Negotiating

[Guest NYCMuscBoy]

I thought I'd open this topic, which is a touchy one for me. There's a rather insulting post in the Lounge, which calls most escorts "Glorified Street Hustlers." That slap aside, he seemed proud of his supposed ability to negotiate a escort/"Glorified Street Hustler" down -- 40 percent, or so he claims.

 

In general, I escort only when I need the dough, but even so I will often end a discussion the minute a client attempts to negotiate me down. I recently sent the following note in an Instant Message exchange: "I'm not something you found in the flea market! My fee is my fee. Good luck."

 

I was wondering what other people's thoughts are on this.

 

I find that when I escort, a large percentage of my fee is simply due to the bullsh-t I have to wade through to set up an appointment. So many BS-ers out there. If it were a simple and respectful process, I'd definitely charge a good deal less, but unfortunately there seem to be about 20 energy-draining false starts before a connection is made. I can't begin to catalog the gymnastics I have been through in the past, or else steam will begin pouring out of my ears.

 

And there are, of course, those who claim they are too poor. For them my heart goes out and I wish them luck. But in my life there are plenty of things I would like which I can't afford either, so while I sympathize, I also realize they can make do just fine without me. And maybe there's someone, um, "more affordable" out there.

 

On the other, other, other hand -- I have once or twice in my past lowered my fee for someone asking for a specialized, minor service which was a little less than the typical escort situation. But that was only when the phone company was coming out with the cord clippers.

 

What are your opinions? Escorts? Clients?

 

Or should I say, "Glorified Street Hustlers? Johns?"

[Rod Hagen]

I find escorting to be the least time-consuming or labor intensive of anyother occupation I have filled.

 

Nevertheless, I stick to my rates and demand allows it. If I lost enough business because of my fees, I would be forced to lower them.

 

I really don't care if people think it's unfair for an escort to charge $300/hour or $2000 for an overnight. Our rates reflect the most we receive regularly. Deal with it or move on to someone more "reasonable".

 

As for haggling, leave that for the markets of Tangiers.

 

Kisses,

 

-Hagen

[Guest hunklover]

Frankly, I don't see why you guys get so uptight about someone tring to obtain a quality escort for a few dollars less. I'm one of those "poor" people who depends on escorts to fulfill my physical and emotional needs. Actually, I'm not poor, but I just don't make the money it takes to hire the more expensive guys. In fact, in my situation, I probably shouldn't be hirng escorts....period. But, like I said, I have my "needs" and I set aside money to take care of those "needs".

 

I usually don't try to negotiate with escorts. If a guy's too expensive I simply don't call him, because I know some guys get a little irate when you try to get them to lower their price. However, if I call someone who doesn't advertise his price, I may ask if he would consider a lower rate if it's someone who I think seems really "hot". You can't blame a guy for trying if he's really attracted to a guy. What's the harm in that? If a guy says he won't lower his rate I respect that and thank him for his time.

 

Several years ago in Vegas I was in the last night of my stay and feeling pretty "horny". Someone recommended a young, cute looking, muscular guy who was supposed to be pretty hot. My cash flow was low, mainly due to some, rip-off, escort agency and my ignorance, so I couldn't afford the price he quoted over the phone. I told him what I could afford and he agreed to see me. More than likely, he probably didn't have anything to do that night. He was one hot, little hunk,and became a regular I now see when I travel to Vegas. This is a guy who is also a regular with some of the high rollers and big, name stars. He didn't need to help me out, but he did, and I'll always be thankful to him for that.

 

I guess I can see an escort getting a little "put-off" by someone who can't take a hint and keeps trying to get the fee lowered,other-wise who can blame a guy for trying, as long as he doesn't get obnoxious about it?

 

Escorts provide an important service to men like me, who for one reason or another have to stay in the closet, or can't seem to find someone they are attracted to, to have a relationship with.

I don't care how many guys contact an escort, because they think he's someting "special", the escort should feel flattered and not take these individuals foregranted. If a potential client should not be able to afford a certain escort and attempts to see if he's willing to lower his price, the escort should simply inform the guy that he doesn't lower his prices, and not take it as an insult. I mean, so many of the escorts, out there, are georgeous guys, men like me dream about spending time with, it's worth taking a chance to try to get him to lower his price if it means being able to hire the guy.

 

I hope this is of some substance, and I'm not just running on and on about nothing. It's just how I feel.

