An observation

[xyz48B]

I’ll be frank. And I’m sure some here will love telling why they feel my frustration is wrong, but it irks me 1) how patronizing some of the older clients are in this forum and 2) how many of those same clients rush to the defense of (almost) any escort. Voice a frustration about providers? Well, see, you need to understand...But leave a provider voice some sort of frustration with clients, and many of those same clients are ready to jump on the bandwagon and condemn their fellow clients.

 

I don’t like the team aspect of the whole thing – provider vs. client. But some here, clients and providers alike, reinforce that notion. I’m sure it’s a small minority of voices, but they’re loud. I like to think that providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around for clients and clients want to be respectful of providers. Sadly, that’s not the case in some instances. But the way some on this forum talk, it would seem that every client is a waste of time and every provider is a victim. I don’t buy that narrative.

 

I don’t like when people make a big show of leaving something online. It me because it’s more often than not a ploy for attention. But I’ll say that the behavior I’ve outlined above is making me really want to stop contributing here. Although I can bet the clients and providers whom I’m thinking about would welcome my silence, so maybe I should just stick at it.

 

As I said, I do believe that most clients want to be respectful and most providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around. It’s unfortunately the bad ones who stick out. When we do encounter the bad ones, it would be nice if instead of saying, “Well, you see...” if we would all, clients and providers alike, wouldn’t see it as one team against another but rather support one another. But that too is some unfamiliar to the wider gay culture – being mutually altruistically supportive of each other.

 

I’m very happy and thankful for the providers who haven’t considered me a waste of time. I can say we’ve had a great time together. But it’s because we worked together, as a team, not as opponents. Such an arrangement can become a very good relationship and one to be appreciative of.

[+ azdr0710]

[Daverwr]

I can understand your frustration to the postings of some of the members of the forum. I can get that way too, at times. But, I just let it “roll off my back.” I remind myself that I really don’t know these people and they, more importantly, don’t know me. Don’t leave the forum due to some members.

 

Unfortunately, the team mentality is universal. Just look at what’s going on with the election. We are immersed in team mentality from early childhood. I don’t think we can ever get away from it. I’m not sure what to say to make it easier. I’m sorry!

[+ WilliamM]

I’ll be frank. And I’m sure some here will love telling why they feel my frustration is wrong, but it irks me 1) how patronizing some of the older clients are in this forum and 2) how many of those same clients rush to the defense of (almost) any escort. Voice a frustration about providers? Well, see, you need to understand...But leave a provider voice some sort of frustration with clients, and many of those same clients are ready to jump on the bandwagon and condemn their fellow clients.

 

I don’t like the team aspect of the whole thing – provider vs. client. But some here, clients and providers alike, reinforce that notion. I’m sure it’s a small minority of voices, but they’re loud. I like to think that providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around for clients and clients want to be respectful of providers. Sadly, that’s not the case in some instances. But the way some on this forum talk, it would seem that every client is a waste of time and every provider is a victim. I don’t buy that narrative.

 

I don’t like when people make a big show of leaving something online. It me because it’s more often than not a ploy for attention. But I’ll say that the behavior I’ve outlined above is making me really want to stop contributing here. Although I can bet the clients and providers whom I’m thinking about would welcome my silence, so maybe I should just stick at it.

 

As I said, I do believe that most clients want to be respectful and most providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around. It’s unfortunately the bad ones who stick out. When we do encounter the bad ones, it would be nice if instead of saying, “Well, you see...” if we would all, clients and providers alike, wouldn’t see it as one team against another but rather support one another. But that too is some unfamiliar to the wider gay culture – being mutually altruistically supportive of each other.

 

I’m very happy and thankful for the providers who haven’t considered me a waste of time. I can say we’ve had a great time together. But it’s because we worked together, as a team, not as opponents. Such an arrangement can become a very good relationship and one to be appreciative of.

Yes, I agree. I guess I was a fool to hope clients would look at a critical comment about providers objectively.

[+ sync]

I don't feel your frustration is wrong, but I do feel that you are taking too much onboard collectively. The providers presented and discussed here are business people, and just as in any other field of business, some providers are purposely unscrupulous, deceitful in their advertising, lacking in the services provided, and practice questionable pricing tactics. At the other end of that spectrum are clients that are impossible to satisfy. While it is generally these two extremes that generate the more acrimonious discussion/debate exchanges here, there are many other substantive exchanges that render need-to-know information and provider recommendations, as well as cordial exchanges between providers and clients.

 

I hope you will reconsider your inclination to leave the fora.

[xyz48B]

some providers are purposely unscrupulous, deceitful in their advertising, lacking in the services provided, and practice questionable pricing tactics. At the other end of that spectrum are clients that are impossible to satisfy

I would hope that we are able, to the best of our ability, discuss those things.

