Tolerating opinions of family members

[+ purplekow]

My father was a racist. When our blue collar neighborhood began to integrate in the early 1970s. he came up with a plan to sell our house in NY and move to Georgia, a place we had never been and to which we had no connection. That never happened but the neighborhood did eventually change, Thing is my father changed with it, at least a bit. When the house next to ours was sold to an Jamaican family, my father ranted and cursed and was generally everything ugly that racism does to people. Eventually he met the neighbors. And slowly he began to speak to them regularly. This was not something he did when the German family lived next door for 20 years. Even as the neighborhood became less and less white, he stopped complaining about it and he settled in do his usual activities. That was until our house was burglarized and then his fear for his safety and the satety of my mother brought back to the surface his racist inclinations. Eventually he moved, with my support, as the neighborhood had really gotten unsafe. Every house on the block had been robbed in a short period o time. Drug addicts began hanging out on the streets of the small shopping area. The stores now had metal window guards and bars. This was no longer the town we had called home.

My father has since passed but my family and particularly one sister is still quite racist. The events of the last few days have brought the latent racism to the fore. My sister has posted a few hateful messages with the coded, those people and what are they doing.

I find this abhorrent and I have discussed it with her in the past and she is not likely to change.

My sister and I have a Luke warm relationship at best. But these posts have brought an even greater chill. I have unfriended her in the past when her political posts continued to bombard my Facebook page despite my requests for her to not include me in that propaganda. I am now unfireinding her again,. I am considering just breaking off all interactions with her, limited ss they are. I am giving it a bit of time.

Still I wonder, I have known about her attitudes from our childhood. She has not changed and I have just kept our conversations free of topics which would lead to ugly conversations. She likely has done the same. When we are together, if such topics come out, I leave the conversation, In the past I have interceded but it is clear there is no changing her thinking.

Other family members are very much on her end of the spectrum but not nearly as vocal about it.

My question is, how have you handled the philosophic differences between you and friends and family members. By keeping people in your life that harbor ideas which you find toxic, are you fostering that thinking. Do you have to take the good and take the bad, take them both because there you have the facts of life, the facts of life?

Edited June 3, 2020 by purplekow

[+ purplekow]

[+ Coolwave35]

I was born into a large Italian family. I speak to one brother, a cousin, and two nephews. I’ve chosen an incredible circle of friends and escorts that feel like family. I’m happy and I don’t miss bad people.

[+ azdr0710]

A very good friend of mine since college, who I knew to be "born-again" and who is now married with kids and all, started sending me anti-Governor Newsom stuff (he lives in Cal) and even childish/racist anti-Mexican stuff when all this virus stuff started.....very much pro-business/Trump/open up the state stuff......only occasionally did he ever send political stuff like this in the many years before......I'd lightly chide him with, "but......" and "what about....." rebuttals and we'd stay in touch......was nearly impossible to "ignore" his texts, of course, and I certainly didn't want to endorse them......

 

just this morning, I sent him a text with a simple sentence or two about Trump's display yesterday with the photo-op at the church and the crowds that were clubbed and gassed out of the way so he could go over there......he hasn't replied......I'm thinking he may've decided to cut me off, but it's still early.......

 

PK: I'd bump along with your relatives as you've evidently been doing all your life and, as you say, leave the conversation if things get bad......family is important and you may need to remain on ok terms for some future family event or decision......turning a blind eye to obvious racist comments is a bit wimpy and spineless, but perhaps your silence will speak volumes??.....alternatively, you could mount a counter-point-style response with shrewd and crafty debunking of every post she makes??!!

Edited June 3, 2020 by azdr0710

[+ Nakedchi]

Each person handles things differently but I cut my born again aunt out of my life years ago after she disrespected my husband. I won’t be at family events with her and would shred thr cards she would send me. It’s not worth my time putting up with someone who acts like she does. (I’ll share a few of the fucked up stories about her evangelical antics later. She’s such a shit show.)

[+ nycman]

When around family and the discussions head into minefields, I just disengage.

 

You can’t pick family, but you don’t have to swallow their ignorance either.

[CuriousByNature]

Not an easy situation. When a relative says something I find disturbing I usually respond with, 'You don't actually believe that, do you?' This invariably leads to a discussion, some defensiveness and justifying on their part, and often finishing by simply agreeing to disagree. But as long as I remain calm and rational in my arguments, things rarely get out of control. Even though I may think what they are saying is evil, I remind myself that they themselves are not evil - just ignorant or misinformed. I always hope that by confronting their opinions in a patient and fact-based manner they might realize their position does not have a solid foundation after all. Most of the time there is no obvious breakthrough, but I also cannot see what small changes may be happening in their hearts.

