Question for White (Or non-Black) clients and Black escorts: Do you think it matters?

[Jarrod_Uncut]

With talks about social injustice and race being more frequent, I couldn’t help but wonder myself. Sometimes I wonder if the way the Black community is portrayed and stigmatized, has a direct affect on how things in the hired gay sex community may differ between a White escort and a Black escort.

 

A common scene in many American cities (especially disenfranchised or towns of great wealth disparity in Midwest and south), you go to an inner city area. Oftentimes you’ll see a person of color (or Black, to be more specific) in a seemingly down on their luck position, holding a sign. I also overheard today, in Kansas City (a town in my opinion is Sadly stereotypical and eagerly segregate themselves in the process) what sounded like a heated outdoor argument at a nearby car wash. Of course, it had to be with Black congregating ??‍♂️

 

Then you have the protests. I seen sometimes the comments on articles, about how “Blacks will start looting” and such. With everything going on, I began to wonder if the headaches I deal with some days is a by product of how people stereotype and view the black community.

 

I often get a vibe that when a White guy is escorting or has a sugar daddy, they’re viewed as smart and lucky. Yet when a Black guy does the same thing, they’re viewed as lazy and can’t do nothing better with their lives. Double standards so to speak. Then some of our clients who support us, end up harboring some of the same mindsets, and then no wonder why lately, so many appointments get cancelled, flaked, no shower and no reimbursed.

 

I wish there was an easier way to change it. Sometimes I wonder if clients understand we aren’t all the same. There was a White escort who once asked me, “do you think you deal with more flakes than other people?” And I said, I probably do. I probably do. The same White (or non black) guy my caliber is probably dealing with far less nonsense and tripe than your Black escort of the same caliber. And I think it’s a lot to do with the constant negative connotations put out, whether its being “ghetto” or “poor” or “dangerous”. And I think it has an effect that we may not always be aware of. What’s obvious, a good majority of “our” supporting clients aren’t usually of the same ethnicity. However I did notice on my last trip to DC...I went from having only non black clients, to having a bit more variety. But the overall amount of white clients was noticeably less.

 

Fact or Fiction?

Edited September 25, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ Lucky]

I often get a vibe that when a White guy is escorting or has a sugar daddy, they’re viewed as smart and lucky. Yet when a Black guy does the same thing, they’re viewed as lazy and can’t do nothing better with their lives. Double standards so to speak. Then some of our clients who support us, end up harboring some of the same mindsets, and then no wonder why lately, so many appointments get cancelled, flaked, no shower and no reimbursed.

@Jarrod_Uncut Who views Black guys as lazy because they escort?

[Luv2play]

I’ve hired a number of black escorts over the years, both in Canada and the USA. I realize that the two countries have a different social history and this comes through in meeting these guys one on one (Or one on two as the case may be). In the USA blacks have lived there in considerable numbers since the founding of the country and for the first 250 years were mostly slaves. Down to this time there has been a lot of racial discrimination and we are seeing it playing out today even as other forms of discrimination such as based on gender, religion and sexual identity have been addressed in major ways.

 

In Canada most blacks are either first or second generation and have come from former British colonies (as Canada is) like Jamaica, Barbados and certain African countries. Discrimination is prevalent here too and has existed even predating the arrival of these more recent immigrants. The colour bar was practised in Canada just as in the States with blacks being excluded from hotels, restaurants and clubs well before WWII.

 

I hire escorts based on my personal preferences as to type which includes not just physical attributes but personality as well. I don’t make distinctions between colour of skin. I’m looking for the person under the skin. Since most of my hires are for extended sessions, these will include dinner out at restaurants. I like an escort, whether, white, black or brown, who can be as much fun out of the bedroom as between the sheets.

 

The last black escort I hired was for an overnight in Toronto and he met the bill in every respect for me, a well educated, professional guy with a regular job and escorting on the side. He had lots of interesting stuff to talk about when we weren’t kissing or my mouth was otherwise filled. LOL

Edited May 18, 2021 by Luv2play

[CuriousByNature]

I’ve hired a number of black escorts over the years, both in Canada and the USA. I realize that the two countries have a different social history and this comes through in meeting these guys one on one (Or one on two as the case may be). In the USA blacks have lived there in considerable numbers since the founding of the country and for the first 250 years were mostly slaves. Down to this time there has been a lot of racial discrimination and we are seeing it playing out today even as other forms of discrimination such as based on gender, religion and sexual identity have been addressed in major ways. In Canada most blacks are either first or second generation and have come from former British colonies (as Canada is) like Jamaica, Barbados and certain African countries. Discrimination is prevalent here too and has existed even predating the arrival of these more recent immigrants. The colour bar was practised in Canada just as in the States with blacks being excluded from hotels, restaurants and clubs well before WWII. I hire escorts based on my personal preferences as to type which includes not just physical attributes but personality as well. I don’t make distinctions between colour of skin. I’m looking for the person under the skin. Since most of my hires are for extended sessions, these will include dinner out at restaurants. I like an escort, whether, white, black or brown, who can be as much fun out of the bedroom as between the sheets. The last black escort I hired was for an overnight in Toronto and he met the bill in every respect for me, a well educated, professional guy with a regular job and escorting on the side. He had lots of interesting stuff to talk about when we weren’t kissing or my mouth was otherwise filled. LOL

