Who Will Own and Run The Forum?

[+ MysticMenace]

All of this means that it is time to decide who will own and run this place

 

Thanks to the great work of @Orin, @RadioRob, @JEC and "Team Washington" that we are still being able to enjoy the forum. I do want to make sure that @Orin's question is being answered - who will own and run the forum?

 

I think for the forum to collectively get to this answer - we might need the following data points:

• what specific accountabilities and responsibilities are required to "own and run the forum"
  
• what type of organizational structure, including transition and succession planning, does there need to be in place to sustainably run the forum? is said structure defined with people aligned to it?
  

there are certainly other factors - such as how do we continuously fund to support this forum - that need to be answered, but at the least, if we have answers to those two bullets, we can have transparency into what "the job" entails and can solicit volunteers who would want to step in and step up to the responsibility.

 

UPDATE - REPLY TO THIS POST IF YOU WOULD LIKE YOUR NAME ADDED TO OR REMOVED FROM THE TABLE BELOW

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TH]Financier[/TH]

[TH]Site Maintenance / Operations[/TH]

[TH]Moderators[/TH]

[TH]Steering Committee[/TH]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]@Coolwave35 - volunteer[/TD]

[TD]@RadioRob - volunteer

@builder boy - volunteer

@Cooper - nominated

@savantsav - volunteer[/TD]

[TD]@rvwnsd - volunteer[/TD]

[TD]@rvwnsd - volunteer[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]

• pays the bills
  

[/TD]

 

[TD]

• 
  

[/TD]

 

[TD]

• 
  

[/TD]

 

[TD]

• [requisite - representation across stakeholders]
  
• 
  

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited April 29, 2021 by JoeMendoza

[+ Orin]

@Cooper -- should this thread be pinned?

[RyanDean]

As tediously corporate as this sounds, I would strongly suggest that those folks interested in and/or informed about the particulars of the Forum's operation might be in the best position to develop some kind of proposal -- so, yes, I'm suggesting an exploratory/subcommittee (sorry) to develop a plan and then to share that with Forum folks interested in pitching in (with labor or cash)...

[+ sniper]

I would suggest that the admins of the board, as the people Daddy put his trust in, should probably be the final decisionmakers, unless they for whatever reason don't want the task. Not saying others shouldn't feel free to suggest stuff, but too many cooks and all that.

[RadioRob]

I am willing to help maintain the server and keep the site online. Right now this site is running on my personal server. Long term it will be important to move it into its own island separate from my personal situation as I refuse to have the same thing that happened to this site twice previously occur again if something were to happen to me. I've spoken with Orin about this and have outlined some ideas around how to document what is needed for someone to take on "survivorship". This will include documenting all critical service logins (such as for the Xenforo software, for the domain hosting, for the domain DNS, etc)... how to access it, etc. It will also include having the site being self-contained where it's separate from the administrator personally. This role can also be shared with any other sysadmin who is comfortable with linux system administration and web services (apache, mysql, php, etc.)

 

What I do *not* want is to have any direct control over any sort of money. In the interest of this being a community, it would not be good for me to have control over everything. Whomever is going to be in charge of the money can make payments on behalf of the site, etc. I personally see it as a checks/balances thing. I'm NOT Daddy/Hooboy and I would never try to impose myself as such. Instead my goal is to simply do my part as a member of the community to ensure the site survives.

[+ Coolwave35]

I am willing to help maintain the server and keep the site online. Right now this site is running on my personal server. Long term it will be important to move it into its own island separate from my personal situation as I refuse to have the same thing that happened to this site twice previously occur again if something were to happen to me. I've spoken with Orin about this and have outlined some ideas around how to document what is needed for someone to take on "survivorship". This will include documenting all critical service logins (such as for the Xenforo software, for the domain hosting, for the domain DNS, etc)... how to access it, etc. It will also include having the site being self-contained where it's separate from the administrator personally. This role can also be shared with any other sysadmin who is comfortable with linux system administration and web services (apache, mysql, php, etc.)

 

What I do *not* want is to have any direct control over any sort of money. In the interest of this being a community, it would not be good for me to have control over everything. Whomever is going to be in charge of the money can make payments on behalf of the site, etc. I personally see it as a checks/balances thing. I'm NOT Daddy/Hooboy and I would never try to impose myself as such. Instead my goal is to simply do my part as a member of the community to ensure the site survives.