[Guest]

My paternal grandmother was a racist, my father was not. My father’s sister was racist, his brother was not. My father maintained a good balance throughout their lives. They’d say something and he’d a “the look” on his face and say something like “geez, that’s ridiculous” of “that’s not right.” Then he’d say “it’s time to change the subject or one of us will need to leave.” In their lifetimes, no one ever had to leave.

 

I don’t think you’re “fostering that thinking.” I think you’re keeping yourself “sharp” on why you think the way that you do.

[+ Italiano]

I was born into a large Italian family. I speak to one brother, a cousin, and two nephews. I’ve chosen an incredible circle of friends and escorts that feel like family. I’m happy and I don’t miss bad people.

As an Italian born and raised in a family with liberal ideas of total respect no matter what color, religion, gender or sexual orientation, when I moved to NYC (specifically Brooklyn) 20 years ago, I was very surprised to see that most Italian American families are quite racist and with very conservative values. I am not saying that these people do not exist in Italy (there are MANY!), but I wasn't expecting to see so many in the "Italian" community here! Also, before coming here I had never heard of the "black face" issue, which has never been an issue in Italy, and even if I do understand the background and the reasons, to me it's still bizarre to see people shocked and offended by an actor who is asked to put dark make up to portray a black person...Last year an American opera singer was invited to sing in a famous Opera House in Italy in Aida, an opera where the main character is an Egyptian princess. She refused to wear dark make up, and it became a case because nobody could really get all her justifications behind it!

Edited June 3, 2020 by Italiano

[Guest]

[uSER=3916]@xafnndapp[/uSER] black face is historically a form of mockery. Similarly, white folks in the 70’s and 80’s were offended when, in Cosby and The Jefferson’s, all the white characters were weak and dweebish. It sounds like the opera singer may have taken it to an extreme, but her concern was staying “10 feet back” from wherever that line of offense might be.

[+ DERRIK]

My older brother and wife live 400 miles away and they totally believe in Trump/Fox News

 

My spouse and I are grateful they live so far away

 

Fortunately in our home - we agree with about 90% with each other

 

I really feel for households that are split

[Ajac]

My mantra with family has always been no religion and politics. My brother and his wife are Trumpers as much as I try to stick to that my brother will try and needle me into listening to his rhetoric. It is so hard to be around him at times but I have gotten very good at deflecting.

[MikeBiDude]

Who remembers this idea for moderating family political differences? From Thanksgiving time 2016https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfJTEkC8tjs

[Epigonos]

My youngest nephew (62) is a born again evangelistic Christian I am an atheists. Many years ago we agreed to disagree on the subject of religion and we DO NOT discuss it. At our holiday family dinners he usually says grace which I am more than willing to tolerate for the sake of family unity. His older brother is a convert to Judaism but is not really very religious. If his younger brother slips and makes an absurd religious comment we look at each other and roll our eyes. My oldest nephew's wife is a progressive-liberal and as most of you are aware I am quite conservative. We both love political arguments which we have with considerable gusto. Other family members make us go off by ourselves. I absolutely adore her and she is very fond of me. Our discussions/arguments NEVER become nasty and we both enjoy the fireworks. We will never convince each other but damn we have fun trying to do so. This system works for us and our family remains quite close.

[mike carey]

My sister was a member of the Labor party and a trade union official in her twenties. I remember going to Labor party events with her. Roll the clock and she is now more conservative and is a member of the Liberal Party, and a branch official and member of the state council. Her wife's influence, I think. She joined the Party in part because she opposed the Christian right that was taking it over in Victoria (that has largely been pushed back). Although she says she's on the left of the party, she no longer watches the ABC and takes a harder line on climate change and trans rights, following the conservative talking points. When we meet we talk politics less than we did, and if anything my views have moved to the left, although I've never been a member of a party. We still talk politics, but it is more awkward than it was in the past.

 

There's a by-election in my federal constituency next month, and I'll probably vote Green, but my vote will flow to Labor. I won't discuss that with her (the Green part, I mean, if asked I'll tell her where my vote eventually went, to Labor). (The member who retired through ill-health was Labor.)

[marylander1940]

The line between conservatives and liberals in my family is very clear... We the liberals invested wisely, educated ourselves, we're not judgmental and we mind our own business. They (conservatives) are judgmental because that's the only way they can be tough and powerful in this world, they're not as wealthy and they never learn how to handle money but they opposed gay marriage, they still don't like immigrants, etc.