[Guest albinorat]

Oh, hooboy's site is terrible. I shouldn't be adding my two cents but here I am!!!

 

I am not rich or even well-off but I never try to negotiate someone down. If their fee is too high I don't contact them. I go by how much I think I want someone and how things are going for me financially. I have had some periods where I simply couldn't afford it and did without, though in one case I had a great regular and am sorry I didn't take odd jobs scrubbing floors to keep seeing him. He did offer to come over for less and did once. But I felt *queer* about that; and anyway, *less* was still a lot.

 

I assume that for escorts this is work and a quoted fee is what they really can get and feel they deserve. In doing that I also have no shame about asking for what I want frankly. I won't pay if I'm not sure they're going to make a *best effort* to deliver. Perhaps my tightwadedness comes out in my refusing to do anything with an escort until we've talked for ten minutes at my place. If the vibe is wrong I don't pay (though if they've travelled I'll offer to cover transportation). I don't start something and stop, disappointed. I terminate the transaction immediately. But if we get into something I pay even if the end result is -- well -- limp.

 

I think we've all been burned sometimes (escorts too). And I think we all have strategies to try and cut our losses -- a high fee is one way to weed out the phonies (though potentially good business can be weeded out too).

 

For what it's worth I don't believe the guy who posted he can negotiate down by 40%. Maybe on a stormy night in dead winter in the middle of nowhere with an escort down on his luck. But not in a place where popular escorts get frequent calls and price isn't much of an issue. Frankly, I would wonder about an escort who offered a discount (it's a street hustler's trick. Say you want a low fee, then when you're back at the john's place start trying to extort more and more).

 

I must say the one escort I've had who cost what for me is a small fortune, was, all things considered worth it. Because of his fee (I felt) he really worked hard to see I had a good time. And I did.

 

I have no problem being a *john*. I've been one for most of my life (oh! the cost of horniness conjoined with homeliness!). I don't feel demeaned at all paying for it. But I would feel demeaned haggling.

 

Al

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

I've already weighed in on this topic in previous threads so I won't repeat here except to say that I generally agree with Hagen...

 

The point I want to make is farside's contention that a great many if not most escorts are glorified hustlers (presumably from his own experience) and his ability to often nogociate the price down by as much as 40%. Maybe there is a connection between these two facts of farside's world??

[Guest fixtopia]

>I thought I'd open this topic,

>which is a touchy one

>for me. There's a rather

>insulting post in the Lounge,

>which calls most escorts "Glorified

>Street Hustlers." That slap aside,

>he seemed proud of his

>supposed ability to negotiate a

>escort/"Glorified Street Hustler" down --

>40 percent, or so he

>claims.

>

>In general, I escort only when

>I need the dough, but

>even so I will often

>end a discussion the minute

>a client attempts to negotiate

>me down. I recently sent

>the following note in an

>Instant Message exchange: "I'm not

>something you found in the

>flea market! My fee is

>my fee. Good luck."

You would not be the type of escort I would hire yet assuming for a moment you were, if I felt your fee was too high I would ask you to be flexible... if you can't you don't get my business.

>

>I was wondering what other people's

>thoughts are on this.

>

>I find that when I escort,

>a large percentage of my

>fee is simply due to

>the bullsh-t I have to

>wade through to set up

>an appointment. So many BS-ers

>out there. If it were

>a simple and respectful process,

>I'd definitely charge a good

>deal less, but unfortunately there

>seem to be about 20

>energy-draining false starts before a

>connection is made. I can't

>begin to catalog the gymnastics

>I have been through in

>the past, or else steam

>will begin pouring out of

>my ears.

You seem as if you're in the wrong business. You know that old saying "if you can't handle the heat in the kitchen then get out." You should hear some of the BS us clients put up with from escorts before we can find one that actually can even show up.

>

>And there are, of course, those

>who claim they are too

>poor. For them my heart

>goes out and I wish

>them luck. But in my

>life there are plenty of

>things I would like which

>I can't afford either, so

>while I sympathize, I also

>realize they can make do

>just fine without me. And

>maybe there's someone, um, "more

>affordable" out there.

Reasonable yet again more affordable doesn't mean less quality. Sometimes it just means less ego.

>

>On the other, other, other hand

>-- I have once or

>twice in my past lowered

>my fee for someone asking

>for a specialized, minor service

>which was a little less

>than the typical escort situation.

>But that was only when

>the phone company was coming

>out with the cord clippers.

Despiration makes us all do things we rather not.