If you want to handle the technical stuff for the forum, I’ll pay the bills. What do you say?

[RadioRob]

If you want to handle the technical stuff for the forum, I’ll pay the bills. What do you say?

Works for me. Let's coordinate with Orin and Cooper, etc. That way there is a consensus. In a day or so when things settle down, I'll be able to pull together a list of estimated costs anticipated with running the site. This includes keeping the Xenforo license updated, hosting, DNS, extra security stuff (since I do cyber security for a living), etc.

[+ MysticMenace]

Thanks @RadioRob and @Coolwave35 - awesome for you both to step in to be responsible for server maintenance and finances, respectively.

 

@Orin, @Cooper - with the 2 roles filled by @RadioRob and @Coolwave35 - does this answer the above question? or are we still missing certain major responsibilities that need to be assigned?

[Kippy]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm feeling better already! Thanks, guys for all the work on behalf of all Forum users. Your talent and effort are much appreciated.

 

Kipp

[builder boy]

If you want to handle the technical stuff for the forum, I’ll pay the bills. What do you say?

Be glad to assist

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

As tediously corporate as this sounds, I would strongly suggest that those folks interested in and/or informed about the particulars of the Forum's operation might be in the best position to develop some kind of proposal -- so, yes, I'm suggesting an exploratory/subcommittee (sorry) to develop a plan and then to share that with Forum folks interested in pitching in (with labor or cash)...

 

Thank you for posting this thought @RyanDean. My years of dealing with small businesses thinks that you are onto something here.

 

I do think that a proposal outlining the plans for the site are critical, and not just the technicial and financial side of things. So far, from all of the great offers, I feel there are huge holes to what is being publicly presented as resources to support.

 

Unfortunately, I'm on a contract right now and it will be a few more months before I can return to retirement. Otherwise I would be raising my hand trying to help more. At this time, I'd be willing to review any of the plans the potential next generation is interested in presenting to poke holes in it.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I do think that a proposal outlining the plans for the site are critical, and not just the technicial and financial side of things. So far, from all of the great offers, I feel there are huge holes to what is being publicly presented as resources to support.

 

I was just about to post something similar.

 

When I was raising donations for Bill 5 years ago or so the idea I floated around was a sort of soft steering committee. My own view was that 1) it could intervene if something like what just happened to Bill did, and 2) it could shape the future direction of the site if something happened to Bill. There wasn't much interest at the time, but that was driven by the perception that Bill was in charge so it was best to leave well enough alone. I don't think this site runs itself in terms of, for example, what its goals are. When Rentboy was shut down and FOSTA/SESTA happened that definitely caused Daddy/Guy to rethink some things and make changes. So while it may mostly run itself on a day to day level, I think it makes sense to have some group steering the ship.

 

One simple way to do that is just say that is what the moderators do - if they in fact want that role. But even if we do that, that should be a conscious decision, I think.

 

My other suggestion is such a group, if there is a need for one, should be small and representative. Mostly what I mean by that is it should include both escorts and those who hire them.

 

If the review website survives, which I hope it does, the other thing that should be thought through is what the relationship between the two is. They were started joined at the hip, which was the way I liked it. Bill performed some surgery in response to FOSTA/SESTA. But I view this as an opportunity to both restore and improve. I think for active escorts, which I no longer am, that review site is of greater interest. But my perception is that everybody likes it when the two sites and what they do play well together.

 

Team Washington thanks again for everything you are doing.

[rvwnsd]

I'm happy to participate in a steering committee and act as a moderator, if we determine additional moderators are required. However, I can't have an ownership stake or serve as an officer (if a corporation or LLC is established) due to my position at my employer.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I'm happy to participate in a steering committee and act as a moderator, if we determine additional moderators are required. However, I can't have an ownership stake or serve as an officer (if a corporation or LLC is established) due to my position at my employer.

 

Which is exactly why this ownership thing should be thought through by something like a steering committee, I think.

