Boring old Florida

[jeezifonly]

Boring in Ft. Lauderdale

Are there any geological nerds here who can change my perception that this is a preposterously dangerous idea for this location?

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Considering the one in Vegas is basically just PR for Tesla and not anything special, I don't see why more need to be built.

[rvwnsd]

Elon Musk also proposed a high-speed transit tunnel for Chicago but it went nowhere. I'm guessing his desire to use self-driving cars instead of the rapid transit vehicles required for a large cities contributed to its demise.

[+ DynamicUno]

As I understand it (as a lay person), south Florida's geology is generally stable and not prone to the kind of dangerous sinkhole formation common in other parts of the state.  They'd have to make sure it is well sealed and built with well designed entrances to avoid flooding or damage to the aquifers.  I'd be more concerned in parts further north and inland.

But, just because they could build the tunnel there, it doesn't mean they should.  Firstly, running Tesla's in a tube is a preposterously low capacity solution, and even their idea of self driving 'pods' is little better.  Secondly, if the goal is automation, rail based systems using proven tech can do the job.  There's a reason the local transit authorities have opted for at-grade or elevated rail rather than going underground.

The Vegas loop should deflate the enthusasm to replicate this gadgetbahn concept in other places.

[Luv2play]

I would have thought that an elevated railway like the one in Vancouver or what they had at Expo 67 in Montreal over half a century ago would be the way to go. With Florida's mild climate and the wonderful views, it would be a popular transportation option to get from the downtown to the beaches. Of course they would need to find a route that would be practical and acceptable and that may be the problem. As I recal the area is mostly residential, not industrial or too commercial except along streets like Las Olas.

[+ Lucky]

Expo 67! I was there!

[+ WilliamM]

On 7/7/2021 at 8:59 PM, jeezifonly said:

Boring in Ft. Lauderdale

Are there any geological nerds here who can change my perception that this is a preposterously dangerous idea for this location?

Lordy!

[cany10011]

I believe the Brightline is a light rail/ train system servicing West Palm to Miami. Took it last year pre pandemic from a meeting in West Palm to South Beach/Miami.  It seemed relatively user friendly and was quite convenient. 

 

[+ tassojunior]

I think the tunnel with pods idea is a good idea for integrating with the future when hopefully all cars will be electric and self-driving and can enter the tunnels. For now lines of Teslas probably have more capacity per hour than even rail which would require gigantic infrastructure investment and is environmentally unfriendly and requires feeder transportation. The little tunnels aren't stunning or glamorous but they get the job done in a fast inexpensive way with no disruption, even though limestone in South Florida is very hard to drill through. I can easily see how a quick connection from the business/Las Olas/arts area to the beach would be a good idea if it's not visible nor disrupts Las Olas for years for construction. Too many of these transit projects kill an area for years for construction.  

We've been drilling tunnels all over DC the past few years with a similar drill. They're part of flood control to get tunnels for rain water. Except for the one entrance  they've been pretty non-disruptive.

Edited July 9, 2021 by tassojunior

[+ DynamicUno]

3 hours ago, cany10011 said:

I believe the Brightline is a light rail/ train system servicing West Palm to Miami. Took it last year pre pandemic from a meeting in West Palm to South Beach/Miami.  It seemed relatively user friendly and was quite convenient. 

 

Brightline is actually a full fat rail project, though it's been limited to the Miami-WPB leg up until now.  It kind of duplicated Tri-Rail's route but with far fewer stops.  They've been building an expansion up the FEC right-of-way and over to the station at Orlando International, and claming a 3 hour planned trip time (better than you can likely do by car given the usual I-95/Turnpike traffic). There's also a proposal to extend it to Tampa, though that's still on the drawing board.  They're using modern, American built, Siemens trainsets (Charger loco and Venture railcar equipment).  I'm looking forward to seeing how well it performs when they open it next year, since I can see taking a vacation in one city but easily taking a day or overnight excursion for a change of pace. 

Incidentally, Amtrak is also preparing to roll out new trainsets for their midwest services using the Venture cars in the near future.  They look like a nice upgrade for taking a weekend trip to Chicago.

But for the Las Olas loop idea, if TBC replicates the 'Teslas in a Tube' concept they produced for the LVCC, it's going to be a low capacity curiosity instead of a real transport asset.  More like the Detroit Peoplemover than anything else.  I hope Fort Lauderdale passes on it.

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by DynamicUno
changing ambigous pronouns and cleaning up run-on sentences

[Luv2play]

5 hours ago, cany10011 said:

I believe the Brightline is a light rail/ train system servicing West Palm to Miami. Took it last year pre pandemic from a meeting in West Palm to South Beach/Miami.  It seemed relatively user friendly and was quite convenient. 

 

I think intercity and intracity are two completely different transportation modes.

[paulsf]

I also hope Ft.Lauderdale passes on it.   Or passes on the costs to tourists instead of local tax payers.  City Commissioners have been trying to get some sort of light rail but residents finally won out after years of back and forth.   So now they are going to try to push this tunnel system that will only be used by tourists.   Residents are already forming opposition groups. 
time will tell.   

[arnie]

Everybody wants the perfect and disses the good.  Traffic congestion is a problem, so where do you put any form of mass transit.  There is no room by in large for surface. I live in Vegas and the monorail is a visual blight, just because it is behind the hotels in their service area keeps it out of the view of most, but it is therefore by in large useless except for convention travel.   The Casinos KO'ed it down the middle of the Strip where it might have actually worked.  So underground is the remaining option.  It does remain to be seen how viable the Musk system really is but he does seem to have overcome the biggest obstacle to it which is the prohibitive cost of tunneling.   In Vegas, Musk is digging the tubes but if a hotel wants a station, they have to pay for it.  So we will see.  Also in Vegas his plan is for point to point travel, direct from one place to the other, not a rail type system of all the stops in-route.  But if you are a tourist, do you want to spend an hour at 10AM sitting in traffic while all the good parking spots are being taken?