>

>

>What are your opinions? Escorts? Clients?

>

>

>Or should I say, "Glorified Street

>Hustlers? Johns?"

The words all have the same meaning, don't they?

[Guest Nice Guy]

NYMusBoy

It seems that early on in my career, I did try and negoiate a disount. I realized that I had to sample the product and look for it to go on sale at a later date. My point being, I have asked for and I have been offered discounts or lets say "adjustments" with my regulars guys. If WE click, we click!

But I believe it WAS Mr. Hagen who first refused to discount to me on my attempt at our first meeting. After our phone conversation, I really didn't care if I received a token discount or not. I wanted to meet the Man. And if you recall Rod, we had one hell of an evening in PS. I digress....

NYMus.. You seem to be setting your prices like you ran a K-mart, Marking up the product to cover the cost of shoplifters!!

As the other gentlemen remarked, I believe it is the cost of doing business. I don't think you have many regulars. I don't know one pro who does not discount or reduce his fee for a long time client. Especially if he, the escort, enjoys the "johns" company. I have only been so enticed by one escort that I never questioned his fee, and he was the most I have ever paid for in a overnight. HE finally gave me a token discount, which I excepted, but in all fairness to him, I would have kept on paying his full fee, I enjoyed his company so much. This is a biz, I understand that VERY well, but product must be accompanied by good service and customer satisfaction, or you will be out of biz in no time.

NG

[Guest safesane]

> He was one

>hot, little hunk,and became a

>regular I now see when

>I travel to Vegas.

 

 

Do you mind sharing some contact info regarding this "hunk" in Vegas?

[NY Observer]

Here's my two (or three) cents.

 

I personally tend not to contact guys who charge more than I would be willing to pay. With the great service that Hooboy has provided, many (too many) of the guys have raised their rates, but I am unwilling (for the most part) to pursue. For me, 300 bucks is way too high, but that's just my opinion; if someone will pay it, go for it.

 

Once I have "weeded out" the ones who are out of my price range, I don't negotiate. I respect the rate, just as I would a dentist or a hair stylist. If I don't like what they have to offer, there are others out there.

 

That having been said, I would agree with the sentiment that many escorts can and do discount their regulars. I think that is appropriate (but not required) behavior. It's much easier and less stressful for an escort to deal with a regular he likes. You don't have to worry about preferences, no shows, uncleanliness and all the other things that are bothersome. It's so much easier to keep a good client coming back and back and back than it is to cultivate a new client. If a person liked you on the first and second and third visits, they are likely to like you on the fourth. Of course, you may ask why lower the rates then? Well, some of us clients don't have unlimited funds and have to make decisions. It's a lot easier for me to see someone I like often at a discounted rate, than to see him less often at a higher rate. When all is said and done, I probably spend more in total on the escort who has reduced his rate because I see him more often. I realize many of you have no worry about the flow of customers/clients banging down your doorsteps, but I think some actually enjoy the company of someone nice, even at the lower rate

[Will]

As usual, I have an opinion -- actually, several opinions -- about this. In no particular order, here they are:

 

1. First, I have to confess that I intensely dislike money, except having and spending it. Otherwise, I don't like to talk about it, plan about it, deal with it, even touch it. I also don't like to be around people who talk about money. That's probably peculiar of me, but that's the way I am.

 

2. When I engage lawyers or doctors, I do not attempt to negotiate the fee because I assume that they have established fixed rates for their services, and their services are what I want. Likewise, I regard escorts as professionals who charge a fee for their time. It is up to them, not me, to decide what price they will put on it. Likewise, it is up to me, not them, to decide whether I think they're worth the price. Even to raise the question of negotiating seems demeaning to me and to the escort whose services I am seeking. I just wouldn't do it.

 

3. Before we meet, however, I ask the escort to tell me precisely how much money he will expect at the end of our time together. I make sure that I have it with me, in cash, and neither he nor I ever mentions the subject again.

 

4. When it comes time to pay him, I put the money in his pants pocket while he is in the bathroom. Then I go into the bathroom when he comes out. We kiss goodbye without either or us even seeing the other touch cash.

 

5. That's the way I like it. I make no apologies, no excuses, and I do not say that others should deal with paying escorts the way I do. It's my experience, however, that all men like to be treated as though they were gentlemen; on occasion, in fact, the fantasy even effects the reality.