 

One thing I’ve learned in my work that is largely unfruitful when someone is sharing a point of view is that offering the “have you considered X” point of view to reconsider and possibly change or contextualize a situation really doesn’t help the discussion. Out the gate, don’t provide a counter example why I’m perceiving something the way it is. Before you do that, you validate the perception expressed. It’s important to recognize that validating someone’s feelings isn’t saying they’re right. It simply recognizes them for what they are.

 

In my original post, I wrote about some clients on here who almost invariably will validate certain escorts but provide alternative views to their fellow clients. Why that difference in approach?

[xyz48B]

What exactly are you saying?

[xyz48B]

it is generally these two extremes that generate the more acrimonious discussion/debate exchanges here

Where I come from, we say, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease.”

[+ MysticMenace]

I’ll be frank. And I’m sure some here will love telling why they feel my frustration is wrong, but it irks me 1) how patronizing some of the older clients are in this forum and 2) how many of those same clients rush to the defense of (almost) any escort. Voice a frustration about providers? Well, see, you need to understand...But leave a provider voice some sort of frustration with clients, and many of those same clients are ready to jump on the bandwagon and condemn their fellow clients.

 

I don’t like the team aspect of the whole thing – provider vs. client. But some here, clients and providers alike, reinforce that notion. I’m sure it’s a small minority of voices, but they’re loud. I like to think that providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around for clients and clients want to be respectful of providers. Sadly, that’s not the case in some instances. But the way some on this forum talk, it would seem that every client is a waste of time and every provider is a victim. I don’t buy that narrative.

 

I don’t like when people make a big show of leaving something online. It me because it’s more often than not a ploy for attention. But I’ll say that the behavior I’ve outlined above is making me really want to stop contributing here. Although I can bet the clients and providers whom I’m thinking about would welcome my silence, so maybe I should just stick at it.

 

As I said, I do believe that most clients want to be respectful and most providers want to provide a pleasurable experience all around. It’s unfortunately the bad ones who stick out. When we do encounter the bad ones, it would be nice if instead of saying, “Well, you see...” if we would all, clients and providers alike, wouldn’t see it as one team against another but rather support one another. But that too is some unfamiliar to the wider gay culture – being mutually altruistically supportive of each other.

 

I’m very happy and thankful for the providers who haven’t considered me a waste of time. I can say we’ve had a great time together. But it’s because we worked together, as a team, not as opponents. Such an arrangement can become a very good relationship and one to be appreciative of.

 

Thank you for sharing your observation, and if for some reason, my posts have contributed to that frustration, I apologize. I commiserate with your sentiments, and at times, I observe the same things you outlined. I personally felt attacked a couple days from joining the forum simply by the virtue of my newness but I slowly realized that came with the territory. I had since sought counsel from some individuals in the forum and it made me realize the following:

• My truth is not invalid just because an individual or group of individuals attempt to invalidate it.
  
• Somebody in the forum still can and does value your perspective in the forum. I certainly do value your perspective and do not consider you a waste of time. Please continue to contribute.
  
• The concept of "assume positive intent" would be a nice tenet for all of us to follow, but something we unfortunately cannot expect everyone to embrace. What we can expect is how we individually embrace the tenet and how we respond. As @Daverwr said, I have learned to let comments "roll off my back" as well.
  
• I have found this forum to be a safe space for me to voice my thoughts, opinions, and to solicit advice. I also have to realize that with any communication vehicle, whether it be an online forum (like this one), or others, group think is unavoidable and all I could do from my end is to acknowledge my own biases and try my best to understand the perspective of an individual or group of individuals and objectively identify what biases might underlie those perspectives and respond accordingly (e.g., question perspective, clarify, roll of my back and move on).
  
• Just like with any social scenario, I cannot vibe with everyone and not everyone will vibe with me. I hope you can find some individuals in this forum that you vibe with and still feel a sense of community and belonging.
  

Just know @xyz48B that your voice is heard and I value what you bring to the forum, for what that is worth.

[liubit]

Excellent points, @JoeMendoza. This forum provides us with a unique space to discuss views and experiences that many of us wouldn’t share even with our best friends. It is a refreshing escape valve and a very valuable source of information. Keep on contributing, @xyz48B, we value your voice, let it be heard.

[xyz48B]

“We value your voice”

 

these words, or one similar to it, are ones that I tell people in my line of work always. Most of the time I use those phrases to placate people who I actually have no intention of doing anything with their opinion. I hear it, recognize that it’s been heard, and then move on to do something different. Perhaps unrelated to the OP, but nonetheless important to discuss in the wider frame of “communication in society,” particularly given the polarized nature of political discourse in the United States, what does it mean to say “we value your voice?”

 

Not every opinion can become a reality. In fact, many opinions are diametrically opposed to each other such that they would have to exist in paradox at the very least. And in particular in this forum, do we in fact value all opinions that are expressed? And valuing something doesn’t necessarily mean that we see it as worthwhile. I can evaluate some thing to be not worth my time. That’s not what I’m trying to say you meant, however, @liubit. Just considering what we say and what we mean. What we need to communicate and what we actually communicate.