Calling Miss Manners...

[Guest]

Another reflection on my week in Puerto Vallarta with my hunky Colombian. As those of you who go to PV may know, many services in town are highly geared to foreigners, especially Americans and Canadians. Most of the time, when I was with him, people would address me in English, which my Colombian friend doesn't understand (I guess they assumed someone with blue eyes can't speak Spanish). I didn't want to feel uncomfortable in his not being able to understand what was being said, so I would respond in Spanish "I'm sorry, but my friend doesn't speak English." After a couple of times, though, he told me that this actually made him more uncomfortable, since it made him feel bad for not being able to speak English. After he told me that, when I was addressed in English, I responded with "What was that you said?" in Spanish, and that seemed to switch the dialog. Of course, that seemed to imply that I don't speak English, which isn't true of course-- although I never would explicitly stated that I can't speak English, of course. How would you have handled this situation? Was there a better way?

Edited December 22, 2019 by Unicorn

[KeepItReal]

Another reflection on my week in Puerto Vallarta with my hunky Colombian. As those of you who go to PV may know, many services in town are highly geared to foreigners, especially Americans and Canadians. Most of the time, when I was with him, people would address me in English, which my Colombian friend doesn't understand (I guess they assumed someone with blue eyes can't speak Spanish). I didn't want to feel uncomfortable in not being able to understand what was being said, so I would respond in Spanish "I'm sorry, but my friend doesn't speak English." After a couple of times, though, he told me that this actually made him more uncomfortable, since it made him feel bad for not being able to speak English. After he told me that, when I was addressed in English, I responded with "What was that you said?" in Spanish, and that seemed to switch the dialog. Of course, that seemed to imply that I don't speak English, which isn't true of course-- although I never would explicitly stated that I can't speak English, of course. How would you have handled this situation? Was there a better way?

Hind sight is 20/20 and all that. Perhaps you could say in Spanish "Can we switch - I would like to practice my Spanish?" That, along with a Colgate smile should get you out of trouble! People are usually forgiving when they know you are willing to 'learn' and address them in their own language. May even get you better service!

[rvwnsd]

In the moment, I think you handled the situations perfectly. You did what you thought was right. It would never have occurred to me (nor others, I think) to ask my non-English speaking companion in advance how to handle service providers who speak to me in English. Now that you have had this experience you know how to handle it the next time.

[+ purplekow]

Prefiero hablar en español Without explanation should do the trick. No need to involve your friend's language skills nor imply that you need practice with your Spanish. Simple and true.

[+ poolboy48220]

After he told me that, when I was addressed in English, I responded with "What was that you said?" in Spanish, and that seemed to switch the dialog.

As a long time reader of Miss Manners, I applaud this. It puts no onus on your friend or on the people addressing you. @friendofsheila , if I remember correctly you're also a Miss Manners devotee; what do you think?

[+ g56whiz]

Hind sight is 20/20 and all that. Perhaps you could say in Spanish "Can we switch - I would like to practice my Spanish?" That, along with a Colgate smile should get you out of trouble! People are usually forgiving when they know you are willing to 'learn' and address them in their own language. May even get you better service!

Except perhaps in France where even if they know you’re learning French they’ll deride you until they can detect no accent what so ever. After all “Le monde civilisé tout entier parle français.”

[Guest]

Prefiero hablar en español Without explanation should do the trick. No need to involve your friend's language skills nor imply that you need practice with your Spanish. Simple and true.

Wow. That's actually a great response. I don't know why I didn't think of it. As you say, it has the advantage of being completely truthful as well.

[Guest]

Except perhaps in France where even if they know you’re learning French they’ll deride you until they can detect no accent what so ever. After all “Le monde civilisé tout entier parle français.”

I have no problem with my French, which is even better than my Spanish. I think it actually intimidates Canadians, who respond to me in English even when I address them in near-perfect French. I remember some years ago that my traveling companion chuckled when the hotel employee in Quebec City, who was checking us in, told us in English "Your room is on the turd floor."