 

6. Finally, I, too, have noticed that M4M seems to have given some of these boys the notion that the "standard" rate is set by the escorts in highest demand. That's like a hack lawyer thinking that he can charge top dollar just because the big, prestigious firms do it. Some of the less established escorts could probably make a great deal more money if they started at a lower rate and worked themselves up. Why pay a green rookie what you pay a reliable home-run hitter? Or, to put it in the language of purebred dog breeders like me, nobody charges a fee for an unproven stud that is anywhere close to what he charges for a stud who's demonstrated his worth time and time again!

[Guest regulation]

As a businessman I care about the price of all of the goods and services I purchase. That includes escorts. I've found that their prices are often negotiable, and I have on several occasions negotiated a significantly lower rate. Negotiating is a task that everyone in business must perform from time to time. As with many other types of tasks, those who don't enjoy it usually aren't very good at it. I do enjoy it, and I recommend it for the satisfaction one feels at the conclusion of a successful negotiation as much as for the rather modest amounts of money one saves in the escort situation.

 

The type of situation I don't enjoy is one in which the seller has the attitude, "If you have to ask how much it is, you probably can't afford it." I've found that this sort of attitude is usually meant to discourage people from looking too closely at the value of what they are buying, as evidence the recent prosecutions of Christie's and Sotheby's for price fixing.

[Bilbo]

Discounts for regulars is a very good thing, so long as you don't make the discount for more than 20% or so, or else you might start resenting it, resenting clients whom you still enjoy in many other ways. 40%?? Remember, if everything goes the way everybody wants it to, this might go on for years.

And what constitutes a regular? I have had clients who thought of themselves as my regulars who only come by once or twice a year, even though they live in town. Dream on, Junie Moon. What I did as an escort, and still do as a masseur, is to establish a time period, in my case as a masseur two weeks (Partly because after that the results of the first massage are gone and I am starting on their body as if from scratch. Escorts would probably use a longer time period, say a month?), and then establish a fixed amount for the discount if they come back within that time period. I use $10 rather than any percentage, and in the case of my one hour massage, that is 20%. (In the case of my Tarot card readings, that is 40%, but I am still establishing that business. And that gives my clients another out, they can maintain their discounts with a lower priced service as I allow any of my services to fulfil their regularship requirements. Perhaps that would be akin to an escort agreeing to a smaller amount of money for just a dinner out without sex?)

There I go again! Too wordy as usual.

[Guest regulation]

>

>I, too am a businessman and

>I negotiate daily. I

>feel what you are saying,

>but I have found that

>dealing with escorts you are

>negotiating with not so much

>a commodity, but an emotion

>and I have found that

>when you negotiate down, the

>human in the escort may

>not perform to your expectations,

>thus creating false chemistry and

>thus a less than perfect

>encounter resulting in a negative

>review, which is probably unwarranted.

>

 

Sorry, but I don't agree at all. If the result of your negotiation is to leave bad feelings that reduce the quality of your experience, you simply haven't done a good job of negotiating. A successful negotiation is one in which BOTH sides feel they've made a good bargain. Saying you can't achieve that is like saying you want to compete in the pole vault but you can't carry the pole and run at the same time.

 

>

>Give them what they ask for

>or find one you can

>afford. We're not dealing

>in real estate here.

 

 

I can afford just about anybody. And the reason I'm in that position is that I'm always concerned with the prices I pay and the value I receive. People who can't stand the idea of discussing the price of the goods or services they buy or sell really shouldn't be in business. That's why actors and artists have agents and managers.

 

 

>And if they overprice themselves

>for the marketplace, so be

>it. If no one

>pays their price, they will

>eventually lower it. Supply

>and demand.

>

>Negotiate with an escort? No.

> Then he doesn't understand

>the marketplace.

>

 

Let's make a deal. You handle your dealings with escorts in any way you see fit, and I'll do the same. Sound fair?

[N.N.]

HooBoy wrote

 

>I feel what you are saying, but I have found that dealing

>with escorts you are negotiating with not so much a

>commodity, but an emotion and I have found that when you

>negotiate down, the human in the escort may not perform

>to your expectations, thus creating false chemistry and

>thus a less than perfect encounter resulting in a

>negative review, which is probably unwarranted.

 

I expect anyone charging $100+ per hour to conduct

themselves as a professional. If they agree to a price,

I expect them to deliver the goods. If they are unhappy

with the price, they shouldn't have agreed to it.