 

A simple and obvious option is that @Coolwave35 is the owner, if he is the money guy. My view is that's a mixed blessing, since it also makes him a target. That's more his decision than anybody else's, of course. Again, whenever I think about this I think of both sites. Because for a lot of people the review site has as much or more value. My view is that Bill felt he had to play defense. Especially right after FOSTA/SESTA the scales tipped toward doing things to protect himself and both sites. Now the environment around us has changed, and I'd rather we play offense. One way or the other I think things should be set up with an intention to insulate people who fund the site or house or sponsor its equipment.

 

My own main interest has been and continues to be what I'll call the "political" parts. I'll use that word, but I actually think they go to the fundamental goals of this site as Bill articulated them in the TOS he wrote. While it's not the most immediate concern, that's something I'd hope a steering committee would be thinking about as well. The way I'd frame the question is this: what do we want this website and the community it serves to look like 5 or 10 years from now? What do we want the environment around us to look like for escorts and those who hire them? And do we want to use this website to drive those goals?

 

That's steering committee stuff, in my view. Some of what a steering committee does could be thinking about how maybe we want a new forum on some new topic. Or how we use of a new technology. But I'd also argue we have an opportunity to be part of and help shape the bigger political environment we operate in.

 

I'm really encouraged in particular to see HRC is now openly promoting decriminalization. Bill agreed with me years ago that it would make sense to reach out to them and try to get them to weigh in. Now they have. That said, my read of the room back then was that the people I knew were all in "keep your head down" mode, which I understood and respected. I just tuned out completely, since I don't believe in fighting lost causes. But I've been tuning back in. Things have changed. It seems like we have lots of opportunities, and coalitions are being built around us that could impact our core interests.

 

I asked @Coolwave35 what he thought about decriminalization, and he said he thinks it will happen in 10 years. I sure hope he is right. And I assume most people here think that way, too. So the question is do we want to be part of that? Meaning be part of a coalition trying to make it happen, and be a place people come to read and think about it? My own bias is obvious. I would love to see this website be at the center of such a coalition and debate.

 

I had discussions about all these things with Bill when he was, in effect, the steering committee. First and foremost, he was trying to figure out how to navigate past the dark clouds over his (and our) head. It would be very exciting to see a group of people carrying that forward, about where we want to be 5 or 10 years from now. Again, I know these are NOT the most immediate concerns. But one of the things I respected about Bill is he had a vision and a sort of road map about where he wanted to help drive things. My hope is that beyond just keeping both websites alive we pick up that torch and choose our vision of where we want to go as a community.

[Guest]

I'm so thankful for everyone's effort at saving the forum. I tried to access it this morning and thought, well, the end is here. I assumed they either cut the power or removed the equipment from his apartment.

 

I would recommend moving the forum to a cloud based hosting solution like Amazon Web Services (AWS) which prevents what happened with Daddy from happening again. Also forming an LLC and placing all the assets under it would help keep it alive and keep the accounting more manageable.

 

Not a lawyer so your mileage may vary, lol. I'm sure we have a few on the forum who could provide direction. I'm just an IT consultant so I've dealt with these issues before with both Fortune 500 companies as well as small business.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Once we have updated the DNS entries for the old site's URL to point to the new server, the redirect will no longer be needed and the old server can be relinquished. There is other work to do for moving the review site.

 

All of this means that it is time to decide who will own and run this place.

 

I moved that quote from the "New Home" thread because I thought this discussion would fit better here.

 

I'm not sure I should ask this question @Orin . But me being me .................

 

Does moving the message forum and review site to a new server have any impact on the legal process involving things like probate and a small estate exemption? I know you may not know the answer, or you may want to wait until you've hired a lawyer to answer it.

 

My non-legal, ignorant whore answer is that a year ago this website was owned by the community that it served, and exactly the same is true today. Guy was the steward before. And now the community will play a more direct steward role. This is exactly why I favor some kind of community ownership structure. Like the LLC or corporation structure @rvwnsd and @Woofiecmh mentioned above. Or a non-profit as you have mentioned.

 

That said, I'm assuming sooner or later this process goes through probate. And if we go the way @RyanDean and @sam.fitzpatrick have recommended, which I hope we do, that will take time. Both to put a committee together, hash out their recommendations, and then implement them. So I'm wondering how that fits together.

 

And on the topic of working as a team. Of all the beautiful things you did in the last day or so, @RadioRob, this statement is the most beautiful thing to me.