Edited December 23, 2019 by Unicorn

[+ azdr0710]

during my one and only visit to Montreal and Quebec City about four years ago, I feared they would be the Paris Of North America......so I'd say, "bonjour, parlez vous anglais?" to everyone I needed to speak to......answers ranged from, "sure, waddaya want, I'm from Toronto" to a miffed "I vill try"

"

[BSR]

during my one and only visit to Montreal and Quebec City about four years ago, I feared they would be the Paris Of North America......so I'd say, "bonjour, parlez vous anglais?" to everyone I needed to speak to......answers ranged from, "sure, waddaya want, I'm from Toronto" to a miffed "I vill try"

"

 

In class in Salamanca (Spain, not Mexico) just to kill time while waiting for the teacher one day, I asked a German classmate how to say "I don't speak German" in German. He said it a few times, and I tried to repeat what I heard, but I must have been way off because he just held up his hand and sternly told me, "Just say it in English; they'll understand you." The beginning and the end of my German education.

 

Back on topic, another option is to not even bother mentioning your preference to speak Spanish, just respond or start talking in Spanish. I dealt with the situation a fair amount in Spain. Perhaps because of my appearance (I'm Filipino), occasionally Spaniards would initially speak to me in English. Forget asking or stating my preference to speak Spanish, I just responded in Spanish. Everyone caught on without missing a beat.

[+ purplekow]

In class in Salamanca (Spain, not Mexico) just to kill time while waiting for the teacher one day, I asked a German classmate how to say "I don't speak German" in German. He said it a few times, and I tried to repeat what I heard, but I must have been way off because he just held up his hand and sternly told me, "Just say it in English; they'll understand you." The beginning and the end of my German education.

 

Back on topic, another option is to not even bother mentioning your preference to speak Spanish, just respond or start talking in Spanish. I dealt with the situation a fair amount in Spain. Perhaps because of my appearance (I'm Filipino), occasionally Spaniards would initially speak to me in English. Forget asking or stating my preference to speak Spanish, I just responded in Spanish. Everyone caught on without missing a beat.

I have many Spanish speaking patients, I always ask, in Spanish, if they prefer English or Spanish. That is much easier on my ego then speaking to them in Spanish and having them respond in English, which I usually take as a non-verbal way of telling me their English is better than my Spanish, and it usually is.

[+ poolboy48220]

In class in Salamanca (Spain, not Mexico) just to kill time while waiting for the teacher one day, I asked a German classmate how to say "I don't speak German" in German. He said it a few times, and I tried to repeat what I heard, but I must have been way off because he just held up his hand and sternly told me, "Just say it in English; they'll understand you." The beginning and the end of my German education.

I am friends with a couple around the corner, originally from Germany. Some of the nuances of pronunciation escape me. I watch their dog fairly often, and he responds to "here!" (German "Hier") much better if I try to put the German pronunciation on it.

 

The wife says English was her worst subject in school, but apart from a small accent, I've found it perfect. She occasionally is unfamiliar with expressions; she told me her dog senses when I'm coming to their house, then was embarrassed because she thought I might take it that he could smell me several houses away :-)

[+ newatthis]

Except perhaps in France where even if they know you’re learning French they’ll deride you until they can detect no accent what so ever. After all “Le monde civilisé tout entier parle français.”

Not my experience in France at all. Occasional attitude from Parisians, but IMO that's the big city thing, not unlike the attitude you sometimes get from New Yorkers.

[+ newatthis]

I have no problem with my French, which is even better than my Spanish. I think it actually intimidates Canadians, who respond to me in English even when I address them in near-perfect French. I remember some years ago that my traveling companion chuckled when the hotel employee in Quebec City, who was checking us in, told us in English "Your room is on the turd floor."

When I speak French in Montreal, people often assume I'm European, rather than American. Anyway, in the places where I hang out, the young men I'm speaking with are unlikely to respond in English.

[+ newatthis]

... I asked a German classmate how to say "I don't speak German" in German...

I'm pretty good at mimicking accents as long as I keep to short phrases. I learned to say "I don't speak Turkish" in Turkish and "I don't speak Hungarian" in Hungarian. These invariably elicited a torrent of Turkish/Hungarian in response, which defeated the purpose of learning the phrases in the first place.

[+ g56whiz]

Not my experience in France at all. Occasional attitude from Parisians, but IMO that's the big city thing, not unlike the attitude you sometimes get from New Yorkers.