 

HooBoy's comment is a reasonable piece of advice for avoiding disappointment in a world where many escorts are less than

professional. But that doesn't mean escorts are justified

in working this way.

 

One escort recently told me he'd give me a discount because

he liked my stats. He said this on his own initiative; I

hadn't tried to negotiate at all. However, he didn't work

very hard when I saw him, and told me afterwards that it

would cost more if I wanted him to give a spirited

performance next time. That kind of hustling annoyed me

enough that I wasn't interested in hiring him again, even

though the higher price he quoted was within my budget.

[Guest MrB]

Very funny. Some of us fly to Vegas for work--it's ALL expenses, except, sadly, the gambling and... the escorts.

[Guest NYCMuscBoy]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-00 AT 05:25PM (EST)[p]Actually, I have some wonderful regulars. And I don't charge an outrageous fee -- I should have mentioned that above -- so to be asked to further discount is frustrating. And I've been escorting for four years.

[Guest NYCMuscBoy]

I have never seen more than one client a day, ever, because I want to run a quality business, and also because my income does not derive solely from escorting. I ALWAYS try to show my client a great time, and I'd say in nearly all cases, I have.

 

I hate money, too. The "slipping the money in the pocket" deal works great for me as well. I'm not cynical enough to count it in front of the client, and I've certainly never tried to raise my rates suddenly. And it's funny: I've never been shorted.

[Guest regulation]

>

>Obviously, you are a better negotiator

>than I am; certainly a

>better businessman, else you wouldn't

>take on a site like

>this and lose money.

>

 

Most people don't make money on their hobbies. If you'd like to take up a hobby on which you CAN make money, I'd suggest antiques. I've done pretty well there.

 

 

>As far as your "deal" -

>I figured that was in

>place already anyway. I

>was just responding to YOUR

>post - most of which

>I find very interesting; this

>one is not an exception.

>

>

 

Thanks for those kind words. I hope you will find that my future posts merit the same.

 

 

 

>Thanks for writing and good luck

>getting Scott Matthews for $50

>and making him feel good

>about it. :-)

>

 

Isn't he a porn actor? I seldom hire such guys because I don't think one should pay a higher price for the same services simply because the person providing them has appeared in a video.

 

Truly, the two escorts whom I have seen more than any others have both been guys with whom I negotiated discounted fees at the outset. Both got a substantial amount of business from me and I believe we all ended up satisfied that we had made a good deal. May you find the same.

[Will]

How can you be approached professionally? You sound like a true escort, in every sense of the word!

[NY Observer]

I'd go more than 50 on Scott Matthews

 

Heck, he's probably worth what he asks.

[Guest Jake]

You are one interesting dude, reggie. I can only assume your negotiating style with an escort is very different from your handling of a poster who dares disagree with you.

[Guest regulation]

>You are one interesting dude, reggie.

> I can only assume

>your negotiating style with an

>escort is very different from

>your handling of a poster

>who dares disagree with you.

>

 

 

You're not one to talk, Jake. Do you think NYMuscBoy, the author of this thread, remembers all the nasty names you called him because he once dared to disagree with you on a thread concerning Quinte? I remember them. Would you like me to quote one or two of them?

[Guest hunklover]

>

>> He was one

>>hot, little hunk,and became a

>>regular I now see when

>>I travel to Vegas.

>

>

>Do you mind sharing some contact

>info regarding this "hunk" in

>Vegas?

 

Safesane,

Sorry, he's presently semi-retired from escorting. I believe he still only sees a few of his old, regular clients from time to time. If he ever comes out of retirement I'll let you know.

[Guest hunklover]

>Good grief, you can afford to

>fly to Vegas (I assume

>to gamble) yet you say

>you cannot afford an escort?

>

>

>I'd say stay away from the

>slots or the tables and

>use that money to satisfy

>your needs.

>

>Just my snippy opinion.

>

>HooBoy

>Email: HooBoy@male4malescorts.com

HooBoy,

My flight to Vegas usually costs less than it costs to hire a quality, Vegas escort for one hour. As far as gambling goes, I usually spend no more than $20 or $30 dollars a day on slots. Most of my money does go to satify my "needs". I mainly like Vegas for the sites,its atmosphere, and the companionship of a hot escort. My Vegas trip is where I can take several days out of the year, be myself, and fulfill my fantasies.

[Guest curious]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-00 AT 00:22AM (EST)[p]Why don't we start escortpriceline.com

 

Or list a night with Matt on ebay-- the bidding starts at....