 

In the interest of this being a community, it would not be good for me to have control over everything ... I personally see it as a checks/balances thing. Instead my goal is to simply do my part as a member of the community to ensure the site survives.

 

If we can take that idea and apply to every problem we have to solve this website will be better than ever.

[+ FrankR]

I am willing to help maintain the server and keep the site online. Right now this site is running on my personal server. Long term it will be important to move it into its own island separate from my personal situation as I refuse to have the same thing that happened to this site twice previously occur again if something were to happen to me. I've spoken with Orin about this and have outlined some ideas around how to document what is needed for someone to take on "survivorship". This will include documenting all critical service logins (such as for the Xenforo software, for the domain hosting, for the domain DNS, etc)... how to access it, etc. It will also include having the site being self-contained where it's separate from the administrator personally. This role can also be shared with any other sysadmin who is comfortable with linux system administration and web services (apache, mysql, php, etc.)

 

What I do *not* want is to have any direct control over any sort of money. In the interest of this being a community, it would not be good for me to have control over everything. Whomever is going to be in charge of the money can make payments on behalf of the site, etc. I personally see it as a checks/balances thing. I'm NOT Daddy/Hooboy and I would never try to impose myself as such. Instead my goal is to simply do my part as a member of the community to ensure the site survives.

It sounds like we may need a @Beancounter !! ?

[Beancounter]

It sounds like we may need a @Beancounter !! ?

Oh, dear! I’ve been summoned! I’m going to publicly admit I’m clueless as to how this type of business would handled. Perhaps a board of directors could be chosen and @marylander1940 could be elected chairman of the board. ?

[mike carey]

Oh, dear! I’ve been summoned! I’m going to publicly admit I’m clueless as to how this type of business would handled. Perhaps a board of directors could be chosen and @marylander1940 could be elected chairman of the board. ?

Do you have a different suggestion?

[marylander1940]

Do you have a different suggestion?

 

You should reign among us like your Queen does thousands of miles away.

[Danny-Darko]

Cooper has my vote! ?✍

 

Cooper | M4M Message Forum (m4m-forum.org) ???

[Scott Virginian]

Cooper has my vote! ?✍

 

Cooper | M4M Message Forum (m4m-forum.org) ???

 

I don't know what his own desires, preferences, thoughts are, but he's been a huge asset to this community, an admirable alter ego to Guy (as in someone who seemed to genuinely understand what Guy was trying to accomplish here), and an amazingly patient and even-handed source of adult supervision to our sometimes unruly little gaggle, LOL. I hope he'll be here in a leadership role.

[marylander1940]

Cooper has my vote! ?✍

 

Cooper | M4M Message Forum (m4m-forum.org) ???

 

Mine too!

 

The question is who could/should vote and how? @Cooper

[savantsav]

hey folks

 

I work in the cloud industry and have run and maintained forums since the late 90s (remember vbulletin? lol). If there's anything I can help with expertise and work wise, let me know and I can do some of this pro-bono.

[+ Orin]

I work in the cloud industry and have run and maintained forums since the late 90s (remember vbulletin? lol). If there's anything I can help with expertise and work wise, let me know and I can do some of this pro-bono.

 

Is anyone here keeping track of the offers of help? (That's not me, as I'm here to intercede between this community and the group working on closing out Bill's affairs and preserving the sites so they can be handed off to the community, NV court willing.)

 

I've seen several offers about running and maintaining this site so far. If the reviews site is going to be preserved, as some here have desired, then the editorial tasks that Bill had performed would also need to be done, except perhaps as a shared responsibility, much like moderation on the forum.

 

There's also been a call for a steering committee to make recommendation about the objective(s) of this community going forward, and whether it should advocate for change that would improve the lives, livelihood, legal standing and safety of sex workers. That will take people as well. And finally, if a legal entity is created to own the sites and represent the community, people would be needed for that as well.

 

'Team Washington', which includes Bill's friends in other states, has scheduled a second mission to Las Vegas this weekend to deal with more of the arcane matters, and the gears of the legal system will be engaged shortly. Whatever happens, it would be wise for there to be a plan in place when the time comes to take action.

 

So please keep up this discussion, and work towards some decisions about your collective future.