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soliciation on line against the law?


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Guest craigrc

Online Solicitation

 

For the record, in most U.S. jurisdictions asking someone to perform sex acts for money or offering to perform sex acts for money is a crime. That is true whether the said actions occur in public or in private and no matter what means of communication is used. With regard to communication online, prosecution can occur in the place where either of the participants is located.

 

It is not surprising that people who make money from prostitution or those of us who sometimes patronize prostitutes feel that police should spend their time on something other than enforcing the laws against prostitution. The fact remains, however, that the great majority of the voters don't agree, and enforcement actions of various kinds are not going to stop. If one is going to engage in this sort of activity one needs to accept the risks that go along with it -- or just don't do it.

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RE: Online Solicitation

 

You're right Craig but don't you think that there are more important things cops could be spending tax payers dollars on?

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Guest craigrc

RE: Online Solicitation

 

Well, Sean, I think it depends on one's point of view. I know several dedicated and sincere social workers who think that prostitution should be ruthlessly stamped out because they have encountered a lot of young male and female prostitutes who have been abused by pimps or johns or who have contracted serious STDs or both.

 

If you told them that these problems have nothing to do with upscale escorts like yourself, they would probably say that they don't care. They would probably say that people who have the ability to be upscale escorts also have the ability to get legitimate jobs that can support them, while teenage runaways don't have that ability. They would probably say that the teenagers should not be locked up, but that the police should harrass johns to the point that no one would even think about hiring a prostitute for fear of being caught in a police sting.

 

I also know people whose religious beliefs include a belief that prostitution is a great sin and is morally degrading to anyone involved in it and that the police should make every effort to end it. I don't think they would be impressed by the argument that prostitution arrests don't produce fines large enough to pay for the man-hours involved or that police should focus on more serious offenses. I think they would probably point to Giuliani's policy of having police cite people for minor "quality of life" offenses and remind us that it has often led to the arrest of people who turned out to be involved in much more serious crimes, which is quite true. While Matt Adams may believe that anyone who has moral objections to prostitution is a hypocrite, I know a number of people whose beliefs in that regard are quite sincere. I guess he just doesn't get out enough.

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RE: Online Solicitation

 

Craig, While I totally understand your point of view on the subject I also feel that you've gone off track a bit. I too am against teenage children running away from home and turning to prostitution. Its very dangerous on the streets and God knows what type of individuals these kids are picking up. The horror stories I've heard from some of the kids has caused me to on occasion take them into my home and give them a place to stay and keep them off the streets. I even employ a couple of them. Gardening and housekeeping and so forth for free room and board. There are class's of prostitution and I feel as I am sure many do that the type of prostitution that goes on on line is a different class than that of a teenager on the streets turning 40 dollar tricks. This I feel tax dollars are well spent to prevent. But going after upscale Escorts that are not causing anyone any harm is wrong. Also anyone who hires Escorts that turn around and have morality issues is a hypocrite in my view.

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Guest craigrc

RE: Online Solicitation

 

Sean, you seem to have had a bit of a problem reading my post. Specifically, you seem to have confused the opinions of others that I described with my opinions. Nowhere in my post did I say that the opinions I described are the same as mine. Instead, I specifically and repeatedly stated that they are the opinions of other people whom I know. I do not necessarily share those opinions, but I believe I understand them well enough to explain them. My purpose in doing so is to demonstrate that there are people who have what they believe are sound and valid reasons for opposing prostitution. Reading many of the comments in this thread would give one the impression that the only people who want to see anti-prostitution laws enforced are either fools or hypocrites. But that isn't the case.

 

I believe I've already dealt with your argument about the differences between upscale prostitutes and teenage runaways. To recap, the social workers I know feel that prostitution should be ended (mainly by pressuring johns) so that teenage runaways will be protected from the problems it involves. That ending prostitution would cut into the income of people like yourself would, I think, seem to them a sacrifice well worth making.

 

As for the hypocracy argument, I know plenty of people whose religious beliefs are such that if you gave them a choice between touching a prostitute and having their hands chopped off, they would have to think long and hard before giving you an answer. You and I may or may not agree with their views, but we cannot accuse them of being hypocrites.

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RE: Online Solicitation

 

But, Craig, it does matter what you think. For instance, with all of the changes that time has made in public mores lately, including the indulging of an American (as opposed to French and maybe even English) head of state in something that most are willing to admit doesn't rightly concern us, why are you seeming to assume that there will never come a time when escorting is legalized? If we all work for it, there is a much better chance of it happening than if we all sit around playing tiddlywinks. In fact, there is already a section of London, if I am not mistaken, where it is legal to be a prostitute, it is just illegal to sell it on the street. Have a long dinner with your social worker friends and try to change their minds, please. Go in there with respect for your own ideas and lifestyle as well as for theirs, and go in there armed with as many facts as you can get your hands on, and maybe the day when we are free to be ourselves will come a little sooner.

