rightly so. I appreciated her hiring me for a job I liked so much. But her arrogent manner was annoying because I had no political connection and never wanted one.

[lonely_john]

5 minutes ago, jeezifonly said:

The first half of your handle now self-explanatory.

Oh come on, this sad attempt to undermine my POV is already old and boring. No pun intended 😜

So far only the responses of @keroscenefire and @nate_sf have been enlightening, almost making me reconsider.

I was actually expecting something better @jeezifonly but again, I was probably expecting too much from you.

[jeezifonly]

Just now, lonely_john said:

Oh come on, this sad attempt to undermine my POV is already old and boring. No pun intended 😜

So far only the responses of @keroscenefire and @nate_sf have been enlightening, almost making me reconsider.

I was actually expecting something better @jeezifonly but again, I was probably expecting too much from you.

A serious question will get a considered response.
Again, it’s 2021. 

So, to take your original question more seriously:

Based on 40 years experience it’s fucking awesome.

[lonely_john]

1 minute ago, jeezifonly said:

Based on 40 years experience it’s fucking awesome.

Thank you so much, very much appreciated.

[BSR]

6 hours ago, Benjamin_Nicholas said:

So, you're judging someone you don't know by the actions of an entirely different person?

Yeah...  That sounds as ridiculous as it really is.  Everyone is different.  Everyone has their own vibe.

To discriminate against someone because they're openly lesbian is shitty.

 

If she's the best candidate for the job, she deserves the job.  

I agree with this one thousand percent.

Moderator’s Note: Please no politics in the Lounge. 

[Deadlift1]

I've worked with 3 lesbians at different positions.  I did not have a problem.  All 3 were very comfortable with themselves.  But I know the type with the abrasive personality that you mentioned. Sometimes they go overboard by trying to be one of the boys.  But her personality could be any sexual identity.

[+ FreshFluff]

14 hours ago, jjkrkwood said:

Probably no different than having a str8 woman as a teammate ?    Your bad experience with her was NOT due to her sexuality, but to her Personality.  She probably was just not a nice, good or pleasant person, although I dont know her and am solely going by your story here.  

This. And if you’re going to do that, why judge her according to your experience with another lesbian vs, say, another Chinese person, another 30something woman,

The best thing you can do is treat her as an individual and try to see past her best foot forward routine. Better yet, call her references and possibly others you know who have worked with her. They won’t say anything negative but if you listen, you can read a lot between the lines. 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by FreshFluff