Well it was my experience 50 years ago in Orleans. Two stories:

 

I’ve been an amateur musician all my live. Days after arriving in France I heard about the French Conservatoire System where you can take lessons for a modest fee. I went into a music store to get a copy of music I’d need to audition. The piece I sought was by Bach and published by Breitkopf Hertel (Berlin, Paris, London and New York). Since it was only my 3rd day in France I asked in English. I got repeated “Je ne comprends pas monsieur.” until the woman who was the store owner slapped her hands loudly on the counter and deeply growled “You speak no French at all?” I learned enough French in the following 18 months to conduct simple business transactions in it and I bought a lot of music. But each time I entered the store the clerk at the door would say “Attendez s’il vous plait” and run upstairs to fetch the owner who would come down and wait on me in English.

 

Second story: I joined a small choral group and became friends with many of them. I struggled with my French. I was invited to many homes for dinner and would invite myself back to cook for them (often frankfurts, beans and brown bread - I’m from Boston). The night before I was transferred, they held a small banquet in my honor. When I arrived I was amazed to discover they well all speaking English. Of course I asked why. The reply was they had determined they their English was better than my French so they made a pact to only speak French with me. They then pointed out that they had switched to the “tu” form a year ago but I was still using the formal “vous” form. All was forgiven over many glasses of wine and much laughter.

[beachboy]

My experience of speaking French in Paris has always been positive. I speak basic French & have always found Parisians forgiving when I stumble. What they can't abide is English speakers who expect them to speak English. Their country & city-their language.

[+ Charlie]

I am reasonably good at pronunciation in several European languages, so I usually try to learn how to say, in the local language, "I don't speak [insert language] well. Do you speak English?" Most of the time, they do. That doesn't work in Asia very well, unfortunately, since I don't know any Asian language, but there people usually assume I am American as soon as they see me, and often address me first, in English.

[+ E.T.Bass]

Hind sight is 20/20 and all that. Perhaps you could say in Spanish "Can we switch - I would like to practice my Spanish?" That, along with a Colgate smile should get you out of trouble! People are usually forgiving when they know you are willing to 'learn' and address them in their own language. May even get you better service!

 

It sho is.....

http://s3.thingpic.com/images/E3/naQFWFaN8Lfjqqx4fsmLpmbY.gif

[+ nycman]

Their country & city-their language.

....they're assholes.

 

The rest of France is delightful.

 

Parisians are jerks.

 

And that’s coming from a douche bag New Yorker.

[AceHardware]

I am reasonably good at pronunciation in several European languages, so I usually try to learn how to say, in the local language, "I don't speak [insert language] well. Do you speak English?" Most of the time, they do. That doesn't work in Asia very well, unfortunately, since I don't know any Asian language, but there people usually assume I am American as soon as they see me, and often address me first, in English.

 

When I travel anywhere, I learn 6 words in the local language: yes/no; hello/goodbye; please/thank you. It's only 6 words to memorize, and it's amazing how many situations you can deal with with just those words. Or even decipher things. Arabic for no is "la," and when our Egyptian tour guide once said angrily to a vendor "lalalalala," I knew he wasn't singing.

[gallahadesquire]

My first job out of college, I was working at a material research laboratory. My colleague was Polish with a fairly significant Polish accent ... which I picked up, and would use when I spoke to her. Completely subconsciously.

 

One day I said to her, “Guda, you know when I talk like this, I’m not making fun of you (in my adopted accent).”

“When you talk like what.”

“Never mind.” (She hadn’t noticed it.)

[+ sniper]

I gave up on Rosetta Stone French after a couple of weeks. I couldn't seem to pronounce the vowels right to get past the speaking test. I would repeat "oeuf" twenty times until that stupid green light came on, and had no idea what I did differently to get through.

[Guest]

Interesting. I sometimes use the Pimsleur method to learn languages, at least temporarily, prior to a major trip in a country. Vocabulary can be a challenge, but I always get the pronunciation right. Whether in China, Turkey, or Russia, at least I get compliments that "Your pronunciation is very good."

[+ friendofsheila]

As a long time reader of Miss Manners, I applaud this. It puts no onus on your friend or on the people addressing you. @friendofsheila , if I remember correctly you're also a Miss Manners devotee; what do you think?

 

Nice of you to ask, PB.

 

How about if Unicorn asked his friend, "I want to be sure to include you in the conversation. How could I reply to them to do this?"