A lot of people are surprised that Canada also has a history of slavery. Until slavery was abolished by the British Empire in the early 1800s, there were British in what became Canada who owned black slaves. And the French owned a number of Indigenous slaves too. The climate here was not conducive to large plantation-style operations, which may be why slavery in Canada did not grow like it did in the southern USA. We may think Canada's history is one of greater acceptance and social equality, but sadly, our lack of widespread slavery was probably connected more to climate and economic realities. Canadians have a lot to be sorry for with respect to our history - though I know you were not suggesting otherwise is any way

[Luv2play]

I think people are surprised because our history of slavery is largely a footnote since the numbers were so small. The French, who were the first European settlers in what became Canada and parts of the USA, did not engage in slavery to any appreciable extent since the mother country did not and the population mostly consisted of soldiers, administrators, priests and farmers on small land holdings. What they encountered here amongst the aboriginal population was a long practice of slavery, predating European contact, amongst the various tribes (today called nations) arising from conquests and subsequent enslavement of hostages. The native Indians, as they were called, even took white slaves, and particularly women, but these were relatively isolated instances. When the British arrived in 1759, they did not bring slaves with them. However, 40 years later, after the American Revolution, some British officers from the 13 colonies, like Virginia, brought some household slaves with them to what became the new province of Ontario. These only numbered in the hundreds and their offspring were granted their freedom. Upper Canada outlawed slavery even before Britain as the first governor of Upper Canada, later called Ontario, took the first steps to curtail it in the late 1700’s during his term of office. This is not meant to be an excuse for what happened here but just an explanation of what happened and to provide some historical context.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

@Jarrod_Uncut Who views Black guys as lazy because they escort?

 

Nobody in their right mind, that’s for sure. But many Americans don’t operate in their right mind. But I’ve come across guys who have addressed me in such a manner. It hasn’t happened lately, because over the years so many gay guys have started becoming “RentMen”, but there’s still a stigma amongst the elitist gay cliques about sex work, especially when a minority does it.

 

 

A lot of people are surprised that Canada also has a history of slavery. Canadians have a lot to be sorry for with respect to our history - though I know you were not suggesting otherwise is any way

 

That’s sad but I can almost imagine it’s true. It’s ironic how the George Floyd Minneapolis and Kenosha events in Wisconsin caused such a huge uprising. You’d think stuff like that would happen in the south (and I’m sure it happens all the time in the south). But it goes to show: these Canadian bordered states can just as easily be as hell bent on disenfranchising minorities as your most KKK southern states, in some ways.

 

And I know about Wisconsin and Minneapolis. I’ve found both places when dealing with police, highly discriminatory to say the least. And truth be told: I believe the Derek Chauvin mother fucker actually pulled me over once. I ordered some records from the Hennepin County Courts, I just need to call and find out if the badge number from 5 years ago matches his name. If so, I want to be a part of this class action lawsuit ??

 

But back on topic....

Edited September 27, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[RandyVue]

With talks about social injustice and race being more frequent, I couldn’t help but wonder myself. Sometimes I wonder if the way the Black community is portrayed and stigmatized, has a direct affect on how things in the hired gay sex community may differ between a White escort and a Black escort.

 

A common scene in many American cities (especially disenfranchised or towns of great wealth disparity in Midwest and south), you go to an inner city area. Oftentimes you’ll see a person of color (or Black, to be more specific) in a seemingly down on their luck position, holding a sign. I also overheard today, in Kansas City (a town in my opinion is Sadly stereotypical and eagerly segregate themselves in the process) what sounded like a heated outdoor argument at a nearby car wash. Of course, it had to be with Black congregating ??‍♂️

 

Then you have the protests. I seen sometimes the comments on articles, about how “Blacks will start looting” and such. With everything going on, I began to wonder if the headaches I deal with some days is a by product of how people stereotype and view the black community.

 

I often get a vibe that when a White guy is escorting or has a sugar daddy, they’re viewed as smart and lucky. Yet when a Black guy does the same thing, they’re viewed as lazy and can’t do nothing better with their lives. Double standards so to speak. Then some of our clients who support us, end up harboring some of the same mindsets, and then no wonder why lately, so many appointments get cancelled, flaked, no shower and no reimbursed.