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Guest craigrc

RE: Online Solicitation

 

Sean, think nothing of it.

 

B, your post assumes that your agenda and mine are the same. That isn't true. I have no great desire to see prostitution legalized -- it wouldn't have much impact on my life, and frankly I'm not sure it would be in society's best interest. I'm no genius, but I'm not foolish enough to believe that whatever pleases me is also best for everyone else.

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RE: Online Solicitation

 

No, but what pleases you best pleases you best. And if you don't speak up for yourself, who will? And if someone else does, will you stand in their way? Up to my last posting, I was only in a position to assume that you and I felt somewhat the same on this one item on our agendas, since I found your posting here and you had made a point of saying what everyone except yourself thought on the matter. Please excuse what may have seemed to you like my arrogance.

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Guest Tampa Yankee

RE: Online Solicitation

 

LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-00 AT 11:49AM (EST)[p]craigrc,

 

A thought in response to the social worker view you presented --

 

>I believe I've already dealt with

>your argument about the differences

>between upscale prostitutes and teenage

>runaways. To recap, the

>social workers I know feel

>that prostitution should be ended

>(mainly by pressuring johns) so

>that teenage runaways will be

>protected from the problems it

>involves. That ending prostitution

>would cut into the income

>of people like yourself would,

>I think, seem to them

>a sacrifice well worth making.

>

 

 

Time and again it has been shown that the better way to deal practically with issues of this sort is to legalize and regulate the activity. Legalization brings it out into the light of day where undesirable elements are reluctant to tread (e.g. pimps, organized crime, etc.) or can be dealt with -- pretty much destroying the black market in sex. Legalization along with strong penalties for engaging under-age people would probably do a lot to address the social workers concern about teenage runaways -- if that was their sole concern. Who in their right mind would engage an illegal under age runaway for sex knowing there would be a high penalty to pay if caught, when young legal escorts are available -- only those who already risk the penalty (pedofiles), I suspect.

 

Also, legalization would impose strict health standards on the activity, and the health issue is probably the single most important issue related to the sex business.

 

So in the end I believe that the social worker attitude/solution is not values free -- they want not only a solution but a specific solution. The sad fact is that solution is beyond reach as demonstrated by 10,000 years of human history -- consequently they will continue on with their concerns, fighting at best a holding action if not a loosing battle. At the same time the freedom of individual adults who wish to engage in consenting activities will continue to be abridged or those individuals put at risk for, what seems to me, a loosing cause with ultimate detriment to society in practical ways.

 

BTW, I applaud the goals of most of our social workers, just not the methods of our society which I think are doomed to failure in the long run, as long as people remain subject to the human condition and the economic cycle exists.

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Guest craigrc

RE: Online Solicitation

 

T.Y., I have no intention of getting into an argument with my friends about legalizing prostitution, since it's not an issue of great importance to me. I mentioned their views on the subject because I thought the comments in this thread were so slanted in the other direction that a false impression of the issue was being conveyed. Since we've departed from the original purpose of this thread, I don't propose to say anything further on the subject here. If you'd like to start your own thread on this issue, I'll be happy to take a look at it.

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Guest AsswithClass

First of all, I am bi, not gay. But even so, you don't understand why I can be a Republican, because you don't fully understand what being a Republican means. You get 99% of your information from the mass media, which is 99% biased in favor of liberals, and take delight in distorting and hiding the truth. Republicans aren't the ogres the media would have you believe; we believe in people more than government, and personal freedom. The U.S. Constitution is a conservative document, not liberal.

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Oh, you're "bi". Well that changes everything, doesn't it?

 

As for 99% of what is presented in the mass media being liberal....didn't do well in statistics, eh? But excelled in paranoia, no doubt.

 

I am neither Republican or Democrat, rather choosing to cast my vote based on the issues and how a candidate addresses them. I realize the Republican core is to have less government interference in our lives. But regarding "personal freedom". Is that the personal freedom to live my life as who I am without fear of discrimination or is it the personal freedom of some to discriminate against anyone not like themselves? That part always confuses me.

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RE: Online Solicitation

 

Ever have the feeling that something must be said but you don't know what and you hope that really nobody will say anything and it will all go away? Has anyone picked up on the news yet that the Vice-President of Stagecoach UK was arrested in a sting in the Houston Omni Hotel (a fairly swank joint) as part of a police sting operation, where the officers were posing as a gay escort agency? He might be only being fined $500 over it, but he did lose his job. Remember, that Scotsman who fought the repealing of the law that doesn't let teachers support gay high school students? That seems to have been his immediate superior! It really bothers me that the Houston police are involved in such a stupid operation. Talk about the city shooting itself in the foot, just when a lot of other cities are starting to pay a lot of attention to gay tourism. Being on probation myself, I guess I really can't even write to my city representatives. I am really upset enough to want to yell about it, but I don't want y'all to start staying away from here. So I am burying this this far down on this basically related, basically dead thread, hoping only a select few might see it.

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