 

Clear picture, right?

[+ Topseed]

These decisions are individual ones. No playbook to guide you, nor should there be one.

 

Live in the truth. Be in sync with your personal moral compass. Like the person you see in the mirror. Challenge that person to be better.

[JayCeeKy]

He's not quite family, but this morning my barber informed me, while I was getting shaved, that George Soros was paying the looters to ransack the various cities. Tolerance of opposing viewpoints is quite easy when the other person has a sharp object near your throat.

[+ g56whiz]

My youngest nephew (62) is a born again evangelistic Christian I am an atheists. Many years ago we agreed to disagree on the subject of religion and we DO NOT discuss it. At our holiday family dinners he usually says grace which I am more than willing to tolerate for the sake of family unity. His older brother is a convert to Judaism but is not really very religious. If his younger brother slips and makes an absurd religious comment we look at each other and roll our eyes. My oldest nephew's wife is a progressive-liberal and as most of you are aware I am quite conservative. We both love political arguments which we have with considerable gusto. Other family members make us go off by ourselves. I absolutely adore her and she is very fond of me. Our discussions/arguments NEVER become nasty and we both enjoy the fireworks. We will never convince each other but damn we have fun trying to do so. This system works for us and our family remains quite close.

That system works for you @Epigonos because at the bottom of it all your nephew's wife and you share a mutual respect for each other's intelligence and humanity. Sadly that respect is currently not shared more widely in our society. Alas.

[+ Pensant]

Fortunately my siblings and other close relatives get along very well. Most of them are fairly liberal; the others are apolitical.

[+ g56whiz]

My parents had to elope. My maternal grandfather would not let his protestant daughter marry any mackerel snapper. This was in late '30's Boston where "Irish need not apply" in store windows was not uncommon. He wouldn't believe that despite his Irish surname, my father was as Anglican as him. Both grandfathers were drunks who headed dysfunctional families. As soon as they were able my parents moved away and didn't tolerate any sort of intolerance: it was a spank-able offence. Ironically my first exposure to racism came from a black man. The neighborhood in which I grew up, like many in the '50's, became largely Black with the northern migration after WW2. Most of my young friends were Black and the near neighborhood was relatively safe but the Junior High School which I was about to attend was not. As soon as the "For Sale" sign went up, Mr. Fletcher, our next door neighbor, came over and expressed to my father that he hopped he wouldn't sell to any of those real "darkies".

 

Because I grew up at a distance from relatives on either side and am an only child, I've not had to deal with dissension in the family. When it has occurred among classmates, neighbors, or even friends and colleagues, I normally deflect and sever the relationship if possible. Life is just too short. I'd lost all contact with family by the time my mother died 20 years ago. Occasionally I'll encounter someone like the wife of @Epigonos 's nephew. I really enjoy debating with someone with whom I share mutual respect.

[+ WilliamM]

The line between conservatives and liberals in my family is very clear... We the liberals invested wisely, educated ourselves, we're not judgmental and we mind our own business. They (conservatives) are judgmental because that's the only way they can be tough and powerful in this world, they're not as wealthy and they never learn how to handle money but they opposed gay marriage, they still don't like immigrants, etc.

 

Clear picture, right?

What does knowing how to handle money have to do with being liberal or conservative?

[+ WilliamM]

Most racist people are poor...

 

The poorest regions in the country constantly vote conservative, racism and xenophobia is used as a way to convince them to vote against their own interest because of fear of others.

Some racist people are poor, certainly not most. And some racist are quite wealthy.

 

Many people want to invest in property, but by no means, everyone. Some people rent because it gives them more options in life.

[+ sync]

Keeping the peace within divergent family factions can be very taxing. Within my family there are some who are anti-white to the nth degree. On occasion I have been chided for being too friendly with "whitey." I feel fortunate that while in my 20's I migrated into New York City for work and residence where I had the good fortune to interact with virtually every race over the years. I came to understand that racist convictions exist everywhere, but not in everyone. I submitted to my family, and some friends of the family, the reality that no-one does it alone. When Jews were being exterminated in Germany, there were German families who risked everything, including their very lives, to hide Jews in their German homes. In America there were Caucasians who risked everything to participate in the underground railroad and later in civil rights movements. And, today, we see large numbers of Caucasians, and other races, marching in the name of George Floyd. As to this thread's title "Tolerating opinions of family members," tolerating is the optimum word.

[+ WilliamM]

I don't want to help you drag this out of subject.

Huh? You aren't the hall monitor.