 

I wish there was an easier way to change it. Sometimes I wonder if clients understand we aren’t all the same. There was a White escort who once asked me, “do you think you deal with more flakes than other people?” And I said, I probably do. I probably do. The same White (or non black) guy my caliber is probably dealing with far less nonsense and tripe than your Black escort of the same caliber. And I think it’s a lot to do with the constant negative connotations put out, whether its being “ghetto” or “poor” or “dangerous”. And I think it has an effect that we may not always be aware of. What’s obvious, a good majority of “our” supporting clients aren’t usually of the same ethnicity. However I did notice on my last trip to DC...I went from having only non black clients, to having a bit more variety. But the overall amount of white clients was noticeably less.

 

Fact or Fiction?

 

I don't think it makes one bit of difference.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I don't think it makes one bit of difference.

 

Well I know 1 thing: Kansas City has been under fire recently for an event where supposedly a pregnant black woman was arrested and pinned down by LE. It's created a stir in the city, and I can't say those type of incidents do any good for biz. Everytime it happens, it just gets slow and stays dead for a couple of weeks.

 

It wasn't all out riots, but over the last 2 weeks it was so dead business wise, I had to make an emergency exit out of the area. I hadn't had a client in 2 weeks, and finances were running critically low after paying bills and escort ads the week before, and not making a goddamn dime back. I even froze one of my ads until I was ready to leave, because it was so dead and just a waste of paid time

 

Meanwhile traveling escorts still seem to come thru. Be warned. It's dead. I spoke to one who reached out to me, who was citing how slow it was for him last month.

 

I said, I wouldn't of wasted my money going to Kansas City. I only go to connect with relatives, and when I do host someone, they have to pay me a deposit in advance. Otherwise, they'll never show up. Ever.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[xyz48B]

With everything going on, I began to wonder if the headaches I deal with some days is a by product of how people stereotype and view the black community.

No. It’s not.

[Sixty]

Sounds like stuff MOCHA usually fixated on ??????????????????????

[dbar123]

I’m a short white guy and I tend to hire more white guys, mostly because there are fewer shorter black guys in my area.

[+ keroscenefire]

I am Latino and hire a pretty wide variety of ethnicities. My main regular that I see the most is mixed-race half-black and half-white. And a common masseur I see is black. My FWB is also a black guy. We've had some conversations though and he does say that a lot of white guys are automatically a bit more suspicious of bringing a black guy into their house or whatever. So I am sure there are some stereotypes and stuff that go into it. Sorry that is the case.

 

Does it relate to the city you go to? Like DC has a pretty large Black population so maybe they are more open to that there than in Denver, where our black population is under 10 percent?

[jeezifonly]

@Jarrod_Uncut Do you find that in-session interaction with non-white clients is very different from your white clients? Not talking about arranging, traveling etc but the time you actually spend together with the meter running - are your experiences that black men treat you better or with more respect? Are you more relaxed with black men, say because of sense of humor, or shared life experiences and other cultural touchstones? Do white men have more need to objectify your parts rather than treat you as a whole sexual being?

Not trying to provoke, really interested in your perception of this part of the work.

[Rudynate]

We live in a society in which racism is institutionalized - it pervades everything. Given that, of course it will find it's way into male-on-male sex work. Perfectly well meaning clients will, by reflex, treat a black provider differently - because they have been programmed to do so, not because they have any animus toward the black provider.

 

My heart is completely in the right place with respect to questions on race. In spite of that, I monitor myself carefully in interactions with people of color because those unconscious biases can suddenly make themselves known - they may even seem quite innocent at the time. For example, some months ago I was talking with the branch manager of my bank - an American-born Chinese. He speaks several languages - Japanese, Mandarin and Cantonese. I commented that I really liked the sound of Mandarin when it was being spoken by an American who knew it well better than the sound of a native speaker. It occurred to me later that that was sort of a tone-deaf remark - throwing shade on an entire language that only sounded good when it was being spoken by Americans.

 

I hired a black provider a while ago and met him at his hotel. When I arrived, he wasn't quite ready and texted me to wait in the lobby for ten minutes. I was annoyed and would have been annoyed if a white provider had asked me to do the same thing. But later, I thought my irritation was way out of proportion to what had happened, and was willing to examine whether that was an unconscious racial bias popping up.

 

I was deeply affected by an episode of Geraldo that aired in the late 80s. The topic was racism. He had a panel of black guys - academics, therapists, that sort of person. The panel was taking questions from the audience and a young white guy stood up and talked about how wracked with guilt he was about his own unconscious racism and didn't know what he could do about it. One of the panelists responded, "It's not your fault. You are a product of a racist system so you can't help but be racist." He also said, "I'm a product of the same system, so I have all of those unconscious biases that you do, and I'm black." So each and every one of has the responsibility to decide whether we are going to be used by these impulsive biases or whether to exercise the self-awareness that allows us to act another way.