Jump to content

Safe vs. bare


John
This topic is 1102 days old and is no longer open for new replies.  Replies are automatically disabled after two years of inactivity.  Please create a new topic instead of posting here.  

Recommended Posts

Practices are changing, at least in Berlin where I do most of my hiring.

In the past an escort who refused to wear a condom was rare. Those that offered bare charged more for it. Now virtually every escort will do bare and a disconcertingly large number refuse dates when condoms are required. I now feel that insisting on a condom greatly reduces the number of available escorts and disappoints most of the others. The arguments are "I'm negative and on prep" and "I'm undetectable."

The change seems to have accelerated after Prep became available through the government health insurance plans. Those willing to wear condoms are mostly from Latin America or southern or eastern Europe.

What do you all encounter in the US and what do you do?

(please, I am not asking WHY you do it, just WHAT you do)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 173
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It‘s always one of the first questions I ask. I’ve never had anyone say condom use was a dealbreaker. I was interested in a provider whose posting stated he had a latex allergy and therefore was bare only. I didn’t contact him.

 

My usual provider is on Prep. He’s never argued against or said anything about my preference for condoms. If he hosts, they’re always there. And if I host, they’re always there. Either way, he reaches one for one at the moment of truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It‘s always one of the first questions I ask. I’ve never had anyone say condom use was a dealbreaker. I was interested in a provider whose posting stated he had a latex allergy and therefore was bare only. I didn’t contact him.

 

My usual provider is on Prep. He’s never argued against or said anything about my preference for condoms. If he hosts, they’re always there. And if I host, they’re always there. Either way, he reaches one for one at the moment of truth.

Given the blood vessel structure of the penis, fucking bare until the moment of truth is notban effective strategy against HIV & STDs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In retrospect, I may have been unclear here.

 

Moment of truth refers to insertion, not climax.

 

Until you responded, I had no idea what @Wanderoz was talking about. :) I knew exactly what you meant by "moment of truth," though. Funny how folks can read the same thing and understand it completely differently.

 

I noticed that here in the U.S., escorts seem to be much more open to not using condoms since the advent of PrEP, but they usually frame it as an option for the client to decide. So, I don't know if I've ever seen an ad where an escort states that he won't use condoms. I've only seen one ad even close to that, where the guy, who lists as versatile, said that he insists on BB when he tops due to sensitivity issues, which I find understandable. Different strokes, I guess (pun intended).

 

P.S., should this thread be in the Lounge because it doesn't really ask about an escort? Or is it fine here in the Deli because it discusses escorts' practices generally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Practices are changing, at least in Berlin where I do most of my hiring.

In the past an escort who refused to wear a condom was rare. Those that offered bare charged more for it. Now virtually every escort will do bare and a disconcertingly large number refuse dates when condoms are required. I now feel that insisting on a condom greatly reduces the number of available escorts and disappoints most of the others. The arguments are "I'm negative and on prep" and "I'm undetectable."

The change seems to have accelerated after Prep became available through the government health insurance plans. Those willing to wear condoms are mostly from Latin America or southern or eastern Europe.

What do you all encounter in the US and what do you do?

(please, I am not asking WHY you do it, just WHAT you do)

 

PrEP changed things, before BB with an escort, hookup or date was an act of madness... yet some fell for it.

 

In Brazil PrEP is common, I'm not surprised in Eastern Europe is still hard to get because if you take it you are assumed to be gay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's precisely what I don't understand about the whole bareback obsession.

 

Notwithstanding certain outliers, I wouldn't call barebacking an obsession, although I know some guys may have something akin to a fetish for it. There are plenty of fetishes that I don't understand, and which I might find to engender too great of a risk to physical or mental health/safety, so I won't judge those guys who happen to like this particular one.

 

PrEP doesn't offer protection against other STIs, but then again, no safer sex practice offers 100% protection against any STI in particular, much less all of them. That being said, PrEP's protection rate against HIV, if used consistently and correctly, is stunningly high (up to 99% effective, if memory serves), well exceeding that of condom usage. For some folks, taking one pill a day is easier to do on a consistent basis than using a condom for every sexual episode. If someone is most concerned about HIV, then it's far from irrational to choose to bareback if the chance of getting another STI is well within his tolerance level, even if that's not the choice some of us would make.

 

I've said this before, but I recall past discussions on this board when quite a few members pilloried those escorts who refused to go bare for oral sex. Obviously, for those members, unprotected oral sex was within their risk tolerance levels, despite the fact that it's low risk for HIV transmission, but not so much for other STIs that either require mere skin-to-skin contact, or stem from viruses or bacteria which are less vulnerable to the elements. (HIV doesn't survive long outside of bodily fluids, making it relatively less than ideal, at least as far as pathogens go). In short, oral sex exposes us to all kinds of STIs, like chlamydia, herpes, gonorrhea, warts, etc. Heck, rimming and even kissing can expose us to all of that and more (hello, mononucleosis, influenza, and the common cold). Yet, we'd call folks morons for allowing a "raw cock" inside one orifice, but those who allow the same inside another orifice are just fine?

 

None of us can ever truly know our partners' sexual conduct and adherence to safer sex practices, past or present. But if one is on PrEP and adherent h/she must get regular STI screenings (supposed to be every 3 months at minimum) in order to qualify for the prescription renewal. So, that person is more likely than your average random sex partner to have other STIs detected early and treated/eliminated. There's nothing unreasonable about incorporating that into one's risk tolerance calculus, even if, again, some of us might choose a different strategy.

 

For sex workers, using PrEP as a supplement to, or even as the primary method of, their safer sex practices (given its very high rate of effectiveness) is just one of several legitimate and responsible ways to navigate the potential hazards of their profession. The same goes for clients. It'd be wonderful if we could try to understand and respect one another's viewpoints and lived experiences without resorting to pejoratives or insulting memes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One's reasoning could be that daily PrEP prevents HIV (99%). Others are treatable with medicine. So, no reason to use condom if one does not prefer it. As simple as that.

 

Unfortunately BB increases the chances of catching those diseases which not always have symptoms.

 

If we had kept using condoms when HIV became survivable with medicines it would be gone now, unfortunately it's still among us because of our own behavior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PrEP is a boon to preventing the spread of HIV. It would be irresponsible for an escort to not protect himself by using PrEP. But as a client, you can never be certain about an escort's status, the meds he's taking, or whether he's following the protocol precisely and religiously. As a client, you CAN tell whether an escort is using a condom.

 

Also, while other STI's are treatable, they can cause damage and if left untreated become severe.

 

PrEP doesn't render condoms useless, and condoms don't render PrEP unnecessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer to use condoms. I’ve noticed escorts lately blame condoms as an excuse for not being able to stay rock hard. “It’s so much easier bare.”

Except that is actually true for many people.

 

I'm a bit stunned by the title of the thread. "Safe vs. Bare" is a non sequitur. There is no "safe," only safer.

 

That said, treatment for some of the STI's that PrEP doesn't prevent is neither easy nor cheap, and some of them cause a certain amount of suffering and pain while active (aǹd require celibacy until treated), have treatments that take awhile, and/or are asymptomatic and will only be caught through screening, which itself takes time and effort to do. Color me skeptical of whether someone for whom condoms are too much of a bother will actually get tested as often as they should.

 

That doesn't mean someone can't decide the risks are worth it; I'm just skeptical people are actually weighing the risks with detachment. We draw lines in different places and we each get to live with our own choices.

Edited by quoththeraven
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I prefer to use condoms. I’ve noticed escorts lately blame condoms as an excuse for not being able to stay rock hard. “It’s so much easier bare.”

 

I'm sure specially if in 99% of the cases they're not physically attracted to their client. I've always put the condom at the last minute, I remember dating guys who once I was seated on the bed with the condom on would wonder: "where are my poppers?'', etc. So annoying!

 

I use condoms and it's definitely true for me that it's more difficult to stay erect with them. And there's certainly less sensation.

 

Without a doubt it feels better yet for many years till PrEP became popular not wearing a condom was an act of insanity...

 

I use condoms but with providers I know well, who have their shit together, and who show me their results I don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...